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Thread: How can you win when the whistle literally doesn't blow? (heartbreaking)

  1. #21
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    Quote RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
    Raptors couldn't execute, but if refs had called some, we would've won, but margin would've been tiny.

    If Raptors executed, not to mention calls coming our way, we're looking at a possible double-digit deficit for Charlotte. I mean, at the end of the day, Toronto didn't make those winning plays, but the refs didn't let us make them as well.

    Refs are to blame for those terrible non-calls late, but Toronto should not have been that close to start relying on the whistle. Wins come from 4 great quarters of basketball, not 2 great ones, an average one, and an invisible one. You can't win being inconsistent, and that goes to players (Bargnani, Calderon's D), and coaches (rotations, accountability, WINNING PLAYS.)

    Blame the refs all you want, yes they made some terrible calls, but Toronto should not have lost this game tonight, it's all on them. It's easy to argue, "well, the referees are to make the game fair," but basketball is basketball, referees aren't playing.
    Sorry this is basketball, and a lot of basketball games are close by their very nature. Currently the Raptors have shot 72 less free throws then the teams they've played against. Maybe if this team was Miami or Boston or OKC we wouldn't need the refs to be fair, but for every other team in the league that's pretty much a must. With the free throw differential we currently start with a 6 point deficit in every game we play. Don't tell me that isn't consequential.

  2. #22
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    and this is part of it to. The refs aren't going to bail a team out who is taking (chucking) bad shots in the final seconds of a one point game.

    I'm also curious how many people saw the foul on Bargnani before they had the privilege of a close up slow motion instant replay? I know I didn't. And before anyone says "there was obviously a foul because the shot was so short", the refs aren't deciding a game based on an assumption of how uncharacteristic a shot looks.
    I am of the belief that the games should be officiated as fairly and as consistently as possible. Do I blame the refs for some of our losses? Tough to say. I agree with many posters here that there are many other elements to many of the games that you can look at as contributing factors. But what I do get frustrated with is the seemingly similar calls that get whistled at one end and not at the other. The one that sticks out to me this season the most is the principle of verticality calls. Last night Mullens and Haywood would jump with one of our players making contact and no whistle, the same play at the other with JV or Amir is called repeatedly. And in fact is the call that allowed the Cats to tie the game last night. I am encouraged that the boys are fighting hard this year and last night was no different. After that Cats run to start the 4th I felt as though fatigue and the disappointment of many close losses was showing and that the Raps were going to fold, but they fought back and had several chances to win the game. I hope they are able to win a few of these close games and get some confidence going.

  3. #23
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    Quote DirtyMikeSeaver wrote: View Post
    Two things:

    1. As one of my former coaches told me: Never leave the game in the hands of the refs. Once you start doing that, you've already lost.

    2. Free Throw Attempts Per Game:

    DeMar DeRozan - 5.8
    Kyle Lowry - 5.2
    LeBron James - 5.4
    Chris Paul - 4.9
    Dwayne Wade - 4.3

    Even Andrea averages more FTs per game than guys like Joe Johnson, Pau Gasol and Al Jefferson. The Raps should stop complaining and start hitting their freebies.
    And yet as a team we have shot 72 less free throws in the games so far. That's an average of six less free throws a game. Let's deal with the stats that matter here.

  4. #24
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    Quote DirtyMikeSeaver wrote: View Post
    Two things:

    1. As one of my former coaches told me: Never leave the game in the hands of the refs. Once you start doing that, you've already lost.

    2. Free Throw Attempts Per Game:

    DeMar DeRozan - 5.8
    Kyle Lowry - 5.2
    LeBron James - 5.4
    Chris Paul - 4.9
    Dwayne Wade - 4.3

    Even Andrea averages more FTs per game than guys like Joe Johnson, Pau Gasol and Al Jefferson. The Raps should stop complaining and start hitting their freebies.
    There are such things as consequential and inconsequential free throws in basketball. If DD gets hacked in the 3rd quarter when we're up by 10 and goes to the line, but then when we're down by 1 in the 4th and he doesn't get the call...it doesn't really matter what the average is it's when the guy gets the call. If casey calls a play for DD to take it to the basket at the end of the game and we don't get that call then this stat doesn't really matter.

    At the same time, we have shot something like 60% in the past couple of games and this was the difference. Demar missed a key free throw last night when he did get the call, and lowry missed 2 the night before at a key point. When all is said and done, if we shot 80% from the line we would have won the last two games

  5. #25
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    I agree that our free throw shooting has been terrible, and that was probably the deciding factor.

    But i dont buy into this whole " they never should have let the refs decide it" or " one free throw doesnt make the difference"

    All 30 teams are professional teams, large margin wins occur when one team isnt playing at their best. Tight games are going to happen and a foul is a foul.

    And im not so upset over the missed call on bargnani, but the touch fouls given to the raptors and the no calls on the other end infuriate me. I have been the biggest defender of officials in the past, its probably the toughest sport to officiate. BUT there is no excuse for the inconsistencies in the whistles.

  6. #26
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    Quote DirtyMikeSeaver wrote: View Post
    Two things:

    1. As one of my former coaches told me: Never leave the game in the hands of the refs. Once you start doing that, you've already lost.

    2. Free Throw Attempts Per Game:

    DeMar DeRozan - 5.8
    Kyle Lowry - 5.2
    LeBron James - 5.4
    Chris Paul - 4.9
    Dwayne Wade - 4.3

    Even Andrea averages more FTs per game than guys like Joe Johnson, Pau Gasol and Al Jefferson. The Raps should stop complaining and start hitting their freebies.
    Only one issue with this, if the a guy leads the league in FTA, how can he seemingly not have the respect of the referees? As far as hitting FT's I agree whole heartedly.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    Quote SitnonDfence wrote: View Post
    Only one issue with this, if the a guy leads the league in FTA, how can he seemingly not have the respect of the referees? As far as hitting FT's I agree whole heartedly.

    Derozan has too few FT at the end of games. Makes no sense considering that is when everyone is in the bonus and he is good at getting tot the line.

    This has been an ongoing problem for him. Lots of free throws in the first 3 quarters, none in the final minutes.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    Bryan needs to stop shopping for shirts, and get a former official on the payroll to watch and create a report for the league with regards to this situation.


    I don't like pointing fingers at the refs either, but I am seeing too many missed calls at the end of games. Saddly, Derozan gets the short end of the stick most of the time.

    You nullify our best penetrator for the last couple of minutes, and our shot at winning is slim to none.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Not saying that the refs didn't screw up and cost us a game yesterday, but the argument about our opposition getting 72 more calls than we did may have something to do with the fact that besides DeMar we dont have anyone going to the rim. Lowry was out for a bunch of games, Jose doesn't penetrate and AB just sits at the 3 point line. That leaves DeMar and JV to do all the work in the paint where fouls happen most often.

  10. #30
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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    I don't like pointing fingers at the refs either, but I am seeing too many missed calls at the end of games. Saddly, Derozan gets the short end of the stick most of the time.

    You nullify our best penetrator for the last couple of minutes, and our shot at winning is slim to none.
    +1.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Starter themasao's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    and this is part of it to. The refs aren't going to bail a team out who is taking (chucking) bad shots in the final seconds of a one point game.

    I'm also curious how many people saw the foul on Bargnani before they had the privilege of a close up slow motion instant replay? I know I didn't. And before anyone says "there was obviously a foul because the shot was so short", the refs aren't deciding a game based on an assumption of how uncharacteristic a shot looks.
    I've been thinking a lot about both these points since last night's dissapointment.

    Here's my take:

    1. I agree that Refs shouldn't take matters into their own hands at the end of the game, especially when a team has been scrapping together a bunch of panic shots in the last few seconds. It was basically spray and pray, and if they had called a foul on a shot where the contact was incidental and where the shot would have still had a chance to go in, it would have been questionable (see: Derozan's game tying dunk in overtime against Utah. He was clearly hacked, but it was completely incidental to the shot going in, and I can at least understand why the whistle wasn't blown).

    The foul on Bargs was something different altogether. When you take a jumpshot, and two people literally slap your arm, it doesn't matter how talented you are, the ball has NO chance of going in. So when the refs stay silent on a play like that, they change the game in a substantial way - they actually do the opposite of what they inted to by staying silent. They don't want to 'decide' the game, but by allowing a team to completely nullify a shot by fouling, they actually DO decide the game.

    2. I, like you, didn't see the foul the first time. But that's not because it wasn't in slow motion, it's because the camera was stationed in the 500 section panning from the opposite side of the court. The baseline ref was five feet from the action. When you consider that Bargnani is 7 feet tall and his hand probably extends to like 9 feet, there is no way that refs vision could have been obstructed. And what else could he have been looking at? So, no, I didn't see the foul before the replay; but you can be SURE the ref did.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic All-Star enlightenment's Avatar
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    I saw the foul immediately, and in every subsequent angle.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Starter themasao's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    I saw the foul immediately, and in every subsequent angle.
    fair enough. I was facepalming a lot in the last few minutes so it's possible my eyes were covered at the time.

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