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Thread: The Toronto Media advises us not to panic. Are the Raptors where they need to be?

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    Raptors Republic Rookie panagnos's Avatar
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    Default The Toronto Media advises us not to panic. Are the Raptors where they need to be?

    After reading Doug Smith’s blog this morning I felt compelled to write and respond to his assessment that the Raptors are where they should be. His advice is that we all “need to chill”. Not should, not may but need.

    Although I appreciate Mr. Smith’s blog and insight he has provided over the years about the Raptors I believe that he has been drinking the Brian Colangelo cool-aid for far too long. I am also surprised that someone with his credentials and experience does not offer more insight and some reasonable suggestions but merely proposes that the Fans need to chill about the current state of the Raptors.

    In his blog today he challenges us to prove to him that we thought that the Raptors should be scraping to get into the 8th and final playoff spot.

    So, are the Raptors where they need to be? No they are not. Scraping to get into the 8th playoff spot this year was a realistic expectation for a team that has not been there the past 4 years. This is not merely my opinion but the expectation of many long standing Raptor fans and bloggers for this year.
    Everyone has lamented (including me) if it is time to trade Bargnani. I have been advocating about a Bargnani trade since last year. I do not necessarily think that he is a horrible player and for 13 games last year I thought he had finally realized his potential. He is a very capable player and we should not dismiss this fact. What we need to look at is if he’s still the player the Raptors need in Casey’s system.
    Casey’s defensive system is predicated on a strong defensive center presence. The reason the Raptors improved last year so drastically on defense is because Bargnani (on the games he played in) along with Aaron Gray and Amir Johnson provided a strong center presence when they played the position.

    This year with the arrival of Valanciounas, Bargnani has looked out of place on defense. On most defensive possessions he seems lost and does not know where to rotate. Here are five reasons why Colangelo should trade Bargnani as soon as possible:


    1. Trading Bargnani will accelerate Valanciounas’ growth. The young center can benefit from a defensive minded power-forward and will get to improve his offence much quicker with more shots available to go around.
    2. Demar DeRosan will be given the chance to emerge as the Raptor’s offensive leader. He has already rounded out his game this year. The next step is to become the Raptors leading scorer.
    3. Ed Davis will get more minutes and will emerge as one of the Raptors best players of the bench
    4. The Raptors will become a top 5 defensive team by the end of the year
    5. Training Bargnani will give this franchise an opportunity to start fresh. We can longer wait for Bargnani to arrive. He never will while in Toronto.


    Now you probably ask who you trade for Bargnani. I would go with Pau Gasol for Bargnani and Amir Johnson. Although the Lakers might be more inclined to take Fields instead of A. Johnson, who was a great fit in D’Antoni’s system while in New York. This trade would not be feasible until late December.

    Regardless of where the Raptors finish this year after a trade they would be able to improve and make a run at the playoffs next year with Gasol as the PF. The year after next they would also have $20M coming off the books when Gasol’s contract expires and they would be primed to make a significant free agent addition.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie alexaussie's Avatar
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    We are totally where we need to be!
    3-12 with regression in just about every aspect? Who wouldn't love that!

    #Sarcasm
    Biggest Raptors fan from the Land Down Under

    @alexhaggispinch

    Toronto Raptors
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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Doug Smith doesn't drink the kool-aid. He makes the kool-aid.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Your first issue is wasting your time reading Doug Smith.

    Second, it wasn't fans talking about playoffs it was Colangelo and Casey. I expected this team to be garbage, so I'm not surprised but that doesn't mean that Colangelo and company get a pass. I'm holding them to their words as should all fans.

    Where they should be. Bullshit. If Colangelo thought this was a high lottery team he wouldn't have traded that pick for Lowry. Or signed Fields. This roster was built to compete. Sad as that seems.

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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Your first issue is wasting your time reading Doug Smith.

    Second, it wasn't fans talking about playoffs it was Colangelo and Casey. I expected this team to be garbage, so I'm not surprised but that doesn't mean that Colangelo and company get a pass. I'm holding them to their words as should all fans.

    Where they should be. Bullshit. If Colangelo thought this was a high lottery team he wouldn't have traded that pick for Lowry. Or signed Fields. This roster was built to compete. Sad as that seems.
    In agreement.

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    Yes .

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    I really don't understand this. DD is a much better player than he was, even a year ago. Ross now looks promising. Lowry is a very solid pg adjusting to a new team. Ed looks much better and V is the real deal.

    Some of the losses have been infuriating. The rotations have boggled the mind, bargs is completely selfish and infuriating. But... Teams do need to learn how to win close games. Particularly young teams. My expectations for this team was to win 30-40 games and hopefully challenge for the 8th spot. I also think that is still possible, and really I'll settle for them PLAYING like a playoff team by year end, even if they don't make it, as long as they grow.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    By the way, Grange was spewing similar nonsense on twitter last night. The MLSE PR department must have given them their talking points yesterday.

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    just a quick question some one tell what derozan has done statisticaly to deserve that new found respect the numbers are about the same the only difference is 0.4 in passing and about a rebound more u need to show it to me because i dont see it

    DD got 37 points on 16 of 33 vs the jazz
    dd got 29 points on 11 of 28 vs spurs

    two of his best games sooo

    i just think we don't have that player

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    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote ab7 wrote: View Post
    just a quick question some one tell what derozan has done statisticaly to deserve that new found respect the numbers are about the same the only difference is 0.4 in passing and about a rebound more u need to show it to me because i dont see it

    DD got 37 points on 16 of 33 vs the jazz
    dd got 29 points on 11 of 28 vs spurs

    two of his best games sooo

    i just think we don't have that player
    I'd rather have him then bargnani. Bargnani needs to go ASAP

  11. #11
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    No one is saying that DeMar is the answer, but, he plays defense and tries to rebounds which makes him a usable piece.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Jkwasia's Avatar
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    He has been the Raps best player which isnt saying much .....but if he actually got the 15 or so fouls that was committed on him those numbers would look a lot better .....and anything is better the primo pasta period

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    well-written. you should take over the toronto star raptor piece. doug smith never has any worthwhile insight just excuses,

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    I don't think BC getting fired is panicking. The Raptors are not where they are supposed to be after bringing in the players they acquired. they are pretty healthy and still are lackluster team, 3-13 is what i would expect from a team like the Wizards with no John Wall ..I am not saying put the team on a fire sell but BC has led this team down the wrong path, I do not blame the players or Casey that much.

    BC has had this job way too long, and in a weak Eastern Conference and division for many years he got us to the playoffs once, that is sad.

    I also won't buy the rebuilding card, we made the playoffs in 2006-2007, and by then the rebuilding period was over. He tried to speed it up by acquiring Jermaine O'neal and it has been downhill ever since. Fine we lose Bosh, well then that gives cap space for another free agent, and a high draft pick, yet we might not rebuild through the draft if we keep trading away first round picks.

    I didn't expect them to be a playoff team or anything but i did expect progress, I am a bit concerned that they are better on paper yet have played as poorly as last years Raptors.

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    Just because fans have higher expectations for the season doesn't mean that those expectations are realistic or should set the bar.

    I'd like to point out that oddsmakers (who, despite what you may think, know a shitload more about professional sports and about the NBA than any of us posting here do) put the Raps between about 32 and 34 wins across many books.

    So who do you think had the more realistic expectations, the people who make billions of dollars taking money from people with high expectations, or the fans?

    http://www.beyondthebets.com/odds-co...s-sportsbooks/

    It's early in the season, the schedule has been rough and the team isn't performing up to par, but so what? Why does this season matter aside from development? Let things play out, if they're still in the basement at the all-star break and haven't shown signs of improving, then you can argue for drastic changes. Until then, any knee-jerk reactions are just going to set the team back further.
    Last edited by Lark Benson; Thu Nov 29th, 2012 at 03:17 AM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    Just because fans have higher expectations for the season doesn't mean that those expectations are realistic or should set the bar.

    I'd like to point out that oddsmakers (who, despite what you may think, know a shitload more about professional sports and about the NBA than any of us posting here do) put the Raps between about 32 and 34 wins across many books.

    So who do you think had the more realistic expectations, the people who make billions of dollars taking money from people with high expectations, or the fans?

    http://www.beyondthebets.com/odds-co...s-sportsbooks/

    It's early in the season, the schedule has been rough and the team isn't performing up to par, but so what? Why does this season matter aside from development? Let things play out, if they're still in the basement at the all-star break and haven't shown signs of improving, then you can argue for drastic changes. Until then, any knee-jerk reactions are just going to set the team back further.
    I don't think the problem is with fans expectations so much as it is with this organization expectations. Fans will always give you a wide spectrum of opinions based on a myraid of different things.

    This offseason and towards the end of last season Colangelo not only made statements in attempt to raise excitment about the team (accelerated rebuild, goal of the playoffs etc), but made moves with the clear indication he was expected a relative level of success (playoffs).

    I don't think firing or replacing Colangelo (or other significant moves such as trading Bargnani) is a knee jerk reaction. This is the 2nd time he, for lack of another term, has been on the chopping block (atleast the fans). To others he was a mistake to resign the first time. At the very least he is coming up to the end of his 2nd chance. If MLSE (Bell/Rogers) begins to think replacing him is a good idea, it may be just as good to let him go rather than keep a lame duck GM. In general change has been a long time in coming, actually starting to make that necessary change after 4+ years is not knee jerk. Its a slow and steady deterioration of knee.

    As for the odds maker I think its important to remember their job isn't to get it right. Its to try and predict how wrong the public is willing to be. In gambling the house never needs to be right and they don't try to be. Now I don't think there is anything wrong with using their over-unders or spreads to get an unbias opinion of roughly what others think of the team, but its not a statement. Its a prediction of where they can draw the most bets.

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    Raptors Republic Starter c_bcm's Avatar
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    Just because fans have higher expectations for the season doesn't mean that those expectations are realistic or should set the bar.

    I'd like to point out that oddsmakers (who, despite what you may think, know a shitload more about professional sports and about the NBA than any of us posting here do) put the Raps between about 32 and 34 wins across many books.

    So who do you think had the more realistic expectations, the people who make billions of dollars taking money from people with high expectations, or the fans?

    http://www.beyondthebets.com/odds-co...s-sportsbooks/

    It's early in the season, the schedule has been rough and the team isn't performing up to par, but so what? Why does this season matter aside from development? Let things play out, if they're still in the basement at the all-star break and haven't shown signs of improving, then you can argue for drastic changes. Until then, any knee-jerk reactions are just going to set the team back further.
    Here here. I second this motion. Well-said Lark.

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    Doug Smith is so clueless about everything. His sources are garbage. A day or two before DeRozan got extended, he was like there's a 90% chance he won't be extended. Pathetic sports journalist.

    Can't believe only one guy has called Colangelo out.

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    Quote BD12 wrote: View Post
    Doug Smith is so clueless about everything. His sources are garbage. A day or two before DeRozan got extended, he was like there's a 90% chance he won't be extended. Pathetic sports journalist.

    Can't believe only one guy has called Colangelo out.
    doug smith has excellent sources, he has inside access to the raptors organization. Unfortunately, he's too stupid to separate the truth from the lies they feed him. It doesn't help that he has a very know it all attitude.

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    Default Doug Smith

    Doug Smith has zero credibility. He never criticizes the organization, no matter how bad things get. I think he associates a measured reaction with professionalism. Unfortunately, this really gets ridiculous at times.

    I vividly recall him defending the Vince Carter trade when it went down.
    "We can't judge the trade until we see what Babcock gets out of those draft picks" was his reasoning. Only years later, when Babcock is gone, does he admit the Raptors got fleeced.

    If the Raptors traded Valanciunas for Darko tomorrow, Dough Smith would defend Colangelo.
    "Let's wait and see" he would say. "You can't judge the trade for at least 20 games."

    I don't even have to read his blog to know what his reaction will be to even the most blatant mistakes on the part of management.
    "Fans need to calm down. Lets wait and see."
    Only in retrospect, when the guilty party has been fired, will he point out any failings.

    The facts that he spouts this stuff in an arrogant and patronizing tone just makes him even more unreadable.

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