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Thread: Lakers failing experiment - trades might be coming... with Toronto??

  1. #41
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    If a deal could land the Raptors a good, young SF to become part of the long-term core of this team, then I could bring myself to accept dealing away Bargnani & Calderon. However, I don't view Gasol as an improvement over Bargnani. He's much older, making way more money, much more injury prone (ie: bad knees) and clearly on the decline. The only way I would support a Bargnani/Calderon for Gasol trade, is if it's a multi-team deal that results in Gasol going someplace other than Toronto and a young stud SF (ie: Gay, Iguodala, Josh Smith) coming to Toronto.
    I had a post over in the trade proposal forum a couple days back, but I wonder if there's an opportunity for us to get Deng, with Gasol going to Chicago. We'd need to take Boozer in the process (who, despite his brutal contract, actually might be a decent fit here). I know Deng isn't quite in the same tier as Gay, but a starting unit of Lowry, DeRozan, Deng, Boozer, and Valanciunas would be pretty sweet. I think the Raptors have the assets to get it done.

  2. #42
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    I'm not sold on this type of deal. I can understand it, and it seems logical. In a lot of ways it makes complete sense for both the Lakers and the Raptors. Gasol would be a great piece to help Valanciunas develop, and his passing out of the post would really help with ball movement in the Raptors offense.

    My problem with this type of deal is that it uses the two best trade assets that we have and I'm not sure it makes us that much better...or gives the Raptors a very high ceiling. I have no idea how the Raptors could do better, but I would hope that they can. I suppose by 'better' I mean I would prefer pieces that would fit with the core that the Raptors are building.

    Although they have not been the most successful moves for BC, I have appreciated his efforts to take on high ceiling prospects who are needing a change of scenery: J. Johnson, Bayless, and even now Lowry (which is working out).

    Aminu, D. Williams, T. Evans (was not extended...), etc.

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    It's all funny for Raps fans though, because Bargs is a natural option for LA now that they're in the D'Antoni System. It would give them Howard and 4 shooters (ok, Artest is only a shooter on his good days). Now, there are certainly other options, but the thing about trades is there have to be 2 willing partners or more. I've heard some Josh Smith rumors, but fact is with his expiring contract, he's not going anywhere til at least the trade deadline, and then only if Atlanta's season is really down the crapper, like bottom 5 in the league. Otherwise, he'll play out hte season, become a FA, probably re-sign in Atlanta, and the Lakers won't be able to get him. Another name I've heard is Ryan Anderson. I don't think this makes much sense either though since NOH must think him an important piece. They wouldn't be a winning team with Pau, they're that bad. Unless LA takes Eric Gordon's bad knees and worse contract as well, LA isn't getting Anderson. They also won't want another typical big, like Boozer or something, that would just have similar problems.
    So unless LA really doesn't like Bargs, he may be one of the better offers out there for Gasol. Obviously there'd have to be other pieces involved, but maybe not that many. It's hard to imagine a team offering a surefire high pick for Gasol, so they'd probably only get picks from average-good teams, or future picks. It's hard to see LA trading for an unproven asset as well, so while bad teams may want Gasol, they may not have anything to really offer a team that wants to contend.
    You raise really good points.

    Stephen Brotherston's chat today was essentially 1) the Raptors don't want to get any younger, 2) JC/AB is too much for Gasol,

    Bill Ingram (he covers the Rockets) has a bit in HoopsWorld.com this evening:

    Enter the Houston Rockets. Well, re-enter the Rockets, as it were. The Rockets traded for Pau Gasol once before because they were looking for an All-Star front court player to get them out of the middle of the Western Conference pack, and they are still looking for that player. Sure, they have shipped out just about everyone who was on the team that acquired Gasol in a deal that was nixed by the NBA last year, but their new mix of players are very much like their last mix. They have a couple of star-quality pieces surrounded by a bunch of young, up-and-coming talents. If the Lakers were to re-initiate talks with Houston surrounding Gasol they could very likely land three younger, cheaper pieces who could help them right away.

    For all of their changes, the Rockets are still sitting in the middle of the Western Conference pack, on course to land the same #14 pick in the draft that they have had three years running. They need an impact front court player to break them out of that mold. Pau Gasol, meanwhile, is really at his best when he is the second option on a team. He wasn’t able to be the first option in Memphis, but as Kobe Bryant’s second he rose to champion status. There’s good reason to believe he could have similar success playing second to Houston’s James Harden.

    It’s too early to blow up the Lakers, but then it was too early to fire a head coach, too. Everything is accelerated when it comes to the world’s favorite NBA team, and the scrutiny of so many might just inspire the Lakers to pull the trigger on another franchise-changing trade.

    The Rockets would love nothing more than to be a part of that.

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-pm-are...-a-lost-cause/
    If I were making decisions in Toronto right now, I'd be trying to do everything possible to facilitate any trade between Houston and LA for Gasol. To make any trade for Gasol, Houston would have to send out about $11.6M in salary. Houston has interesting young pieces and expiring contracts. Some of those expiring contracts and young pieces should be sent to Toronto.

    Brotherston talks about Toronto not wanting to get any younger, but lets face it, this season is nearly lost in terms of making the playoffs barring a 5-0 road trip coming up. In my opinion there is no question Houston has better prospects (Jones, Machado, Motiejunas, Parsons) than this year's draft outside the top 2. This is a great year to not worry about the pick and to lose it.

    Toronto would be much better off developing the culture that was started last season - i.e. get back to grind it out, protect the paint, rebound, Casey-style ball. Throw big minutes to Ross and JV. Clear the PF log jam and clear the log jam that has developed on the wing - although the problem with the Raptors log jams especially on the wing is not a big enough difference in talent between starters and deep reserves (this, of course, is not a new problem in Toronto). Get more players that can grow with the pieces you want around for the next 5 years. Oh yeah, figure out who is worth keeping - we all know Bargnani is not.

    Keepers:

    PG: Lowry
    SG: DeRozan, Ross
    SF:
    PF: one of Amir/Davis
    C: JV

    To be determined:

    PG:
    SG:
    SF: Fields
    PF:
    C:

    Non-Keeper or does not matter:

    Everyone else.

    Back to Houston, take on their expiring contracts and get 2 young pieces. Motiejunas is #1 on my books followed very closely by Parsons. Machado might be nice. Terrence Jones would be another. If Casey wants shooters, Cook is a great one - and expiring. Houston taking on Gasol also eliminates a player in free agency this summer when there will be some great players available (Millsap?). Raptors can be a player in free agency if Bargnani and 1 of Amir/Kleiza/Fields is moved.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  4. #44
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Parsons is a guy i'd LOVE to acquire. he's criminally underrated and a pure Casey guy.
    @jerboat

  5. #45
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Just having fun:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cf4b4c3


    Solves all our problems eh?!
    Most pressing of which, getting Matt Bonner back here ;D
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

  6. #46
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    If I were making decisions in Toronto right now, I'd be trying to do everything possible to facilitate any trade between Houston and LA for Gasol. To make any trade for Gasol, Houston would have to send out about $11.6M in salary. Houston has interesting young pieces and expiring contracts. Some of those expiring contracts and young pieces should be sent to Toronto.
    this is also funny, because even though I'd prefer we get Gasol instead of facilitate a trade, either way it shows that we're in a position to shake things up, which we should (especially if our performance does not improve by a lot), since this roster is still largely young, but still could stand to cement the transition away from the old team. Houston would seriously have a hard time getting Gasol straight up, because they don't have a lot of proven assets that LA could rely on. Anyway, Toronto should be active, as even though there might still be hope for a competitive season, it's clear this roster still lacks talent and/or veteran leadership.

  7. #47
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    I do like that SA trade. But would SA go for it? There would have to be some picks going their way.

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic Starter Quirk's Avatar
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    Bargnani + Kleiza for Pau works on trade machine

  9. #49
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    Why would anyone trade both Calderon and Bargnani for Gasol.
    Great trade for LA .... not so much for TO.

  10. #50
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    I would trade Bargnani for a bag of balls, just to get out from under his contract and get the rest of our bigs more minutes on the court. If the Lakers would do it, I would pull the trigger on Gasol (plus maybe duhon?) for Calderon and Bargnani in an instant.

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic Starter KHD's Avatar
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    There is ZERO reason to trade bargnani "just to get out from under his contract". We can do that as we like with the Amnesty clause (at least for cap purposes). Therefore if we're going to trade Barg we won't be taking back any bad contracts or bad players.

  12. #52
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    You guys do know Bargnani is better than Pau right? why would we want Pau? ....

  13. #53
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    You guys do know Bargnani is better than Pau right? why would we want Pau? ....
    Better fit for the team moving forward.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  14. #54
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    Quote knickz wrote: View Post
    crzy how gasol helped enhance the lacy of the most overrated player in history and now they want him out of town #freepaugasol
    BINGO. Kobe owes one of his finals MVPs to Pau.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote phez wrote: View Post
    gasol would be almost 22 million dollar contract

    yep, sounds like he's raptors material!
    Well, better than a combined 20million for players who cant rebound, cant defend and cant inbound.

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    Quote koncept wrote: View Post
    honestly i'm all for getting rid of bargs. but calderon is a pretty valuable PG, i'd like to see another trade than this.
    Calderon is the Lebron James of the Raptors, and not in a good way.

    Jose plays good the first 3 quarters and totally loses his mojo in the 4th. Bad inbounds, bad passes, bad defense.

  18. #58
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    If a deal could land the Raptors a good, young SF to become part of the long-term core of this team, then I could bring myself to accept dealing away Bargnani & Calderon. However, I don't view Gasol as an improvement over Bargnani. He's much older, making way more money, much more injury prone (ie: bad knees) and clearly on the decline. The only way I would support a Bargnani/Calderon for Gasol trade, is if it's a multi-team deal that results in Gasol going someplace other than Toronto and a young stud SF (ie: Gay, Iguodala, Josh Smith) coming to Toronto.

    I just don't see Memphis trading away Gay (they have no use/room for Gasol, unless they flip Z-Bo in another trade), or Denver trading away Iguodala (they are building a good young team to really contend in the next 2-5 seasons, not in win-now mode). Rumors also swirled that said Atlanta turned down a straight-up Gasol/Smith trade, so that doesn't make much sense either (apparently they want to preserve cap space and keep Smith on roster, both to lure D12 in the offseason).

    I'm just not sure what other team(s) could be brought in to give Toronto a reason to pull the trigger on a deal like this.
    I think thats the most obvious need for the Raps right now, and even the 29 other GMs in the league know that the Raps are desperate for a legit SF. Im fairly sure BC has been working the phones to get a Gay/Iguodala/Granger calibre SF here but of course, if gas is scarce, gas stations are going to hike the price up.

    I think BC should do this trade. Get the team to win a couple of games to mask the need, downplay the need then try to work a trade for an SF. IMO, Gasol is a definite improvement over Bargnani. If JV was already playing to his potential, then Bargnani would be the perfect compliment to him, but right now, they still need that interior presence that Gasol can definitely provide.

    With Calderon, he is playing good and helping the team, but i think he's making it hard for Lowry to play his actual game. Not by fault of his own, but because Casey feels the need to give Calderon heavy minutes since he is orchestrating the offense well. Id rather put the ball in Lowry's hands and get him to work the offense.

  19. #59
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    There is ZERO reason to trade bargnani "just to get out from under his contract". We can do that as we like with the Amnesty clause (at least for cap purposes). Therefore if we're going to trade Barg we won't be taking back any bad contracts or bad players.
    I for one am not in favor of trading Bargnani to get away from his contract, im in favor of trading bargnani to get away from him, period. If there's a better deal that Colangelo can get for Bargnani than Gasol, then go for it. But if that is one of the very few, I'd take it. Contract wise, Gasol will be an expiring next year, which could be a good trade bait. Even at 32, Gasol is no lame duck. On a team like the Raps, easy 20-10. Would be a good mentor for JV, and not locker cancer.

    I dont get the reasoning behind "reasonable contract" when it comes to Bargnani, even if he's paid $20 per hour, if his play is not resulting in wins, why deliriously hang on to a "reasonable contract"?

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    Raptors Republic Starter AJ360's Avatar
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    Quote thegloveinrapsuniform wrote: View Post
    i for one am not in favor of trading bargnani to get away from his contract, im in favor of trading bargnani to get away from him, period. If there's a better deal that colangelo can get for bargnani than gasol, then go for it. But if that is one of the very few, i'd take it. Contract wise, gasol will be an expiring next year, which could be a good trade bait. Even at 32, gasol is no lame duck. On a team like the raps, easy 20-10. Would be a good mentor for jv, and not locker cancer.

    I dont get the reasoning behind "reasonable contract" when it comes to bargnani, even if he's paid $20 per hour, if his play is not resulting in wins, why deliriously hang on to a "reasonable contract"?
    plus one.

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