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Once again, Dougie Smith bows down to Raps and says, "Yessir."

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  • #31
    I get what you're saying, CRF. But at the very least, there appears to be a logical correlation between negative opinions and losing, and positive opinions and winning.

    Over the course of this team's existence, there has been very little winning going on, which explains the litany of complaints we're seeing here. Which is why the unbridled optimism (stemming from Smitty) just doesn't "feel" right, regardless of whether or not it's a genuine opinion.

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    • #32
      I don't think that doug is much of a basketball fan. He follows the raptors, but I can't see him wanting to watch games from other markets... he spends more time talking about unrelated sports than basketball around the league.

      Feel the guy is a cog, and fans could benefit from young blood that actually enjoys the sport of basketball.

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      • #33
        Doug was good for the market 15 years ago, but the market has outgrown him, fans now know more than him... and it shows, his lack of interest in the game is becoming a dead weight.

        You can't get by watching the raptors only these days, this market could use more committed writers to the game.

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        • #34
          BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
          Doug was good for the market 15 years ago, but the market has outgrown him, fans now know more than him... and it shows,
          I think you just summed up Leo Rautins' relevance with 100% accuracy

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          • #35
            Nilanka wrote: View Post
            I get what you're saying, CRF. But at the very least, there appears to be a logical correlation between negative opinions and losing, and positive opinions and winning.

            Over the course of this team's existence, there has been very little winning going on, which explains the litany of complaints we're seeing here. Which is why the unbridled optimism (stemming from Smitty) just doesn't "feel" right, regardless of whether or not it's a genuine opinion.
            True, but if every reporter took a negative 'the sky is falling' approach, we'd be complaining about that too. I've never read him and got the impression that he thinks everything is A-ok and that we'll be contending for a championship anytime now, either. I just think he focuses on the positives and has faith that the organization/management is aware of the problems and is busy behind the scenes doing everything they can to rectify the negatives.

            Sometimes I think in this era of fast food, video games and social media, too may people expect sweeping changes to happen overnight. Do people really think BC is sitting in his office staring at the ceiling doing nothing (wait, don't answer that!)? This isn't a video game where you can make any trade happen if you want to. In fact, when BC was aggressively pulling the trigger to try and make big changes happen quickly (ie: Villanueva/Ford trade, Ford/O'Neal trade, O'Neal/Marion trade, Marion/Turkoglu trade, etc...) he wound up being villafied for apparently acting too quickly without thinking. Now he's being more patient and ensuring that potential moves don't wind up backfiring a year or two down the line, yet people are complaining for the opposite reasons now. I love being a GM in fantasy sports and video games, but man, no way would I want to be one for real because you're always in a lose-lose situation (unless you luck into Durant, then suddenly you're a god who's 'model' is the shining beacon of hope for everyone to follow). Sometimes it's a question of methods VS results, too.

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            • #36
              Every article I read from the dude, I get the feeling that he can be doing other things with his day than following the Raptors.

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              • #37
                Smith bothers me less than guys like Devlin, Leo and, to a lesser extent, Jack. I think it's mostly because, to me at least, it's pretty obvious Doug isn't a basketball guy. He ended up with the BB gig at the Star cause they already had Griffin on the baseball beat and 4 or 5 guys covering hockey. He's a chronicler of the team. He is close to the organization out of habit and necessity. He's like the guy down the hall from me who comes in, works 8-4:30, leaves and couldn't give two shits about the job or the company. He'll do the minimum possible and just wants his paycheck. I get Smith.

                I don't get guys like Leo and Jack. Whatever you think about them, they are basketball guys and they aren't stupid. They have lived the game their whole lives and they understand BB. They know what is going on with this team and they understand how bad things are but they keep to the company line and willingly drink the kool-aid. To me, it's worse because it becomes a credibility issue. I think Leo, in particular, has basically lost any respect he once had among Raptor followers and Jack, too, has lost respect with the constant excuse-making.

                I'm not saying there needs to be a constant stream of negativity for 2 hours every game but being honest every now and again would be nice.

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                • #38
                  Matt52 wrote: View Post
                  Actually, this has nothing to do with me.

                  The Raptors have been awful for 5 years and show no signs of improvement after all the talk of improvement and acceleration heard over the summer.

                  It seems numerous reporters (Koreen, Chisholm, Kelly, Cox, CBC guy, Grange) are all noticing this team is in fact bad and has been for quite some time. I have certainly ranted in this post on Smith but my points on the state of the Raptors are very logical and backed by the most important statistic of all: wins and losses over the last 5 years. Smith should get a job with Raptors PR.

                  p.s. nice of you to bring the sandbox in from the main page. I noticed you left remnants of waste that is often found on the main page. Please take the sandbox back to the main page on your way out.
                  "Actually, this has nothing to do with me."

                  Since I didn't quote you, I thought that might be a clear sign that I wasn't directing my post specifically at you, but at the majority of posts in the thread. I'll try and include a disclaimer next time.

                  "no signs of improvement after all the talk of improvement"

                  If you can't find encouragement in, or even see, the improvements in DD,ED,JV,Ross, I feel sorry.

                  "Please take the sandbox back to the main page on your way out."

                  Snark for snark.... I'm not leaving, but if you'd rather I be more direct, rude, and in your face about joining the childish, self-entitled, everybody (Raps management, coaching, writers, RR posters) who doesn't agree with me is a fool, horde, I'll leave the sandbox out of it.

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                  • #39
                    You basically told others to stay in the sandbox if they don't agree with you. You are not exactly a pillar of compromise.


                    With doug's access, even a mentally challenged raptor fan can do much much better. IMO. You just have to like the sport.

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                    • #40
                      p00ka wrote: View Post
                      "Actually, this has nothing to do with me."

                      Since I didn't quote you, I thought that might be a clear sign that I wasn't directing my post specifically at you, but at the majority of posts in the thread. I'll try and include a disclaimer next time.

                      "no signs of improvement after all the talk of improvement"

                      If you can't find encouragement in, or even see, the improvements in DD,ED,JV,Ross, I feel sorry.

                      "Please take the sandbox back to the main page on your way out."

                      Snark for snark.... I'm not leaving, but if you'd rather I be more direct, rude, and in your face about joining the childish, self-entitled, everybody (Raps management, coaching, writers, RR posters) who doesn't agree with me is a fool, horde, I'll leave the sandbox out of it.
                      Basketball is a team game. This is what I see:

                      Eric Koreen ‏@ekoreen

                      Raptors Def rankings (this year/last year): points allowed per possession (25/14); OPP FG% (27/T7); OPP 3P% (26/5).
                      The Raptors are failing to deliver on the culture change and the accountability statements from the start of the year.

                      DD, JV, and Ross are definitely positives on the season. Unfortunately it doesn't change the fact the Raps are the 2nd worst team in the league.

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                      • #41
                        slaw wrote: View Post
                        Smith bothers me less than guys like Devlin, Leo and, to a lesser extent, Jack. I think it's mostly because, to me at least, it's pretty obvious Doug isn't a basketball guy. He ended up with the BB gig at the Star cause they already had Griffin on the baseball beat and 4 or 5 guys covering hockey. He's a chronicler of the team. He is close to the organization out of habit and necessity. He's like the guy down the hall from me who comes in, works 8-4:30, leaves and couldn't give two shits about the job or the company. He'll do the minimum possible and just wants his paycheck. I get Smith.

                        I don't get guys like Leo and Jack. Whatever you think about them, they are basketball guys and they aren't stupid. They have lived the game their whole lives and they understand BB. They know what is going on with this team and they understand how bad things are but they keep to the company line and willingly drink the kool-aid. To me, it's worse because it becomes a credibility issue. I think Leo, in particular, has basically lost any respect he once had among Raptor followers and Jack, too, has lost respect with the constant excuse-making.

                        I'm not saying there needs to be a constant stream of negativity for 2 hours every game but being honest every now and again would be nice.
                        I find it as irritating as anyone sometimes, but just like all other homer announcers across the league, they're hired and paid by the organization to spew as much optimism as possible. That's their job, if they want to get paid! . It isn't going to change any more than it will in other cities. Do people who complain about these guys and their homerism get fooled by the far more objective stuff from U.S. national broadcasts, and think "why can't ours be like that"? It will never happen, no matter who is in the seat, so people need to turn the sound off if it's that painful, or accept that it will be forever so. These guys need to make a living, and they're doing what every broadcaster in every city does to do so.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          slaw wrote: View Post
                          Smith bothers me less than guys like Devlin, Leo and, to a lesser extent, Jack. I think it's mostly because, to me at least, it's pretty obvious Doug isn't a basketball guy. He ended up with the BB gig at the Star cause they already had Griffin on the baseball beat and 4 or 5 guys covering hockey. He's a chronicler of the team. He is close to the organization out of habit and necessity. He's like the guy down the hall from me who comes in, works 8-4:30, leaves and couldn't give two shits about the job or the company. He'll do the minimum possible and just wants his paycheck. I get Smith.

                          I don't get guys like Leo and Jack. Whatever you think about them, they are basketball guys and they aren't stupid. They have lived the game their whole lives and they understand BB. They know what is going on with this team and they understand how bad things are but they keep to the company line and willingly drink the kool-aid. To me, it's worse because it becomes a credibility issue. I think Leo, in particular, has basically lost any respect he once had among Raptor followers and Jack, too, has lost respect with the constant excuse-making.

                          I'm not saying there needs to be a constant stream of negativity for 2 hours every game but being honest every now and again would be nice.
                          You are right they aren't stupid - they know who signs their cheque.

                          If Smith was employed by the Raptors, I wouldn't mind him either.

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                          • #43
                            p00ka wrote: View Post
                            I find it as irritating as anyone sometimes, but just like all other homer announcers across the league, they're hired and paid by the organization to spew as much optimism as possible. That's their job, if they want to get paid! . It isn't going to change any more than it will in other cities. Do people who complain about these guys and their homerism get fooled by the far more objective stuff from U.S. national broadcasts, and think "why can't ours be like that"? It will never happen, no matter who is in the seat, so people need to turn the sound off if it's that painful, or accept that it will be forever so. These guys need to make a living, and they're doing what every broadcaster in every city does to do so.
                            I have no problem with the broadcast team being homers. That's fne. And you are right that 99% of times it's true about any pro sports team. I get that. But it's the constant excuse-making that drives me nuts and it's insulting to the hard core fans (the only viewers they have left) cause we know there are serious issues. That's all I'm saying. Plus, I really dislike Leo from a personality perpective. I think that may color my view of him in particular.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              p00ka wrote: View Post
                              I find it as irritating as anyone sometimes, but just like all other homer announcers across the league, they're hired and paid by the organization to spew as much optimism as possible. That's their job, if they want to get paid! . It isn't going to change any more than it will in other cities. Do people who complain about these guys and their homerism get fooled by the far more objective stuff from U.S. national broadcasts, and think "why can't ours be like that"? It will never happen, no matter who is in the seat, so people need to turn the sound off if it's that painful, or accept that it will be forever so. These guys need to make a living, and they're doing what every broadcaster in every city does to do so.
                              That's why I prefer to watch/listen/read a wide variety of sources, watch the team myself and then come to my own conclusions.

                              I think this offseason was the perfect example of why no single source should be your only source of Raptors/NBA info/insight:
                              - Raptors PR said they wanted the team to fight for playoffs
                              - local media bought into the improvements via draft/trade/free agency and were thinking 8th seed
                              - most US outlets were writing Raptors off as fighting just to avoid the Eastern basement
                              - many RR posters projected the Raptors to finish as high as 4th or 5th in the East

                              Read the positives, read the negatives, read the insiders, read the 'Toronto still has an NBA team' American outlets, read fellow RR posters, watch the Raptors yourself, watch the rest of the league yourself, boil everything together, take with multiple grains of salt, then make up your own mind and set your own expectations.

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                              • #45
                                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                                You are right they aren't stupid - they know who signs their cheque.

                                If Smith was employed by the Raptors, I wouldn't mind him either.
                                Yeah, but again, if you watched the Jays much toward the end of the season, Zaun, a Rogers employee, was giving it to the team. Calling out the owners, the GM, coaches, players, the minor leauge development of players, etc. Now, Zaun is a bit of a goof but he was giving his honest take on things, right or wrong. I don't like Zaun but I respected that he was saying what a lot of fans were thinking.

                                I simply can't imagine Leo or Jack doing the same and I think that speaks somewhat poorly of them.

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