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Thread: Bargs admits to team's woes

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    Raptors Republic Starter phez's Avatar
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    Default Bargs admits to team's woes

    http://www.sportando.net/eng/usa/nba...situation.html

    "This is a strange season for me with too many ups and downs. One night I score 34 points, then just 4, then 21, again 4 and last game 23. It sounds like a joke. When things go wrong, also occurs a psychological component, but cannot be a justification. The stimuli must be found as well in the worst situations.

    We are playing badly and when all the team plays a bad basketball, even you, as a player, are affected. Rumors on me being traded? I have heard them. It is clear that when you play bad, the first thing you think is to shop your best player.

    The situation as a team is bad. After all the expectations last summer, the result is that we keep losing. We missed the playoffs the last four years and we have the second worst record in the NBA after the Wizards. Last season, despite the losses, we had a defensive identity. We won the match through the defense. This season we don't even have this. We alternate good performances with other games in which we concede a lot of points to out opponents.

    Honestly, I do not know the reason. We have new players, almost the entire starting five changed. We changed the key roles as the point guard and the center. But we are only at the beginning of the season. We still have time to correct this negative trend".
    I won't comment on whether he's right or wrong but it feels good to hear at least someone from the organization talk about the team's performance.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Nice to see Bargnani thinks what everyone else is asking.

    The cynic in me cannot ignore the, "....the first thing youthink is to shop your best player." I don't think he is the best player on the team.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    "It is clear that when you play bad, the first thing you think is to shop your best player." - Is Barg's suggesting we trade Lowry, and Valanciunas?

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Nice to see Bargnani thinks what everyone else is asking.

    The cynic in me cannot ignore the, "....the first thing youthink is to shop your best player." I don't think he is the best player on the team.
    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    "It is clear that when you play bad, the first thing you think is to shop your best player." - Is Barg's suggesting we trade Lowry, and Valanciunas?
    lol, I was thinking the EXACT same thing when reading that. Is Bargnani our "best player"? Since he's been struggling to produce in the only category he's capable of providing (i.e. points), I'd have to lean towards Lowry.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    lol, I was thinking the EXACT same thing when reading that. Is Bargnani our "best player"? Since he's been struggling to produce in the only category he's capable of providing (i.e. points), I'd have to lean towards Lowry.
    I wouldn't lean, I'd dive.

    I would put Lowry and DeRozan both ahead of Bargnani. Anyone notice DeRozan is getting 5 rebs a game?

    I could argue Calderon is better. Take out JV's rookie nights and he is better.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Nice to see Bargnani thinks what everyone else is asking.

    The cynic in me cannot ignore the, "....the first thing youthink is to shop your best player." I don't think he is the best player on the team.
    That stood out to me aswell.

    Along with only considering how many points he's scoring when discussing his 'ups and down' and the ironic discussion of defense/defensive identity.

    Maybe that me being cynical aswell or perhaps its a statement of how much he's been coddled by the organization over the years.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    I hadn't even seen Matt's post. We must have posted at the same time. Lowry is definitely the guy right now, but JV is definitely the best trade chip.

    So what really has Barg's admitted? That the team is struggling, well the record makes that fairly obvious. That they are struggling psychologically?

    I think the only thing impressive about Barg's comments is that he used the word "stimuli", unless that term is Italian, then I retract my comment.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    That stood out to me aswell.

    Along with only considering how many points he's scoring when discussing his 'ups and down' and the ironic discussion of defense/defensive identity.

    Maybe that me being cynical aswell or perhaps its a statement of how much he's been coddled by the organization over the years.
    Good point. The Republic is more knowledgeable about the proper ways to evaluate a player than an actual NBA player himself. [I tried to type that without sounding arrogant, but it's just not possible].

    YAY POINTS!!!
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    There's an article someone posted on RealGM which is Messina talking about the importance of offence-defense balance on the theory that if you have a team that moves the ball, shares the ball and trusts each other on offence it will extend to defence. You could also take the other approach (like the ol' Larry Brown view) that trust on defence breeds trust on offence and more scoring.

    Either way, when you watch all the one-on-one nonsense on offence - it's my turn to shoot! now it's your turn! now it's his turn. That's a big problem. Then, you watch the defense, and it's missed rotations, poor help, straight line drives, wide open shooters.... a mess. You get the sense that right now it's less of a team than a bunch of individuals playing for themselves.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    There's an article someone posted on RealGM which is Messina talking about the importance of offence-defense balance on the theory that if you have a team that moves the ball, shares the ball and trusts each other on offence it will extend to defence. You could also take the other approach (like the ol' Larry Brown view) that trust on defence breeds trust on offence and more scoring.

    Either way, when you watch all the one-on-one nonsense on offence - it's my turn to shoot! now it's your turn! now it's his turn. That's a big problem. Then, you watch the defense, and it's missed rotations, poor help, straight line drives, wide open shooters.... a mess. You get the sense that right now it's less of a team than a bunch of individuals playing for themselves.
    Couldn't agree more

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    The thing that kills me the most is that usually a good player would say "I need to step my game up and do better at (fill in the blank) in order to help my team and be a leader". But I've never heard Bargnanni ever admit that anything is his fault or take it upon himself to put the blame squarely on his shoulders.

    A leader he is not.

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    Quote phez wrote: View Post
    http://www.sportando.net/eng/usa/nba...situation.html



    I won't comment on whether he's right or wrong but it feels good to hear at least someone from the organization talk about the team's performance.
    Is it only me or did anyone else notice that the first paragraph well written in perfect English, and the other 3 was typical Barg broken English! Almost like the first paragraph was written by a spokesperson. In either case, I am not about to feel bad for him. He is making $10 millions a year. How do you feel bad for someone making a year what your entire family never made in a lifetime? lol But at least he is making a statement!

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    The thing that kills me the most is that usually a good player would say "I need to step my game up and do better at (fill in the blank) in order to help my team and be a leader". But I've never heard Bargnanni ever admit that anything is his fault or take it upon himself to put the blame squarely on his shoulders.

    A leader he is not.
    It's almost like he's been somewhat defiant over the years. Reporters have attempted to give him the hint of needing to improve HIS rebounding and defense, and more often than not, he answers the question from a team perspective (as opposed to an individual perspective).
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I wouldn't lean, I'd dive.

    I would put Lowry and DeRozan both ahead of Bargnani. Anyone notice DeRozan is getting 5 rebs a game?

    I could argue Calderon is better. Take out JV's rookie nights and he is better.

    I will say, when you turn the page on a player, you really turn that page. lol

    Not even a shred of kindness for 'the Magician'?

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    Raptors Republic Rookie vino's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    There's an article someone posted on RealGM which is Messina talking about the importance of offence-defense balance on the theory that if you have a team that moves the ball, shares the ball and trusts each other on offence it will extend to defence. You could also take the other approach (like the ol' Larry Brown view) that trust on defense breeds trust on offense and more scoring.

    Either way, when you watch all the one-on-one nonsense on offense - it's my turn to shoot! now it's your turn! now it's his turn. That's a big problem. Then, you watch the defense, and it's missed rotations, poor help, straight line drives, wide open shooters.... a mess. You get the sense that right now it's less of a team than a bunch of individuals playing for themselves.
    This is how it looks to those who do not even fully understand basketball. My gf was watching Raps-Suns with me the other night. Phoenix moved the ball so well on several occasions that she has turned to me and said, why is there an open man all the time?! A combination of poor Raps rotations and good ball movement by the opponent I replied... and then thought to myself - damn, why aren't we moving the ball at all on offense?! There is no real answer to that. I do not believe that it's all about an ace drawing doubles all the time. It could be a penetration with a kick (god I hope Lowry and Calderon were one man for that to happen), or just smart, quick passes. Does not happen here... unfortunately. As for late/poor rotations on D - enough has been said about it lately.

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    It's almost like he's been somewhat defiant over the years. Reporters have attempted to give him the hint of needing to improve HIS rebounding and defense, and more often than not, he answers the question from a team perspective (as opposed to an individual perspective).
    There have not been HINTS. They were statements made as to how he needs to improve his rebounding and defense.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote vino wrote: View Post
    This is how it looks to those who do not even fully understand basketball. My gf was watching Raps-Suns with me the other night. Phoenix moved the ball so well on several occasions that she has turned to me and said, why is there an open man all the time?! A combination of poor Raps rotations and good ball movement by the opponent I replied... and then thought to myself - damn, why aren't we moving the ball at all on offense?! There is no real answer to that. I do not believe that it's all about an ace drawing doubles all the time. It could be a penetration with a kick (god I hope Lowry and Calderon were one man for that to happen), or just smart, quick passes. Does not happen here... unfortunately. As for late/poor rotations on D - enough has been said about it lately.
    Which of our high usage guys are ball movers? Bargs and Demar carry glue to games so they can wipe it on their hands before tip off. Lowry is a perfectly good passer but often gets caught up in some 'I'll win this for us' in 6 straight possession mentality.

    To decipher the teams ball movement issues, we only need to follow the ball
    Last edited by Craiger; Wed Dec 5th, 2012 at 12:30 PM. Reason: added thoughts

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Maybe it depends on what you mean by best player.. if based purely on talent alone, I'd agree with him. Bargnani is the most talented player on this team. But when you factor in work ethic and desire then I think he drops. But talent wise, he is tops on this team; this says a lot about the make up of BC's Toronto Raptors.
    your pal,
    ebrian

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    It's almost like he's been somewhat defiant over the years. Reporters have attempted to give him the hint of needing to improve HIS rebounding and defense, and more often than not, he answers the question from a team perspective (as opposed to an individual perspective).
    Exactly! It's infuriating to think that a player that they've tried to build the team around doesn't even step up and take any of the blame for how poor his team has been doing. I wish I new what he said during his interviews and phyche evaluations leading up to the Raptors drafting him with the #1 pick. Couldn't they tell that he had no will to be a leader and zero heart?

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    lmao at poo-nani thinking he is the best player.

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