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Thread: Bargs admits to team's woes

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I wouldn't lean, I'd dive.

    I would put Lowry and DeRozan both ahead of Bargnani. Anyone notice DeRozan is getting 5 rebs a game?

    I could argue Calderon is better. Take out JV's rookie nights and he is better.
    he has fewer rookie nights than bargs has bargs nights
    @jerboat

  2. #22
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    It's nice to get some recognition of the players themselves. Although, like everyone is saying, I would definitely put Demar and Lowry ahead of Bargnani. Bargnani sorely needs to become our 3rd/4th option, or 1st option off the bench.

    It's time to get some change from this team. Either trade Bargnani, or bench him, because he has had a fairly negative impact on this team besides a game or two...

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    I will say, when you turn the page on a player, you really turn that page. lol

    Not even a shred of kindness for 'the Magician'?
    He is what he is. All past arguments were of the idea of what he could be. He showed what he could be but decides to return to what he is. See you, Andrea.

    He is one-dimensional who of late is half-dimensional.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    I think its positive that Andrea is realistic on the situation. I agree with everything he has said (except the best player part, but ill let that slide!), he understands that the defense from last season is lacking, and he understands his own inconsistencies. At least he doesn't come off as delusional!
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    The thing that kills me the most is that usually a good player would say "I need to step my game up and do better at (fill in the blank) in order to help my team and be a leader". But I've never heard Bargnanni ever admit that anything is his fault or take it upon himself to put the blame squarely on his shoulders.

    A leader he is not.
    He is not a leader nor mentally strong. When was the last time you saw AB dive for a loose ball? He does not give as much effort consistantly as he could.

  6. #26
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    He is what he is. All past arguments were of the idea of what he could be. He showed what he could be but decides to return to what he is. See you, Andrea.

    He is one-dimensional who of late is half-dimensional.
    Agreed.

  7. #27
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    idk guys, i know this is sad to say but i would have to agree with bargs. he is our best player, he would net us the most return in a trade out of any other piece we have. we only gave up a first round pick for KL (protected 1-3 15+) and clearly that was the best offer for him otherwise he wouldn't be on our team. considering he is actually having a bad season i think his value is even lower. yes i know you will say but he had great games before the injury, well to me that sounds like similar situation we had last year with our "best player". if i was another gm in the L i would be all over JV thou, in a couple years this kid is going to be crazy good.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Starter RAPresenting's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I wouldn't lean, I'd dive.

    I would put Lowry and DeRozan both ahead of Bargnani. Anyone notice DeRozan is getting 5 rebs a game?

    I could argue Calderon is better. Take out JV's rookie nights and he is better.
    Lowry would be ahead yes but not as much as a dive would deserve. Matt put the hate aside for a second and remember Lowry's ability to involve others then himself, shot selection and constantly getting burned defensively from gambling like an addict.

    Demar will be better yes but today he is not. Look no further then games with defensive stoppers (Tony Allen, Sefolosa, Brewer, Iggy) to completely make Demar invisable. He's grown a ton and yes he's been outstanding on the boards but he can be kept in check. Andrea offensively misses shots and his selection is questionable at best but he isn't shut down like Demar is. Andrea beats himself while Demar simply gets bullied (Most frustrating part of Andrea's game IMO). They are both poor playmakers for others and defensively Dre is defenitely better at keeping his man in check. I fully expect Demar to surpass him next year but today he's not.

    This is why our record is so poor simply because the overall talent on this team is not good enough. I'm a die heart fan, watch every game and have had been fooled by BC many times. Fact of the matter is they just aren't good enough if Andrea is in the conversation for "best player" and unfortunately today I see him as the second best behind Lowry.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post

    I would put Lowry and DeRozan both ahead of Bargnani. Anyone notice DeRozan is getting 5 rebs a game?
    Yep, and also just that, while he still is a better home than road player, DeRozan has been our "best" player by default by being the most consistent and the least damaging out of he, Bargs and Lowry. Though with Lowry, it's clearly a combination of coming back early and trying to do too much. I wish Bargs tried. At all.
    DeRozan has been a nice surprise. I expected a bit of a stabilization of his game after last year, at least in scoring, but the rebounding has been nice, and he just seems much more aware and deliberate. He's making fewer bad decisions on both sides of the court, and his effort level is more consistent.

  10. #30
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Yep, and also just that, while he still is a better home than road player, DeRozan has been our "best" player by default by being the most consistent and the least damaging out of he, Bargs and Lowry. Though with Lowry, it's clearly a combination of coming back early and trying to do too much. I wish Bargs tried. At all.
    DeRozan has been a nice surprise. I expected a bit of a stabilization of his game after last year, at least in scoring, but the rebounding has been nice, and he just seems much more aware and deliberate. He's making fewer bad decisions on both sides of the court, and his effort level is more consistent.
    +1.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Nice to see Bargnani thinks what everyone else is asking.

    The cynic in me cannot ignore the, "....the first thing youthink is to shop your best player." I don't think he is the best player on the team.
    And this is exactly why the team sucks, not because Bargnani thinks he is the team's best player, but because management believes that Bargnani is the team's best player. Why would Bargnani assume that? Because Casey runs almost everything through him. Thats why even with a 2-19 performance, he is still in the game because most of the plays are set for him. Whether we fans like or not, Bargnani is the heralded franchise player, its been fairly obvious the past few years, unless you're living under a rock.

    He can admit all the woes all he wants, what matters now is if he's going to do something about it. the problem is he's going 29% off the field and still only having 2-3 asts per game. If he realizes his struggles, he should pass more, set up teammates.

    The best thing that ive read in this article is that he's heard rumors about him being traded. I want that to light a fire under his butt, not for the team, but for the sake of him getting more value in a trade.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote RAPresenting wrote: View Post
    Lowry would be ahead yes but not as much as a dive would deserve. Matt put the hate aside for a second and remember Lowry's ability to involve others then himself, shot selection and constantly getting burned defensively from gambling like an addict.

    Demar will be better yes but today he is not. Look no further then games with defensive stoppers (Tony Allen, Sefolosa, Brewer, Iggy) to completely make Demar invisable. He's grown a ton and yes he's been outstanding on the boards but he can be kept in check. Andrea offensively misses shots and his selection is questionable at best but he isn't shut down like Demar is. Andrea beats himself while Demar simply gets bullied (Most frustrating part of Andrea's game IMO). They are both poor playmakers for others and defensively Dre is defenitely better at keeping his man in check. I fully expect Demar to surpass him next year but today he's not.

    This is why our record is so poor simply because the overall talent on this team is not good enough. I'm a die heart fan, watch every game and have had been fooled by BC many times. Fact of the matter is they just aren't good enough if Andrea is in the conversation for "best player" and unfortunately today I see him as the second best behind Lowry.
    There is no hate in my analysis of Bargnani.

    Hate is a result of the analysis.

    **Hate is used for Andrea's game, not talking about him as a person, hate would just be psychotic then**

    I respectfully agree to disagree that Bargnani is a better player than Lowry or DeRozan. This discussion for me has 'better player' meaning contributes more to winning. There is no question Bargnani's skills are phenomenal but skills don't win games without heart, hustle, and desire.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    He is what he is. All past arguments were of the idea of what he could be. He showed what he could be but decides to return to what he is. See you, Andrea.

    He is one-dimensional who of late is half-dimensional.
    Yeah. Ive given up on the "what if Bargnani is traded and he becomes a beast".

    Well, great for him. Unfortunately, he can never be a beast with this team. Maybe beside Duncan or Howard, but here, he's only going to be a beast beside beauty. hahaha ouch, that was corny.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    Yeah. Ive given up on the "what if Bargnani is traded and he becomes a beast".

    Well, great for him. Unfortunately, he can never be a beast with this team. Maybe beside Duncan or Howard, but here, he's only going to be a beast beside beauty. hahaha ouch, that was corny.
    lol - corny indeed but point taken.

    I've accepted Bargnani most likely will be a beast elsewhere but after 7 years I don't give a flying poop because it is not going to happen here.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  15. #35
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    bargs career stats in 30.6 min a game he has avg 15.5 ppg on .438% shooting 4.9 rpg 1.3 apg 0.9bpg 1.69 turn overs and 2.64 fouls while shooting .364 from deep. this is the best raptor we have had for the last 4 years. (sad i know) our previous ownership allowed this to happen by asking our gm to put a playoff team together without allowing him to spend the money needed. you can not blame bargs because the fan base believed he would be something he's not, and never will be. i could easily argue that if he was on a better team that was properly constructed his stats would be a lot better. unfortunately a good player (bargs) was asked to be something he's not. and the fans were constantly reminded that he is the face of the franchise and now we all want him traded. he is being paid 10 mil this year but you all expect him to perform as if hes making 18-20 million. its so absurd, i think his contract is very fair ( other then the start of the season of course, but you pay 10 million for a 7 foot scorer who for the first time in his life didn't play basketball all summer, and has a slow start to the year and everyone says trade him. i just dont get it)

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    lol - corny indeed but point taken.

    I've accepted Bargnani most likely will be a beast elsewhere but after 7 years I don't give a flying poop because it is not going to happen here.
    hahahaha ive never seen flying poop.

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Agunn wrote: View Post
    bargs career stats in 30.6 min a game he has avg 15.5 ppg on .438% shooting 4.9 rpg 1.3 apg 0.9bpg 1.69 turn overs and 2.64 fouls while shooting .364 from deep. this is the best raptor we have had for the last 4 years. (sad i know) our previous ownership allowed this to happen by asking our gm to put a playoff team together without allowing him to spend the money needed. you can not blame bargs because the fan base believed he would be something he's not, and never will be. i could easily argue that if he was on a better team that was properly constructed his stats would be a lot better. unfortunately a good player (bargs) was asked to be something he's not. and the fans were constantly reminded that he is the face of the franchise and now we all want him traded. he is being paid 10 mil this year but you all expect him to perform as if hes making 18-20 million. its so absurd, i think his contract is very fair ( other then the start of the season of course, but you pay 10 million for a 7 foot scorer who for the first time in his life didn't play basketball all summer, and has a slow start to the year and everyone says trade him. i just dont get it)
    I agree with this. And just to be clear, i am not blaming Bargnani. Im blaming management. But unfortunately. you cannot trade management. so you trade the player, and let management rework the team to get players that will fit the system and the culture that the team is trying to achieve. Bargnani is not that. Bargnani does not belong with the Raptors, why continue to force something that will not work?

    Like i said before, Jamal Crawford is a perfect example. The guy is a guard yet he averages 1-2 asts per game. he averages 1.2 rebs a game. but nobody's asking for his head. the guy is revered. because teams that he's been in, have expected him to only score. no coach subs him in and tells him, pass the ball, create plays, stop Kobe. unfortunately for bargnani, with the raps, he is expected to do more than just score. hopefully the next team he ends up with, he scores 20pts with 1 reb and 1 ast and theyll be happy.

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    It's funny that the main thing people seem to have taken away from this article is that Bargnani thinks he's the best player on the team.

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I wouldn't lean, I'd dive.

    I would put Lowry and DeRozan both ahead of Bargnani. Anyone notice DeRozan is getting 5 rebs a game?

    I could argue Calderon is better. Take out JV's rookie nights and he is better.
    DeRozan is a top 10 rebounding guard in the league right now!
    "You never heard of DeMar just google him, the defense don't know what to do wit him"

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    DD's rebounding is my favorite part of his development
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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