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Thread: Calderon better as a starter for Raptors?

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Starter DunkinDerozan's Avatar
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    Default Calderon better as a starter for Raptors?

    I remember when Lowry got injured Jose was putting up monster #'s 10+ assist double double machine a triple double to boot and the team was playing really comeptitve basketball. Since Lowry came back the team assists have decreased substancially and seems like the team is playing a more selfish brand of basketball. I beleive Jose is more effective as a starter as it takes him a while to loosen up and doesn't get quite the same motivation backing up. Again, does this mean Lowry shoud be backup well at this point it doesn't really matter since they both split minutes anyway. What I am basically trying to say is that Jose needs major minutes to be effective 30+ and otherwise his value isan't put to full effect.

    Also do you think that Jose team first brand of basketball is more useful with to our team that Lowry's score first mentality?

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    I was hoping Lowry would be a better pure PG - and he seemed to be at the start of the season - but he's certainly been playing far too much 'hero ball' for my liking lately. I much prefer a pass-first PG who gets his teammates involved and gets them going, making the 5-man unit better than the sum of the parts. I'm not ready to giveup on Lowry, but it scares me how he can look a lot like Ford, Jack and Bayless (much better than all 3 of course) when he gets in selfish mode.

    Even if he does prove to be a disappointment, he'd still be a great trade asset for BC to use down the road. For the record, I don't think Calderon should be starting (as much as I like him). He's old, horrible defensively and not part of the long-term core of this team, so the Raptors would be far better served giving playing time to Lowry in hopes of him developing chemistry/trust in his teammates so that he can feel more comfortable passing more often.

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    Raptors Republic Starter DunkinDerozan's Avatar
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    ouch to think we have our hopes up for a guy who reminds us of those 3 is kind of depressing. I think jose is better than ford,jack and bayless. Remeber Nash performed at an mvp level with a lot more mielage than jose at this point in his career at roughly the same age. I think Jose is capable of leading this team I just don't think he will have the opportunity since we brought Lowry in to be our starting pg. I know the sample size was small this season but who can for get the 20 assist game the triple double and the fire Jose played with given the starting role.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    I think letting Jose start would only offend Lowry imo.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Lowry is a better player. Maybe not a better PG but more talented over all, and that is what this team needs. So yes, Lowry should be starting.

    However if you want a pure point guard, they are hard to find. The upper echelon ones are Paul, Rondo and Nash. After that you probably get guys like Calderon, Miller, and Vasquez. Although Holiday has been doing really well this year and should get votes for the ASG.

    What my point is that, if you want a good PG then you're going to be getting one that looks to score as well. That's not a bad thing, but the issue with our team is that we don't have other play makers either which puts the spotlight more on Lowry.

    If only DeMar/JV/Bargnani learned to pass more, then we wouldn't even question having Jose in our starting lineup. JV has an excuse in that he's a rookie. And our SF has been always terrible.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Jkwasia's Avatar
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    I think dribbles is fine coming off the bench we know what he can and cant do after 8 years.....w.e he brings on the offense end he gives it up on the defensive end .......and the last we need is to offend Lowry who we all know is a much more talented player than dribbles.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Lowry is a better player. Maybe not a better PG but more talented over all, and that is what this team needs. So yes, Lowry should be starting.

    However if you want a pure point guard, they are hard to find. The upper echelon ones are Paul, Rondo and Nash. After that you probably get guys like Calderon, Miller, and Vasquez. Although Holiday has been doing really well this year and should get votes for the ASG.

    What my point is that, if you want a good PG then you're going to be getting one that looks to score as well. That's not a bad thing, but the issue with our team is that we don't have other play makers either which puts the spotlight more on Lowry.

    If only DeMar/JV/Bargnani learned to pass more, then we wouldn't even question having Jose in our starting lineup. JV has an excuse in that he's a rookie. And our SF has been always terrible.
    Your dose of reality relating to the Raptors' starting lineup hurts... like only the truth can!

    PG: score-first player who's scoring is inefficient (and that's when he's not in 'hero ball' mode)

    SG: inefficient scorer with no outside shot and poor defense

    SF: ongoing open "competition" between out-of-work castoffs and D-leaguers

    PF: inefficient scorer who doesn't rebound and provides poor help defense

    C: rookie


    And we collectively thought the Raptors would be strong contenders for the playoffs this season?

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Your dose of reality relating to the Raptors' starting lineup hurts... like only the truth can!

    PG: score-first player who's scoring is inefficient (and that's when he's not in 'hero ball' mode)

    SG: inefficient scorer with no outside shot and poor defense

    SF: ongoing open "competition" between out-of-work castoffs and D-leaguers

    PF: inefficient scorer who doesn't rebound and provides poor help defense

    C: rookie


    And we collectively thought the Raptors would be strong contenders for the playoffs this season?
    I think this was the hope:

    PG: defense minded, tough as nails baller, who has mighty big testicles in the crunch.

    SG: a player who is improving his game and would benefit from having another scorer on the floor with him.

    SF: the glue guy who would return to form on his shooting stroke only to have his elbow damaged by silicon sack over usage.

    PF: a healthy legend (read: enigma) returns to previous short term form.

    C: rookie

    Team: tough, grind it out, protect the paint, clean the glass, out work/out hustle, pound the rock.


    Sadly, we collectively thought did think this team was a contender for the playoffs. Still a lot of people refusing to pass the pipe though - lol.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  9. #9
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    calderon is better as a starter but the raptors are not better with calderon as a starter

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    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Our future is clearly in Kyle Lowrys hands, no need to bench him.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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    Raptors Republic Rookie pillowmint's Avatar
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    In response to your title.

    Nope.

    Not even a little bit.

    That is all. Please close and burn this thread.
    i8theball.com it's a website...about, you know....basketball.

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    Isn't it weird that the people that want calderon to start don't want to trade bargnani either? Just saying.

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    Quote ball4life wrote: View Post
    calderon is better as a starter but the raptors are not better with calderon as a starter
    Well put.

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Lowry is no doubt so much better than those 3 mentioned, it'd probably take days for them to catch up to Lowry, running, while he's standing still.

    Now, I think it's just the fact, he's trying to force the situation a bit. They may also be a factor, for with injuries, the team could be asking him to carry more of a load for the team, while he already was handling quite a bit being our best player.

    Calderon statistically wise, may be better in terms of point guard play, but this team lacks talent that the best teams in the league do, and benching Lowry would not solute the issue.

    I believe benching Bargnani is, for he does nothing positive for this team.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote DunkinDerozan wrote: View Post
    I remember when Lowry got injured Jose was putting up monster #'s 10+ assist double double machine a triple double to boot and the team was playing really comeptitve basketball. Since Lowry came back the team assists have decreased substancially and seems like the team is playing a more selfish brand of basketball. I beleive Jose is more effective as a starter as it takes him a while to loosen up and doesn't get quite the same motivation backing up. Again, does this mean Lowry shoud be backup well at this point it doesn't really matter since they both split minutes anyway. What I am basically trying to say is that Jose needs major minutes to be effective 30+ and otherwise his value isan't put to full effect.

    Also do you think that Jose team first brand of basketball is more useful with to our team that Lowry's score first mentality?
    I think the problem is Casey is putting Lowry in a position to play hero-ball. He's giving Calderon the PG reigns and Lowry the 2 guard spot. And we all know the 2 spot is where the scoring mostly comes from. Besides, nobody on the team is willing to put forth effort to grind for points. Bargnani is waiting behind the arc, Demar is camping on the perimeter. Somebody needs to muscle his way in or manufacture points. And Lowry is doing just that. The other problem is nobody crashes the board when he misses. How many times have we seen the past couple of games close to the end Lowry is getting his own rebound? Nobody's putting effort, so Lowry is. Jose is too scared to go in, he might get scratched.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    I think the problem is Casey is putting Lowry in a position to play hero-ball. He's giving Calderon the PG reigns and Lowry the 2 guard spot. And we all know the 2 spot is where the scoring mostly comes from. Besides, nobody on the team is willing to put forth effort to grind for points. Bargnani is waiting behind the arc, Demar is camping on the perimeter. Somebody needs to muscle his way in or manufacture points. And Lowry is doing just that. The other problem is nobody crashes the board when he misses. How many times have we seen the past couple of games close to the end Lowry is getting his own rebound? Nobody's putting effort, so Lowry is. Jose is too scared to go in, he might get scratched.
    I wrote this in the Bargs' thread: this offense is terrible. It's all one-on-one nonsense. The only guy moving is Val who sets screens. Everyone just stands around and waits for his turn with the ball. It's awful. There are no easy looks, bigs don't get the ball in good spots, and that's when there isn't total confusion on the floor. I think Lowry just eventually says to himself, "screw this", and goes nuts.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    I wrote this in the Bargs' thread: this offense is terrible. It's all one-on-one nonsense. The only guy moving is Val who sets screens. Everyone just stands around and waits for his turn with the ball. It's awful. There are no easy looks, bigs don't get the ball in good spots, and that's when there isn't total confusion on the floor. I think Lowry just eventually says to himself, "screw this", and goes nuts.
    And i would do the same. This why Bargnani needs to go. No care attitude is infectious.

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