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Thread: Dump your sh!t for prospects & picks!

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Dump your sh!t for prospects & picks!

    I was very much against this concept for a long time but I am warming up.

    Youth is not the issue in Toronto, a lack of talent is.

    Those that point out SAC, WSH, and other teams that have consistently gone to the lottery with little success should realize Petrie, Grunfield, and the other GM's are just as bad or worse than Colangelo the last few years..... think about that. Bad contracts, bad trades, poor draft selections are the issues. It is all about maximizing talent and assets.


    Anyways, here are some thoughts on trades Toronto could do to start obtaining top talent - because we know they aren't coming via free agency:


    Trade 1: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bd7svv4

    Chicago: Amir, Kleiza
    Toronto: Boozer, 2013 1st from Charlotte (top 12/'13, top10/'14, top 8/'15, unprotected/'16), rights to Mirotic

    Raptors still need players and Boozer will be a big expiring contract in 2014/15 when the Raptors, if successful in this concept, might actually be looking to add expensive veterans. Boozer pairing with JV can't be any worse than current combination (#tradeBargnani).


    Trade 2: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aqo4eb4

    Charlotte: Pekovic, Lee
    Minnesota: Gasol, Sacre, Johnson-Odom
    Los Angeles: Bargnani, Ridnour
    Toronto: Williams, Tyrus Thomas, 2013 1st from Memphis via MIN, 2013 1st from Portland via CHA (top 12/'13-15, unprotected '16), 2013 1st from Detroit via CHA (top 14/'13, top 8/'14, top 1/'15, unprotected/'16).

    Williams is a prospect with upside who has never had a shot in the NBA. Thomas gets one chance before he is sent home on paid leave and he, like Boozer, becomes a big expiring contract in 2014/15.


    Trade 3: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=9wrclxo

    Toronto: Okafor, 2013 1st unprotected
    Washington: Calderon



    So doing all this:

    2013 picks:
    • 2 - Washington 1st, Memphis 1st, Portland top 12, Detroit top 14, Charlotte top 12, Raps pick 4-14 to OKC/make PO,
    • 3 - Raps top 3/make PO, Washington 1st, Memphis 1st, Portland top 12, Detroit top 14, Charlotte top 12
    • 4 - Raps top 3/make PO, Washington 1st, Memphis 1st, Portland top 12, Detroit top 14, Charlotte top 12
    • 5 - Raps top 3/make PO, Washington 1st, Memphis 1st, Portland 13+, Detroit top 14, Charlotte top 12
    • 6 - Raps top 3/make PO, Washington 1st, Memphis 1st, Portland 13+, Detroit 15+, Charlotte 13+


    2014 picks:
    • 0 - Raps pick 3-14/make playoffs and OKC did not get 2013 pick, Portland top 12, Charlotte top 10, Detroit top 8
    • 1 - OKC received 2013 pick, Portland top 12, Charlotte top 10, Detroit top 8
    • 2 - OKC received 2013 pick, Portland 13+, Charlotte 10, Detroit top 8
    • 3 - OKC received 2013 pick, Portland 13+, Charlotte 11+, Detroit top 8
    • 4 - OKC received 2013 pick, Portland 13+, Charlotte 11+, Detroit 9+


    2015 picks:
    • 0 - Raps pick 3-14/make playoffs and OKC did not get 2014 pick, Portland top 12, Charlotte top 8, Detroit top 1
    • 1 - OKC received 2013 pick, Portland top 12, Charlotte top 8, Detroit top 1
    • 2 - OKC received 2013 pick, Portland 13+, Charlotte top 8, Detroit top 1
    • 3 - OKC received 2013 pick, Portland 13+, Charlotte 9+, Detroit top 1
    • 4 - OKC received 2013 pick, Portland 13+, Charlotte 9+, Detroit 2+


    2016 picks:
    • - Raps pick 2-14/make playoffs and OKC did not get 2015 pick, Portland 1st, Charlotte 1st, Detroit 1st
    • 1 - OKC received 2013 pick, Portland top 12, Charlotte top 8, Detroit top 1
    • 2 - OKC received 2013 pick, Portland 13+, Charlotte top 8, Detroit top 1
    • 3 - OKC received 2013 pick, Portland 13+, Charlotte 9+, Detroit top 1
    • 4 - OKC received 2013 pick, Portland 13+, Charlotte 9+, Detroit 2+



    Raps head in to trade deadline in 2015 with $30M in expiring contracts (Fields, Thomas, Boozer).
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Sat Dec 8th, 2012 at 09:08 PM.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic Rookie Ed Davis's Avatar
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    That Washington pick is probably going to be pretty damn high. Would they really be willing to part with it to get rid of Okafor?

  3. #3
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    I like your frame of mind.. but would want to accumulate as many 2014 first round picks as possible (obviously unprotected). We need as many chances as possible to get Mr. Wiggins in Toronto.

  4. #4
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Ed Davis wrote: View Post
    That Washington pick is probably going to be pretty damn high. Would they really be willing to part with it to get rid of Okafor?
    I have absolutely no idea.

    I would think a solid free agent signing would be much better for them at this point than another draft pick.... especially in a draft where there are few wings.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  5. #5
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I like your frame of mind.. but would want to accumulate as many 2014 first round picks as possible (obviously unprotected). We need as many chances as possible to get Mr. Wiggins in Toronto.
    I think a lot of other teams feel the same way. Many bottom feeder teams right now also have picks out that are lotto protected (Portland, Detroit, Charlotte, Sacramento). Cleveland does not have any bad contracts that aren't about to expire and continue to acquire picks. New Orleans already has a tonne of cap space for next year. Orlando does not appear to be a team that is trading picks rather accumulating. Phoenix would be interesting as they have a few bad contracts right now: Frye, Beasley, and possibly Dudley.

    But I do agree, getting 2014 picks is key.

    From the sounds of things the only way the Raps are going to get Wiggins is if they land top 1 or 2. Luckily if their own pick is not sent out this year, they still have those protections. 2014 also has more SF's than just Wiggins - but yeah, Wiggins would be a dream.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  6. #6
    Raptors Republic Starter KHD's Avatar
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    I hate to say it because it'll be ugly to watch, but this is the way to go. Having Boozer and Thomas on our roster would give us massive expiring contracts in that ever-so-important year after we draft Wiggins

  7. #7
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    I hate to say it because it'll be ugly to watch, but this is the way to go. Having Boozer and Thomas on our roster would give us massive expiring contracts in that ever-so-important year after we draft Wiggins
    Exactly.

    The trades themselves are likely implausible if not laughable.

    The concept is what is important:

    • Start accumulating numerous picks over the next 3 drafts,
    • Look to add veterans in 2015/16.
    • Flush the entire roster except JV, ED, Ross, DD, and Lowry.



    As for being ugly to watch: can it really get much worse??????
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  8. #8
    Raptors Republic Starter KHD's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    As for being ugly to watch: can it really get much worse??????
    Heh, not really. But with this we'd be locking in to 2 guaranteed miserable years, plus growing pains for the next 2 years after that at least.

  9. #9
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    Come on man... you could've at least put 3 more "#tradeBargnani"s in there..

  10. #10
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    Heh, not really. But with this we'd be locking in to 2 guaranteed miserable years, plus growing pains for the next 2 years after that at least.
    What is the current roster locked in to though? The absolute peak for this roster would be a first round exit in my opinion.

    I've officially joined the 'draft pick' side which is not to be confused with tank side although they are similar in nature.

    The Raptors have to acquire assets that are either going to directly lead to an All-Star talent. The only 2 ways that is going to happen is to draft one or trade for one.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  11. #11
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I've officially joined the 'draft pick' side which is not to be confused with tank side although they are similar in nature.
    I agree. Like, this team looks more like they're tanking than they looked last year. Didn't think that was any more possible with a team of Rasual Butler and Aaron Gray in the starting lineup...

  12. #12
    Raptors Republic Starter KHD's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    What is the current roster locked in to though? The absolute peak for this roster would be a first round exit in my opinion.

    I've officially joined the 'draft pick' side which is not to be confused with tank side although they are similar in nature.

    The Raptors have to acquire assets that are either going to directly lead to an All-Star talent. The only 2 ways that is going to happen is to draft one or trade for one.
    Yeah, you're absolutely right. It's just that officially committing to the 2014 draft year is a "swallow your pride" moment, and it fucking sucks considering the excessive, but not entirely unjustified, optimism about this season.

  13. #13
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    Yeah, you're absolutely right. It's just that officially committing to the 2014 draft year is a "swallow your pride" moment, and it fucking sucks considering the excessive, but not entirely unjustified, optimism about this season.
    And now you're absolutely right.

    This makes me realize another issue which totally infuriates me from listening to Colangelo vs. Clippers.

    He makes tonnes of excuses (but he is not making any excuses of course) and talks about how the talent is fine with the team. Then he says part of the problem is we won too many games last season. So by winning too many games, the Raptors did not get a higher draft pick which leads to ***drum roll*** MORE F'IN TALENT!

    The absolute last straw just broke for me and Colangelo. #No3rdYearOption
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  14. #14
    Raptors Republic Starter KHD's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    And now you're absolutely right.

    This makes me realize another issue which totally infuriates me from listening to Colangelo vs. Clippers.

    He makes tonnes of excuses (but he is not making any excuses of course) and talks about how the talent is fine with the team. Then he says part of the problem is we won too many games last season. So by winning too many games, the Raptors did not get a higher draft pick which leads to ***drum roll*** MORE F'IN TALENT!

    The absolute last straw just broke for me and Colangelo. #No3rdYearOption
    I think it probably is time to move on from Colangelo. I think he had a good start here, but couldn't recover from his poor handling of the Bosh situation. He catered to Bosh before he left and ended up with nothing to show for it after he left. Unfortunate, not entirely BC's fault, but the facts stand. We're a bad team, and have been a bad team since Bosh decided to leave (which IMO occured during his last season here).

    It's time to blow it up and begin again, and to do that we're going to have to clean house, and that means Colangelo and all the staff he hired (including Casey).

    I actually don't hate Colangelo, I think that he's had some bad luck and compounded it with some bad moves, but he does need to go. He'll never be able to move on from his draft picks or the players he acquired. Good on him for sticking to his guns, but I think he's in error here.

    Casey has absolutely lost the room on this team, and I don't understand it. The only thing I can think of is that Lowry is more of a "problem child" than we originally thought (seeing as he did have issues with McHale), and he's caused some issues in the locker room. Regardless of that, Casey has little to no offensive coaching ability, and his defensive schemes are nowhere near as good as they looked with T. Chandler patrolling the middle and savvy veterans Kidd and Stevenson in the guard spots.
    He's a nice guy, and a mediocre to bad coach, simple as that.

  15. #15
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    I like the thinking, but a few of those trade (Washington and others) wouldn't end up happening. Obviously we want to be a legit contender eventually, but with the talent we have we should be just under .500 and competing for the 8th seed. In reality, Lowry is almost an all star, despite his inability to play D bargnani is a decent 20ppg scorer, demar is becoming a very solid wing, and then we have a decent big man rotation with Ed, Amir, Jonas. I personally think blowing it up is better, but won't raptors management see a team that could almost make the playoffs and keep everyone

  16. #16
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote raptors98 wrote: View Post
    I like the thinking, but a few of those trade (Washington and others) wouldn't end up happening. Obviously we want to be a legit contender eventually, but with the talent we have we should be just under .500 and competing for the 8th seed. In reality, Lowry is almost an all star, despite his inability to play D bargnani is a decent 20ppg scorer, demar is becoming a very solid wing, and then we have a decent big man rotation with Ed, Amir, Jonas. I personally think blowing it up is better, but won't raptors management see a team that could almost make the playoffs and keep everyone
    With the talent we have we ARE well under .500 and competing for the worst record in the league.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=boqnqon

    Washington: Ridnour, Lee, 1st rd pick from Memphis via Minnesota, 2nd round pick from Toronto
    Minnesota: Gasol, Sacre, Johnson-Odom
    LAL: Bargnani, Calderon, Kleiza/Fields
    Toronto: Okafor, Pekovic, Williams, Duhon, Washington 2013 pick and right to swap 2014 w/ Washington


    Why?

    Minnesota and LAL has been discussed at length. Not sure if even possible but whatever. Not sure what Bargnani injury means but whatever. Not sure if ever plausible but whatever.

    Washington: shed $11M off payroll for next season and become free agent player. Obtain backup PG they desperately need. Question is: do they want another draft pick from a supposed weak draft or could they better improve the roster in free agency w/ possibly up to $11M + whatever salary cap increase and backup PG already addressed?

    Toronto: Williams is a talent, can he harness it in the NBA? Pekovic could be valuable piece for Raps roster moving forward or to trade again, would own right to match any offer in free agency this summer. Okafor is the cost of doing business for a draft pick in a weak draft and an opportunity to move higher in next seasons draft; Okafor also big expiring contract next year to possibly take on another bad contract for more picks. Duhon gives another PG for this year and is only guaranteed for $1.5M next season (goodbye).
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  18. #18
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=atwxrlk

    Draft night trade:

    Charlotte: Kleiza, Lucas
    Toronto: Tyrus Thomas, Portland's pick assuming #13 or higher.


    OR

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aluloq7

    Charlotte: Kleiza, Lucas, Davis
    Toronto: Tyrus Thomas, Charlotte's pick
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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