View Poll Results: What do you think?

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  • Take other teams sh!t for prospects & picks

    29 69.05%
  • Keep doing what we are doing. We already have talent!

    5 11.90%
  • Other (please tell in comments)

    8 19.05%
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Thread: Blow it up..... seriously

  1. #101
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    Yeah we suck at tanking. Golden State is the model NBA franchise when it comes to tanking.
    Consistently great San Antonio can't rest 50 yr old Tim Duncan for a game, but Golden state can piss away 50 games once they realize they wont make the playoffs. Crazy.
    The Draft lottery should be equal odds for all non-playoff teams IMO.

  2. #102
    Raptors Republic Starter KHD's Avatar
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    Quote pcrombeen wrote: View Post
    Yeah we suck at tanking. Golden State is the model NBA franchise when it comes to tanking.
    Consistently great San Antonio can't rest 50 yr old Tim Duncan for a game, but Golden state can piss away 50 games once they realize they wont make the playoffs. Crazy.
    The Draft lottery should be equal odds for all non-playoff teams IMO.
    Agreed. In fact I'd rather see it inverted than the way it is now. 17th place team in the league has 25% chance of winning. Fuck tanking.

  3. #103
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Oh yeah. All this talk of drafting the top talent is also tunnel vision. Drafting the player(s) would be great. But acquiring assets is key.

    Look how Houston got Harden. They turned draft picks in to Martin a couple of years back. Martin plus more draft picks and a just drafted player (Lamb) became Harden.

    Raps have assets nobody wants. Time to change that by taking assets nobody REALLY wants.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  4. #104
    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Okafor - 2 years.
    Ariza - 2 years.
    Boozer - 3 years (they have CHarlotte pick).
    Thomas - 3 years (they have DET and POR picks).
    Biedrins - 2 years (GSW have no pick to trade due to restrictions though).
    Jefferson - 2 years (see Biedrins)
    Charlie V - 2 years (same as GSW issues on pick)
    Gooden - 3 years
    Beasley - 3 years
    Frye - 3 years
    Salmons - 3 years (but they have pick gone out with restrictions)
    Hayes - 3 years (restrictions)
    Marvin Williams - 2 years


    Those are the stinkiest of the stinky, in my opinion. Did I miss anyone?
    What about Bargnani?

  5. #105
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    Agree completely with blowing it all up. I'm tired of these ongoing incremental fixes that are leading us on a road to nowhere. This is a star dominated league and you can not win without at least one of them. For me everything should revolve around trying to get the #1 pick in 2014 to draft Andrew Wiggins.

    Obviously there is no sure thing given the draft lottery but at least try to maximize the chances. This means (a) tanking especially next year (b) ensuring that OKC gets our #1 pick in 2013 (c) trading every possible asset other than JV focusing most on AB, JC, AJ, KL but also DD, ED, TR who are nice complementary players but not difference makers (d) trying to acquire 2014 draft picks of teams that could also be in the mix for the #1 pick in 2014 either directly through trades or in follow-up deals.

    Ofcourse, it may not work, but at least there would be a reasonably clean slate from which to construct a new team for a more talented GM.

  6. #106
    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
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    So you want "slow and planned out"? No quick fixes? Then what about treating this season the same? Take a look at where you predicted the raptors to finish
    http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/sh...013+prediction
    (yes, this thread was from july but I can't find a more recent one; help if you can)

    That was based on a starting team of lowry, derozan, fields, bargnani, valanciunas. How much of that team have we seen? You're ready to blow up this team that has barely played together over a stretch of 22 games? A stretch that many people, outside of toronto, have considered the toughest schedule of the season so far? It's not like we've got a desired player we're hanging on to in hopes of making a run that we should really just trade for youth. There's no reward for a tanked season this year (especially with our luck). What has really changed your prediction? Let things roll at least until the trade deadline. We don't even know what team we'd be blowing up yet.

  7. #107
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Jclaw wrote: View Post
    So you want "slow and planned out"? No quick fixes? Then what about treating this season the same? Take a look at where you predicted the raptors to finish
    http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/sh...013+prediction
    (yes, this thread was from july but I can't find a more recent one; help if you can)

    That was based on a starting team of lowry, derozan, fields, bargnani, valanciunas. How much of that team have we seen? You're ready to blow up this team that has barely played together over a stretch of 22 games? A stretch that many people, outside of toronto, have considered the toughest schedule of the season so far? It's not like we've got a desired player we're hanging on to in hopes of making a run that we should really just trade for youth. There's no reward for a tanked season this year (especially with our luck). What has really changed your prediction? Let things roll at least until the trade deadline. We don't even know what team we'd be blowing up yet.
    Is this directed at me? I'll assume it is.

    If so, yes, I said 8th. I always thought the Raps would contend for the 8th playoff spot but finish below .500. I believe it was 38/39/40 wins I was aiming for. Boy was I WRONG!

    What was all of that predicated on? BARGNANI. I was stoopid enough to think Bargnani the Bargnani we saw in about half the games last year was his coming out party. Boy was I wrong AGAIN! And yes, I am ready to blow it up. San Antonio's best player for years has been their hardest worker. Everything else filters down. In Toronto Bargnani is 'our main guy' and he is soft and lazy and we have seen the filtering down effect.

    What else has changed my prediction?

    A near top 10 defense that is now bottom 5.

    There are other things but why bother? Return to pre '11-12 on defense and Bargnani finally laying his hand on the table.

    Why not let things roll until the trade deadline? This team is NEVER-EVER-EVER getting its act together in its current form (in my opinion of course). *Oh shit, was that Taylor Swift?*
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  8. #108
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote pakdawgie wrote: View Post
    Agree completely with blowing it all up. I'm tired of these ongoing incremental fixes that are leading us on a road to nowhere. This is a star dominated league and you can not win without at least one of them. For me everything should revolve around trying to get the #1 pick in 2014 to draft Andrew Wiggins.

    Obviously there is no sure thing given the draft lottery but at least try to maximize the chances. This means (a) tanking especially next year (b) ensuring that OKC gets our #1 pick in 2013 (c) trading every possible asset other than JV focusing most on AB, JC, AJ, KL but also DD, ED, TR who are nice complementary players but not difference makers (d) trying to acquire 2014 draft picks of teams that could also be in the mix for the #1 pick in 2014 either directly through trades or in follow-up deals.

    Ofcourse, it may not work, but at least there would be a reasonably clean slate from which to construct a new team for a more talented GM.
    Wiggins would be awesome but I wouldn't put all my hopes on him.

    Also, assuming he remains the #1 pick through next year's draft, if the Raps get #1 or 2 next year after getting #1-3 this year (ie. debt not paid to OKC) then Raps keep the pick.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  9. #109
    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Is this directed at me? I'll assume it is.

    If so, yes, I said 8th. I always thought the Raps would contend for the 8th playoff spot but finish below .500. I believe it was 38/39/40 wins I was aiming for. Boy was I WRONG!

    What was all of that predicated on? BARGNANI. I was stoopid enough to think Bargnani the Bargnani we saw in about half the games last year was his coming out party. Boy was I wrong AGAIN! And yes, I am ready to blow it up. San Antonio's best player for years has been their hardest worker. Everything else filters down. In Toronto Bargnani is 'our main guy' and he is soft and lazy and we have seen the filtering down effect.

    What else has changed my prediction?

    A near top 10 defense that is now bottom 5.

    There are other things but why bother? Return to pre '11-12 on defense and Bargnani finally laying his hand on the table.

    Why not let things roll until the trade deadline? This team is NEVER-EVER-EVER getting its act together in its current form (in my opinion of course). *Oh shit, was that Taylor Swift?*
    Not you specifically. It was a collective "you". Plenty of people had them ranked similarly and are now calling for the bomb. I don't know if I have any of the answers. I just wonder how much the injuries, the schedule and the fact that this team is learning how to play together, have affected our standing 1/4 way through the season. It would be nice to see it play out. Maybe I am just as optimistic as a Taylor Swift boyfriend before he gets a song written about him. In either case, this thread has been a great opportunity to try and figure out where this franchise can go.

  10. #110
    Raptors Republic Starter Fuchan's Avatar
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    Just give it two more years, Matt. Bargnani has not adapted to his PF role, he is still working on casey's system. He's working his way back from injury. He will be the next Dirk I tell you!!! #blowthisbitchup

  11. #111
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Wiggins would be awesome but I wouldn't put all my hopes on him.

    Also, assuming he remains the #1 pick through next year's draft, if the Raps get #1 or 2 next year after getting #1-3 this year (ie. debt not paid to OKC) then Raps keep the pick.
    Yes but I think it is better to give up the pick in 2013 than 2014 given the respective strength of the draft classes. Especially in blow up scenario where the Raps will have high slots.

    As for Wiggins, seems to be a once in a decade type player and if you add the Toronto/Canadian aspect, really it's once in a lifetime. I would recommend committing 100% to optimizing the chances.

  12. #112
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote pakdawgie wrote: View Post
    Yes but I think it is better to give up the pick in 2013 than 2014 given the respective strength of the draft classes. Especially in blow up scenario where the Raps will have high slots.

    As for Wiggins, seems to be a once in a decade type player and if you add the Toronto/Canadian aspect, really it's once in a lifetime. I would recommend committing 100% to optimizing the chances.
    First paragraph: Oh yeah. I am in agreement on that. This draft really looks bad. That could all change. Last year was suppose to be the be all and end all but it turned out to be an average draft.

    Second paragraph: Oh yeah. I am in agreement on that. Raps should be doing everything possible to get as many unprotected 2014 picks as possible. Much, much easier said than done, I know. Washington would be on my speed dial right now. Phoenix too. Milwaukee three. Since these teams can't trade their picks outright due to protections with other teams, I'd be looking to make deals to swap picks with teams like Sacramento, Detroit, and Charlotte.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  13. #113
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    Trades I would do right now (that are at least somewhat realistic):

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=agmbacc

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ag2ubpv

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bk9eoye

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bt8qovs (this one only works if Philly actually thought they would resign Bynum and have him be a piece and weren't just using his contract to clear the books)

    I don't think we'll get more than this, and even the Milwaukee trade might be wishful thinking.

  14. #114
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Ben Golliver at SI.com nailed it 2 dreadful loses ago:
    Right now, the arguments for moving on from the Colangelo/Bargnani era appear far stronger than the arguments for staying the course. An array of teammates have cycled through around Bargnani, producing nothing but middling results. Multiple coaches have tried to crack the puzzle, to no avail. Colangelo has doled out more than his fair share of bad or questionable contracts (Hedo Turkoglu, Amir Johnson, Linas Kleiza, Landry Fields, DeMar Derozan, etc). Even the rays of hope –DeRozan, Jonas Valanciunas and Terrence Ross– are not guaranteed to form a winning core in the future. Taken together, the current turmoil has the developing feel of a crossroads commonly reached by perpetually struggling franchises: the moment when it becomes clear a drastic change in direction couldn’t possibly be worse than maintaining the status quo.

    http://nba.si.com/2012/12/09/raptors.../?sct=uk_wr_a3
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  15. #115
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/...er-crossroads/

    I am glad I had a box of tissues near.

    This is complete and utter sadness.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  16. #116
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    I support this thread 100%. The only thing that matters in the NBA is talent; everything else is hyperbole and cliches. Even hopeless franchises like the Clips and the Wolves can be rescued from themselves by a few good draft choices. Nothing scares me more than BC trying to rescue this season at the deadline by dealing for an overpriced name or two.

  17. #117
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    I support this thread 100%. The only thing that matters in the NBA is talent; everything else is hyperbole and cliches. Even hopeless franchises like the Clips and the Wolves can be rescued from themselves by a few good draft choices. Nothing scares me more than BC trying to rescue this season at the deadline by dealing for an overpriced name or two.
    With his contract coming to an end, it becomes even more likely

  18. #118
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/...er-crossroads/

    I am glad I had a box of tissues near.

    This is complete and utter sadness.
    Found this part of the article rather interesting:

    Quote National Post wrote:
    According to sources, the team meeting following the 131-99 loss in Utah involved heavy criticism of Bargnani from his teammates, with some also directed towards point guard Lowry for overly self-centred play.
    Didn't want to speculate whether there was finger-pointing going on within the locker-room or not, but clearly, fingers have been pointed.



    Also interesting was:
    Quote National Post wrote:
    He is finally being shopped, which means even Colangelo is giving up the ghost. But right now, there are no takers.
    In Masai we Trust.

  19. #119
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    Quote Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
    With his contract coming to an end, it becomes even more likely
    Exactly! That's why it's so terrifying. And as the Bruce Arthur Matt52 posted notes, BC has taken the 'magic bullet' approach before and failed miserably.

  20. #120
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    I think a lot of Lowry's self-centred play comes from him being frustrated with the terrible offense he is forced to run. An example of this was in Portland where he was waiting for the team to run the play, but they didn't do anything so he jacked up a long 3. I know i sound like a Lowry-homer but it's hard to blame him IMO

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