Blow it up..... seriously

[Nilanka]

I've been advocating for going the draft route for a while now, as it's the only way to have a solid chance at acquiring elite level talent for shall we say less attractive destinations for American players.

You could say that this year is a weak draft crop, but we did get JV in what was considered a weak draft and we could have had Aldridge in a weak draft when BC took Bargnani instead.

So first thing we have to do is get our pick back from OKC. Can anyone think of anyone on this team that OKC might want?

Good point. A "weak" draft can still produce an impact player.

[Matt52]

I support this message.

I can't get behind.

Accepting the current situation ignores the last 5 seasons, condones mediocrity, and shows just how low the bar is set for Raptor fans.

[Matt52]

Good point. A "weak" draft can still produce an impact player.

Yup.

Bargs draft class: Gay at 9. Rondo 21. Alridge 4. Roy (extreme example but was a 3x All-Star) 5.

[Raptorfanatic]

There is no need to blow it up but we need a balance between veterans and young players.

For several years now the Raptor's having been missing 2 key elements.... a solid post presence (rebounding & defense.... remember BC tried to acquire Tyson Chandler) and shooting forward. Fix these areas and you will see big change.

Instead of drafting Valanciunas and Ross , we could have drafted Khawi Leonard, SF and Drummond, C.
While Valanciunas and Ross are great prospects, I believe Leonard, and Drummond were better fits.

Also money saved on Bosh's departure could have been used to go after Al Jefferson that fits the Raptor's needs. If we keep Bargnani we need a center that can compensate for Bargnani's weaknesses on defense.

[Matt52]

I think I would rather have a perennially competitive team that is not dependent upon a single star. My dream is to have a team like Denver. Lots of cogs in the wheel, well-coached basketball. I would rather not have to wait 5 years (past + future "rebuilding") in the hopes of landing a single player that may or may not turn into the player that we need, who may or may not stick with the Raps after getting out of the "rebuilding" phase. I don't think this team is that far away, despite its record. So descending further into the rebuild seems crazy to me at this point in the season. Maybe my tune will change after the all-star break.

Trade Bargs. Its gotta happen. See what we get back. Maybe it is a draft pick. Maybe we get back an expiring. I dunno what's out there. But I think this has to be the first chip to fall before other more drastic changes are considered.

And Denver's team as currently constructed is primarily a result of successful draft picks and asset accumulation leading to asset acquisition.

[Matt52]

There is no need to blow it up but we need a balance between veterans and young players.

For several years now the Raptor's having been missing 2 key elements.... a solid post presence (rebounding & defense.... remember BC tried to acquire Tyson Chandler) and shooting forward. Fix these areas and you will see big change.

Instead of drafting Valanciunas and Ross , we could have drafted Khawi Leonard, SF and Drummond, C.
While Valanciunas and Ross are great prospects, I believe Leonard, and Drummond were better fits.

Also money saved on Bosh's departure could have been used to go after Al Jefferson that fits the Raptor's needs. If we keep Bargnani we need a center that can compensate for Bargnani's weaknesses on defense.

The team has reached the point of needing to be blown up in my obvious opinion.

All those shoulda, coulda, woulda mean nothing moving forward.

All those shoulda, coulda, woulda highlight is any blow up needs to be done with new leadership.

#No3rdYearOption

[joey_hesketh]

I would very much keep JV, DD, TR, and ED unless their inclusion in a deal brought back more desirable assets. Everyone else is expendable.

Okay, this minor clarification makes a huge difference in my response. Lol
Although, I wouldn't be against keeping Amir.

They need talent.

I'm not completely sold that Talent is the big problem here.

removes the Raptors from having a ceiling of a first round exit,

At this point, I'm not sure we've seen enough from this roster to speculate what their ceiling is. In my opinion.
We have some very talented players on this roster, who have not been playing the way it is known they can play.
Whether or not they ever will, I'm not sure. But I'm not ready to speculate on that yet.

[Nilanka]

At this point, I'm not sure we've seen enough from this roster to speculate what their ceiling is. In my opinion.
We have some very talented players on this roster, who have not been playing the way it is known they can play.
Whether or not they ever will, I'm not sure. But I'm not ready to speculate on that yet.

IMO, "real" talent is evident from day-1. Guys like LeBron, Durant, Howard, Duncan, Shaq, Vince, etc. don't need 3+ years to learn how to dominate. Their immense skill is on display from the moment they start their NBA careers.

That's the type of talent this team needs to get out of the cellar, and I can confidently say we don't have anyone that fits this description (including Jonas).

[Matt52]

IMO, "real" talent is evident from day-1. Guys like LeBron, Durant, Howard, Duncan, Shaq, Vince, etc. don't need 3+ years to learn how to dominate. Their immense skill is on display from the moment they start their NBA careers.

That's the type of talent this team needs to get out of the cellar, and I can confidently say we don't have anyone that fits this description (including Jonas).

+1

And if the goal is to build a team like Detroit 2000's run or current team like Denver, then they need to acquire more prospects and draft picks to get the solid players needed via trade or draft to grow together and compete.

[KHD]

IMO, "real" talent is evident from day-1. Guys like LeBron, Durant, Howard, Duncan, Shaq, Vince, etc. don't need 3+ years to learn how to dominate. Their immense skill is on display from the moment they start their NBA careers.

That's the type of talent this team needs to get out of the cellar, and I can confidently say we don't have anyone that fits this description (including Jonas).

Guys like this are like lottery tickets though. For each of them, there are many incredible players who do take a bit more development time. These late bloomers won't necessarily be superstars, but they can become all-star level talent, and that's a more realistic thing to focus on.

Still don't think they should keep the current team together though. I'm advocating going all out for 2014 draft acquisitions. I'd move anyone on this team besides JV. If we have to take on some bad contracts to get 1st round 2014 picks in the lottery range, we should do it. Those bad contracts will disappear before the prospects we could draft in 2014 do.

[joey_hesketh]

Accepting the current situation ignores the last 5 seasons, condones mediocrity, and shows just how low the bar is set for Raptor fans.

Disagree.
I'm not sure anyone is 'Accepting' the current situation. Nor do they 'condone' it. It just 'is'.

So instead of planning the exit of so-and-so, and then basing another assumption off of that previous assumption; I will just assume we will improve from within.

Perhaps I am blind with optimism, but I'd rather that, than be blinded by pescimism (not saying you are, just speaking in general).

[Matt52]

Just to clarify (and this will be put in the original post as well):

What do I mean by blow it up?

1. fire management
2. trade current veterans (Bargnani, Calderon, Kleiza, Amir) for worse contracts, like the worse of the worst in the league, for draft picks
3. realize the current building process of the team is a giant FAIL and its ceiling is mediocrity if all goes according to plan.... for the love of sweet baby jesus the Raptors are the 2nd worst team in the league 21 games in!
4. play the youth (DD, ED, TR, JV)

The Raptors are actually ahead of the game on this process. They already have 3-4 decent young players. Another 2-3 drafts with multiple draft picks should do it. And if it does not, well, they'll be no worse off than they currently are: 2nd worst team in the league.

[Matt52]

Disagree.
I'm not sure anyone is 'Accepting' the current situation. Nor do they 'condone' it. It just 'is'.

So instead of planning the exit of so-and-so, and then basing another assumption off of that previous assumption; I will just assume we will improve from within.

Perhaps I am blind with optimism, but I'd rather that, than be blinded by pescimism (not saying you are, just speaking in general).

Disagree, as well.


I've always been happy to agree to disagree and now is no different.

Here is the reality: the Raptors are 4-17. They have lost to great, average, and bad teams in a variety of ways but in the end it all comes down to the same outcome much more often than not: they lose. They are a bottom 10 offensive team and a bottom 3 defensive team. The Raptors are bad on one side of the ball and awful on the other.

I disagree about accepting or condoning, as well, surprise. When the GM is saying talent is not the issue, well, it is obvious his time is up and throwing DC and TR under the bus is further proof to the situation.

[joey_hesketh]

1. fire management
2. play the youth (DD, ED, TR, JV)

Fully support and agree with these two.

[joey_hesketh]

Here is the reality: the Raptors are 4-17. They have lost to great, average, and bad teams in a variety of ways but in the end it all comes down to the same outcome much more often than not: they lose. They are a bottom 10 offensive team and a bottom 3 defensive team. The Raptors are bad on one side of the ball and awful on the other.

Can't disagree with any of this.
Perhaps it is in how we respond to this negative situation, where our disagreement lies.

I disagree about accepting or condoning, as well, surprise. When the GM is saying talent is not the issue, well, it is obvious his time is up and throwing DC and TR under the bus is further proof to the situation.

Apologies, I wasn't including BC in this. I thought you meant fans had accepted and condone the bad play. My bad.

[TRex]

THe only way the Raps can get an all-star calibre type of talent in my opinion is through draft. Not sure i'm willing to watch 2 straight seasons of tanking though just to have a chance to draft Wiggins. And even if we let's say finish with the worst record in 2014, there is NO guarantee that we're going to get the 1st overall pick.

The Raps only hope right now is for JV to develop faster and DeRozan to continue to improve his game. Because after those 2, there's not much talent here.

[black angus]

Fire Wayne Embry!

[Matt52]

Can't disagree with any of this.
Perhaps it is in how we respond to this negative situation, where our disagreement lies.



Apologies, I wasn't including BC in this. I thought you meant fans had accepted and condone the bad play. My bad.

I might be a whiney bitch but I only want change. What is currently being done is not working. I don't think staying on the current course is going to take us to the promised land (and my promised land is a contender - not necessarily a champion but wouldn't' that be sweet).

[c_bcm]

And Denver's team as currently constructed is primarily a result of successful draft picks and asset accumulation leading to asset acquisition.

Which is exactly what BC has been doing. The difference, of course, in the current state of the 2 teams is the fleecing of NYK, which could never be accomplished with second-tier talent like Bosh.

[joey_hesketh]

I might be a whiney bitch but I only want change.

Hahahaha I never said that!!
I guess in the end, ultimately, we all want the same thing: A team we can be proud of.
How we get there doesn't really matter. As long as we do.