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Thread: Grange: What is Colangelo's biggest error in Toronto?

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Grange: What is Colangelo's biggest error in Toronto?

    From Twitter:

    Michael Grange ‏@michaelgrange

    For those who would have Colangelo ousted; I'm curious: his biggest error? #RTZ

    I think it is a good question.

    What do you think his biggest error has been?
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    It's either deciding to build around Bosh, or deciding to build around Bargnani.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    It's either deciding to build around Bosh.
    Pretty sure he was hired for this sole reason. Not sure it was really his decision.
    And people need to stop pretending Bosh was anything near as good as Carmelo/DWill, and therefore we should have gotten a huge package back for him. We would have been lucky to get a lottery pick for him.
    In Masai we Trust.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    It's either deciding to build around Bosh, or deciding to build around Bargnani.
    +1

    Its a toss up for me aswell on those two because building around Bosh was the initial mistake, but building around Bargnani was a blatantly foolish move.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    It's either deciding to build around Bosh, or deciding to build around Bargnani.
    Keeping in mind that we've never been able to attract a franchise player through free agency and franchise players aren't players that can be easily traded for what could he have done? It's a making lemonade out of lemons situation.

    Ofcourse, he could have tanked to try and get some high draft picks, and hopefully landed a true franchise player, but you know as he likes to say, tanking is not in his DNA.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    In thinking of this, I came up with a lot of possibilities. But given what has transpired this season with #tradeBargnani, I'm rolling with this - final answer:

    When he fired Sam Mitchell. It was that firing that has created the culture of coddling Bargnani by everyone within the organization. That decision has created a double standard and lack of accountability for Bargnani while placing coaches in a situation where their integrity is questioned based on the words they speak and the actions people see.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    When he fired Sam Mitchell.
    You know Matt, I love it when we agree.
    In Masai we Trust.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    You know Matt, I love it when we agree.
    Pffffft!

    So boring.

    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    In thinking of this, I came up with a lot of possibilities. But given what has transpired this season with #tradeBargnani, I'm rolling with this - final answer:

    When he fired Sam Mitchell. It was that firing that has created the culture of coddling Bargnani by everyone within the organization. That decision has created a double standard and lack of accountability for Bargnani while placing coaches in a situation where their integrity is questioned based on the words they speak and the actions people see.
    I don't know if there is any proof of coach Mitchell having been fired because he was tough on Bargnani and held him accountable, so I don't know if it's proper to make that statement.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I don't know if there is any proof of coach Mitchell having been fired because he was tough on Bargnani and held him accountable, so I don't know if it's proper to make that statement.
    It was super-obvious. Tough love, not speaking to AB throughout pre-season. It was there man. Pairing Evans with Bargs as his rebounding assistant was the last straw for me.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    That pairing was during Triano's era btw.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I don't know if there is any proof of coach Mitchell having been fired because he was tough on Bargnani and held him accountable, so I don't know if it's proper to make that statement.
    That is fair and true enough.

    I was going on rumours over the years that may or may not actually be factual.

    Good call.

    Regardless of the rationale I gave, everything went to hell in a handcart when Mitchell was fired so I'm sticking with it. Now would he have made a difference? We'll never know.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Deadallus's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    That is fair and true enough.

    I was going on rumours over the years that may or may not actually be factual.

    Good call.

    Regardless of the rationale I gave, everything went to hell in a handcart when Mitchell was fired so I'm sticking with it. Now would he have made a difference? We'll never know.
    I don't think the firing was a result of how Mitchell handled Bargs, but I don't think any coach since else has slapped him around the way Sam Mitchell did.
    Deadallus

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I don't know if there is any proof of coach Mitchell having been fired because he was tough on Bargnani and held him accountable, so I don't know if it's proper to make that statement.
    But you have to admit that an 8-9 start isn't disastrous enough to warrant dismissal (especially when you factor in Triano's record for the remainder of the season).

    There must've been something else going on that helped Smitch through the door. Whether it was Bargnani or not, who knows.
    Last edited by Nilanka; Wed Dec 12th, 2012 at 12:19 PM.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    But you have to admit that an 8-9 start isn't disastrous enough to warrant dismissal (especially when you factor in Triano's record for the remainder of the season).

    There must've been something else going on that helped Smitch through the door. Whether it was Bargnani or not, who knows.
    No, he wanted to be the Executive Coach, and Sam said, stay out of my job.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    But you have to admit that an 8-9 start isn't disastrous enough to warrant dismissal (especially when you factor in Triano's record for the remainder of the season).

    There must've been something else going on that helped Smitch through the door. Whether it was Bargnani or not, who knows.
    Absolutely, but just would not say it as a statement unless I had some proof of it. Could have been that Bosh whom was the face of the franchise at that time wanted him gone for all we know.
    Last edited by Mediumcore; Wed Dec 12th, 2012 at 01:02 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Starter connected's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    But you have to admit that an 8-9 start isn't disastrous enough to warrant dismissal (especially when you factor in Triano's record for the remainder of the season).

    There must've been something else going on that helped Smitch through the door. Whether it was Bargnani or not, who knows.
    maybe he wrestled more players than just Vince

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote connected wrote: View Post
    maybe he wrestled more players than just Vince
    Well, he did make Rafer Alston cry....
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I don't know if there is any proof of coach Mitchell having been fired because he was tough on Bargnani and held him accountable, so I don't know if it's proper to make that statement.
    Officially - to the press anyways, Mitchell was fired because after starting off 8-7, the Raptors lost 2 straight and fell to 8-9. Colangelo then fired Mitchell because "the team was better than their 8-9 record"

    For me, it was not just the firing of Mitchell but also hiring of Triano. When Mitchell was fired I admit I was a believer in Colangelo and I expected him to hire a renown coach. But then he hired Triano on an interim basis and then full-time the following season. I immediately began to believe this was a publicity stunt to have the first "Canadian" coach coaching a Canadian-based/owned team.

    I also believe that Colangelo wasn't happy with the way Mitchell was using Bargnani

    Looking back though Mitchell's 8-9 team was an 8-9 or .500 club.

    Speaking of Mitchell, it seems we've (Canadians and Raptor Fans) have been speaking about Mitchell a lot and he's been featured on some of our sports channels. I guess we really miss him.......

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    Colangelo may not have one failure that stands out but he makes many marginally poor moves that consistently degrade the talent on this team.
    Examples?

    Trades

    Charlie V. >>> TJ Ford (plus 1st round pick) >>> Jermaine O'neal >>> Shawn Marion >>>> Turkoglu >>>> Barbosa >>>>> 2nd rounder
    Net result = two first round picks for a second rounder

    First rounder >>> James Johnson >>>> second round pick

    Bosh >>>> nothing

    Signings

    Kleiza 5M/per yr
    Fields 6.6M/per yr
    Amir 5-7M/per yr

    He may not have dicked up any one thing that badly, but his body of work is awful when you think of it.

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