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Thread: Grange: What is Colangelo's biggest error in Toronto?

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Grange: What is Colangelo's biggest error in Toronto?

    From Twitter:

    Michael Grange ‏@michaelgrange

    For those who would have Colangelo ousted; I'm curious: his biggest error? #RTZ

    I think it is a good question.

    What do you think his biggest error has been?
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    It's either deciding to build around Bosh, or deciding to build around Bargnani.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    In thinking of this, I came up with a lot of possibilities. But given what has transpired this season with #tradeBargnani, I'm rolling with this - final answer:

    When he fired Sam Mitchell. It was that firing that has created the culture of coddling Bargnani by everyone within the organization. That decision has created a double standard and lack of accountability for Bargnani while placing coaches in a situation where their integrity is questioned based on the words they speak and the actions people see.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    It's either deciding to build around Bosh.
    Pretty sure he was hired for this sole reason. Not sure it was really his decision.
    And people need to stop pretending Bosh was anything near as good as Carmelo/DWill, and therefore we should have gotten a huge package back for him. We would have been lucky to get a lottery pick for him.
    In Masai we Trust.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Not stepping down

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    When he fired Sam Mitchell.
    You know Matt, I love it when we agree.
    In Masai we Trust.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    You know Matt, I love it when we agree.
    Pffffft!

    So boring.

    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    For me, the biggest error was the Jermaine O'Neal deal. After that 2007-2008 season, it was clear the team had plateaued and needed changes. He had Ford, a first round pick, Rasho's expiring and potentially a guy like Parker to move. He had assets available to him and he traded for a 32-year old broken down big and eviscerated the roster to do so (Wil Solomon anyone?).

    That signing started the downward fall of the team and he spent the next two seasons trying to fix that mistake with the Marion deal and then the ill-fated Turkoglu signing. The team has never recovered from that 2008 season. If he had done what most fans wanted, which was use those assets to bring in an elite wing player, things may look very different today.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    For me it's a toss-up between these 2 things:

    1) Attempting to build around a 'franchise player' who never was (and never could become) a true franchise player to be built around (ie: Bosh, Bargnani, soon to be DeRozan and likely eventually Valanciunas) --> all subsequent roster moves have been predicated on a fundamentally flawed strategy that leaves the team destined to fail.

    2) Rushing the post-Bosh era rebuild, after initially starting out on the right foot --> had BC approached last season as another 'rebuilding' season (instead of rushing into 'building' mode) and then approached this season as the first 'building' season (instead of rushing into 'competing' mode), this franchise could actually be headed someplace positive (though that positive place would be limited by the fact that BC was continuing to build around Bargnani/DeRozan as illegitimate franchise cornerstones - see #1).

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Other errors:

    1. Turkoglu signing
    2. Hiring Jay Triano
    3. Not moving Bosh sooner
    4. Bargnani
    5. Pretty much everything in the last 3 offseasons

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    It's either deciding to build around Bosh, or deciding to build around Bargnani.
    +1

    Its a toss up for me aswell on those two because building around Bosh was the initial mistake, but building around Bargnani was a blatantly foolish move.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Holding on to Bargnani for as long as he has.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    1) Attempting to build around a 'franchise player' who never was (and never could become) a true franchise player to be built around (ie: Bosh, Bargnani, soon to be DeRozan and likely eventually Valanciunas) --> all subsequent roster moves have been predicated on a fundamentally flawed strategy that leaves the team destined to fail.
    See, I don't agree with this at all. Bosh, plus a player as good as Bosh would have been a 50-win team and a serious playoff contender but BC never found that guy. Even a "franchise" player like Lebron, Durant, Duncan, etc. can't win by himself. Bosh never played with another all-star in Toronto. I really dislike the Bosh bashing in Raptorland...

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    In thinking of this, I came up with a lot of possibilities. But given what has transpired this season with #tradeBargnani, I'm rolling with this - final answer:

    When he fired Sam Mitchell. It was that firing that has created the culture of coddling Bargnani by everyone within the organization. That decision has created a double standard and lack of accountability for Bargnani while placing coaches in a situation where their integrity is questioned based on the words they speak and the actions people see.
    I don't know if there is any proof of coach Mitchell having been fired because he was tough on Bargnani and held him accountable, so I don't know if it's proper to make that statement.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I don't know if there is any proof of coach Mitchell having been fired because he was tough on Bargnani and held him accountable, so I don't know if it's proper to make that statement.
    It was super-obvious. Tough love, not speaking to AB throughout pre-season. It was there man. Pairing Evans with Bargs as his rebounding assistant was the last straw for me.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    It's either deciding to build around Bosh, or deciding to build around Bargnani.
    Keeping in mind that we've never been able to attract a franchise player through free agency and franchise players aren't players that can be easily traded for what could he have done? It's a making lemonade out of lemons situation.

    Ofcourse, he could have tanked to try and get some high draft picks, and hopefully landed a true franchise player, but you know as he likes to say, tanking is not in his DNA.

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    That pairing was during Triano's era btw.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Other errors:

    1. Turkoglu signing
    2. Hiring Jay Triano
    3. Not moving Bosh sooner
    4. Bargnani
    5. Pretty much everything in the last 3 offseasons
    Turk was the prize free-agent that year. And we had money to spend. And we needed a SF. And EVERYONE was excited about the signing ... until Turk shit the bed. Hindsight is great, isn't it?


    And as for 'Not moving Bosh earlier', I'll repeat myself .. I think what people expected to get back for Bosh is FAR more than what was actually possible. Because he wouldn't commit to staying, teams knew they had a chance to get him for nothing; but because he didn't commit to leaving, teams wouldn't risk trading for him, only to have him leave at the end of the season.
    In Masai we Trust.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I don't know if there is any proof of coach Mitchell having been fired because he was tough on Bargnani and held him accountable, so I don't know if it's proper to make that statement.
    That is fair and true enough.

    I was going on rumours over the years that may or may not actually be factual.

    Good call.

    Regardless of the rationale I gave, everything went to hell in a handcart when Mitchell was fired so I'm sticking with it. Now would he have made a difference? We'll never know.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Turk was the prize free-agent that year. And we had money to spend. And we needed a SF. And EVERYONE was excited about the signing ... until Turk shit the bed. Hindsight is great, isn't it?

    Oh, stop with the hindsight nonsense.... If you can't use hindsight you can never evaluate anyone. Plus, there were plenty of us who thought the Turkoglu signing was stupid. The Orlando GM and SVG were telling everyone the guy was lazy and didn't care and that Portland dodged a bullet. None of that was hindsight.

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