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Thread: Grange: What is Colangelo's biggest error in Toronto?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    Getting in touch with his Italian heritage. (it made him have tunnel vision)

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    For me, the biggest error was the Jermaine O'Neal deal. After that 2007-2008 season, it was clear the team had plateaued and needed changes. He had Ford, a first round pick, Rasho's expiring and potentially a guy like Parker to move. He had assets available to him and he traded for a 32-year old broken down big and eviscerated the roster to do so (Wil Solomon anyone?).

    That signing started the downward fall of the team and he spent the next two seasons trying to fix that mistake with the Marion deal and then the ill-fated Turkoglu signing. The team has never recovered from that 2008 season. If he had done what most fans wanted, which was use those assets to bring in an elite wing player, things may look very different today.
    +1. I was going to point this out, but, i consider this as an error in hindsight. If it worked, the Raptors will not be in this situation right now, we'd have the best frontcourt in the league plus a 7 foot shooter coming off the bench instead of being the so-called franchise player.

    One true error i can think of was the allowing of Jorge Garbajosa to participate in euroball despite the fact that it was already known he was having injury problems.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Trying to build "Phoenix east". That period where all the players he signed were for offensive purposes and all we wanted to do was score set us back a lot and started this no defense culture that we have now. If Colangelo had been thinking defense and accountability from the beginning a lot of the problems we've seen would have never happened and Sam Mitchell, who is still the best coach we've had, might still be running the team.
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  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    The more I think about it, the answer is:


    Not being able to admit to his mistakes. (thinking he could correct all moves for a premium, and costing us down the road...)

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    I don't know what his biggest error was in his time in Toronto, but I'd say not being able to pull off a proper tank last season was amongst them. If you look at any of the players picked before Toronto chose Ross, you could make a case for them being a better fit. I like Terrence, but our best player this season shares the same position Terrence would play.

    I'd have to throw in the contract for Fields into the list of errors because unless Landry comes back and plays well we're are stuck with that contract until it expires. Also, depending on how much you value Hibbert, trading his draft rights to Indiana was pretty awful as well.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Oh, stop with the hindsight nonsense.... If you can't use hindsight you can never evaluate anyone. Plus, there were plenty of us who thought the Turkoglu signing was stupid. The Orlando GM and SVG were telling everyone the guy was lazy and didn't care and that Portland dodged a bullet. None of that was hindsight.

    Thank You.

    I find the arguments that include 'everyone knew or thought at the time it was a good move' so, for a lack of a better term, lame. Events such as JO, Hedo, trading Bosh etc were surrounded by people of varying opinions. If someone thought it was a good move, or the majority though it was a good move, doesn't mean everyone did.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I don't know if there is any proof of coach Mitchell having been fired because he was tough on Bargnani and held him accountable, so I don't know if it's proper to make that statement.
    But you have to admit that an 8-9 start isn't disastrous enough to warrant dismissal (especially when you factor in Triano's record for the remainder of the season).

    There must've been something else going on that helped Smitch through the door. Whether it was Bargnani or not, who knows.
    Last edited by Nilanka; Wed Dec 12th, 2012 at 12:19 PM.
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  8. #28
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    Thank You.

    I find the arguments that include 'everyone knew or thought at the time it was a good move' so, for a lack of a better term, lame. Events such as JO, Hedo, trading Bosh etc were surrounded by people of varying opinions. If someone thought it was a good move, or the majority though it was a good move, doesn't mean everyone did.
    Very true.

    I first discovered RR in the summer of 2009 (before the start of Bosh's final season as a Raptor) to argue in favor of trading him that offseason. I thought he was overrated but, most importantly, I was 100% sold that he would never re-sign with Toronto. At that time there were many more teams in the conversation (NYK, HOU and PHI chief among them), since the list wasn't determined by Bosh as he was still under contract. I was part of a very small minority back then.

    I also hated both the O'Neal trade and the Turkoglu S&T deal. Like somebody else mentioned, I was hoping that BC would use his assets (ie: Ford, Rasho, draft picks) to acquire a star SF. Trading for O'Neal (and then Turkoglue) and trading for Jack, both in weak short-sighted attempts to appease Bosh, was an absolutely dreadful team-building strategy.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    1. Not Trading Bosh
    2. Drafting Bargs
    3.Turkeypoo
    4.Firing Sam Mitchell
    5. Hiring Triano

  10. #30
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    Meddling in the coaches job, which means that he is contemplating his 4th coach in 6 years.

    That, and having the lowest wins / payroll ratio in the NBA last year. I would hate to think what it is this year.

  11. #31
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    But you have to admit that an 8-9 start isn't disastrous enough to warrant dismissal (especially when you factor in Triano's record for the remainder of the season).

    There must've been something else going on that helped Smitch through the door. Whether it was Bargnani or not, who knows.
    No, he wanted to be the Executive Coach, and Sam said, stay out of my job.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Starter KHD's Avatar
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    Firing Sam was not a mistake, just badly timed. The man was a terrible coach. His successors haven't been any better, sadly.

  13. #33
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Oh, stop with the hindsight nonsense.... If you can't use hindsight you can never evaluate anyone. Plus, there were plenty of us who thought the Turkoglu signing was stupid. The Orlando GM and SVG were telling everyone the guy was lazy and didn't care and that Portland dodged a bullet. None of that was hindsight.

    Interesting, what team does he play for now?

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    Trying to build "Phoenix east". That period where all the players he signed were for offensive purposes and all we wanted to do was score set us back a lot and started this no defense culture that we have now. If Colangelo had been thinking defense and accountability from the beginning a lot of the problems we've seen would have never happened and Sam Mitchell, who is still the best coach we've had, might still be running the team.
    I saw an article somewhere yesterday talking about Phoenix now Toronto West.
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  15. #35
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    But you have to admit that an 8-9 start isn't disastrous enough to warrant dismissal (especially when you factor in Triano's record for the remainder of the season).

    There must've been something else going on that helped Smitch through the door. Whether it was Bargnani or not, who knows.
    Absolutely, but just would not say it as a statement unless I had some proof of it. Could have been that Bosh whom was the face of the franchise at that time wanted him gone for all we know.
    Last edited by Mediumcore; Wed Dec 12th, 2012 at 01:02 PM.

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    I have to say the JO signing was a move I really liked at the time. I thought he would have been a perfect fit next to Bosh and for the most part I felt they played pretty well next to each other for the limited time of the pairing. I don't have stats to back me up, but I felt that the surrounding cast of Parker, Calderon etc... had down years with perimeter shooting which is why the team wasn't able to exploit their strength on the inside. May not have worked out well, but I thought that was a smart move at the time.

    But hey, atleast we were able to move JO's contract to Miami and help them clear enough cap space to eventually sign their big 3. I feel so happy about their success that I could just barf.

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Starter hotfuzz's Avatar
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    Here's what Colangelo had when he signed.

    1. A star on a rookie contract (Bosh)
    2. A 1st overall draft pick.
    3. A weak division.
    4. Tonnes of cap space.
    5. 2 players who played in rookie challenge.

    That was then and here we are now. The second worst team in the league with only 2 wins in the playoffs to show for in the last 7 years.

    *Sigh*
    Last edited by hotfuzz; Wed Dec 12th, 2012 at 01:18 PM.
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  18. #38
    Raptors Republic Starter c_bcm's Avatar
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    His biggest error? Great question. I think it was promoting Jay Triano to head coach. I understand why he made the decision, I just think it was the worst thing for this franchise at that pivotal point. It seems in hindsight to have been a delay tactic to wait for his guy to become available. The problem is, i'm not sure he ever had "a guy" in mind. Casey came highly recommended, so he just went with that.

    I will never fault him for the personnel moves he's made. The players, while flawed, were much hyped at the time (and not just by Toronto media). The real flaw is his failure to establish a culture through his coach. For the record I like Casey and hope he sticks around. Just having to go through Jay Triano for so long was so bad...the worst IMHO.

  19. #39
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    This may not qualify as a single error, but to me the biggest issue has been an excessive amount of roster turnaround that has produced zero continuity/growth and unearthed zero consistent role players. You would think that after 7 years of constantly bringing in new faces, a few would have stuck (outside of Amir Johnson, who is obviously overpayed). But after 7 years of trading away second round picks, taking flyers on guys like Moon and trading for high draft picks that had fallen out of favour with other teams, there is literally nothing to show for it. I can forgive the draft picks, I can forgive the deals that didn't pan out, I can forgive not fully committing to the rebuild, but how you can turn the roster over year after year and not find a few players to keep long-term is a bit mind-blowing. It just speaks to how fractured and uncertain the team's direction has been year after year, how BC has been reacting instead of planning ahead.

  20. #40
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    This may not qualify as a single error, but to me the biggest issue has been an excessive amount of roster turnaround that has produced zero continuity/growth and unearthed zero consistent role players. You would think that after 7 years of constantly bringing in new faces, a few would have stuck (outside of Amir Johnson, who is obviously overpayed). But after 7 years of trading away second round picks, taking flyers on guys like Moon and trading for high draft picks that had fallen out of favour with other teams, there is literally nothing to show for it. I can forgive the draft picks, I can forgive the deals that didn't pan out, I can forgive not fully committing to the rebuild, but how you can turn the roster over year after year and not find a few players to keep long-term is a bit mind-blowing. It just speaks to how fractured and uncertain the team's direction has been year after year, how BC has been reacting instead of planning ahead.
    Agreed.

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