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Thread: Grange: What is Colangelo's biggest error in Toronto?

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Starter c_bcm's Avatar
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    This may not qualify as a single error, but to me the biggest issue has been an excessive amount of roster turnaround that has produced zero continuity/growth and unearthed zero consistent role players. You would think that after 7 years of constantly bringing in new faces, a few would have stuck (outside of Amir Johnson, who is obviously overpayed). But after 7 years of trading away second round picks, taking flyers on guys like Moon and trading for high draft picks that had fallen out of favour with other teams, there is literally nothing to show for it. I can forgive the draft picks, I can forgive the deals that didn't pan out, I can forgive not fully committing to the rebuild, but how you can turn the roster over year after year and not find a few players to keep long-term is a bit mind-blowing. It just speaks to how fractured and uncertain the team's direction has been year after year, how BC has been reacting instead of planning ahead.
    Yep he's been in panic his entire tenure. Seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

  2. #42
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    Quote hotfuzz wrote: View Post
    Here's what Colangelo had when he signed.

    1. A star on a rookie contract (Bosh)
    2. A 1st overall draft pick.
    3. A weak division.
    4. Tonnes of cap space.
    5. 2 players who played in rookie challenge.

    That was then and here we are now. The second worst team in the league with only 2 wins in the playoffs to show for in the last 7 years.

    *Sigh*
    +1 Sometimes when I think I'm being too hard on BC, I remind myself of exactly this. How many lifetimes would it take any other GM to screw up a situation that starts this way, the way BC has?!

    For me it was never 1 single move that pinpoints BC's idiocy, its been the entirety of his 7 year stretch. *IF* I had to choose one though (and I guess this still technically isn't just one), it would be Bargs and all Bargs related moves as a whole. #1 pick in a weak draft? Take a soft jump shooter that plays the same position as your allstar instead of trying to trade down or package with another guy for a wing to compliment Bosh. Trade for JO? Compensating for Bargnani's crappy defense and protect Bosh. Bargnani up for an extension? Bid against himself. and an overbid at that. Now finally, holding onto Bargs until his value is at an all time low and splintering this team.

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic Starter IROR's Avatar
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    Trading for Jermaine Oneal was when BC started making his shitbed. The franchise was at a crossroads, had to make a move and it was the wrong move, in hindsight. Even going in there was a very high risk, with a very low reward. Everyone knew J.O. wasn't going to be the same guy he was before his knees went, despite how healthy he said he was.

    Anyways, I guess my main reason is based on where this team would be at if we had drafted any of the listed players instead of trading our pick for J.O. (brace yourself):

    -Roy Hibbert
    -Javaale McGee
    -Ryan Anderson
    -Serge Ibaka
    -Nic Batum

    Not saying any of these players would have dramatically changed the course of things, but that was a tough pick to give up for what we got. We even traded away our second rounder in the same draft (ended up being Goran Dragic). ouch, hindsight is a b****!
    Last edited by IROR; Wed Dec 12th, 2012 at 02:19 PM.

  4. #44
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    Firing Sam was not a mistake, just badly timed. The man was a terrible coach. His successors haven't been any better, sadly.
    Sam was a fine coach. You fans got all emotional when you heard him and Andrea were not on speaking terms due to Andrea's care free attitude. You wanted to stand up for your 7 footer and get him a players coach in Triano that would comfort him. You guys also wanted to play Kapono more, and Sam felt he was defensive liability and played him less. Sam figured out how to use the pieces most effectively. Triano took a much better team and failed miserably by using Bosh less thinking that was the way to retain the big man.

    It was a huge disaster when Sam left the team, each season got worse. COY chased out by realgm fans because they thought their 7 foot hero was 30/15 centre.
    Last edited by BasketballCrush; Wed Dec 12th, 2012 at 02:24 PM.

  5. #45
    Raptors Republic Rookie Fonzi's Avatar
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    There have been many mistakes, but perhaps the biggest was drafting Bargnani over Aldridge.

  6. #46
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Other errors:

    1. Turkoglu signing
    2. Hiring Jay Triano
    3. Not moving Bosh sooner
    4. Bargnani
    5. Pretty much everything in the last 3 offseasons
    1. Turk came off of a breakout year it was actually a good signing if he had actually played the way he did a season prior with the magic he was a beast It made sense why people called him the Turkish MJ.
    2. Jay Triano was Canadian I think that was his logic for that one But I agree I didnt like sam getting fired anyway but it led us to DC which im happy with.
    3. Bosh was always saying I love T.dot I love T.dot and he was a bonafied star so we built around him, problem is Bosh was too weird a person to draw any other stars to play along side him here.
    4. Bargnani was the right choice that draft based on what he could have been/could be/and everything he brought to the table already.
    5. Well ya lol but its not easy bringing ignorant bastards to play here some people think we live in igloos up here in Canada and hunt polar bears and shit. Sounds like a dam Game Of Thrones story.

    And everyone drop the JO thing lol he was a monster around that time and was supposed to be our legit center to play along with Bosh, then his knees exploded and kept exploding.

  7. #47
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Bosh, plus a player as good as Bosh would have been a 50-win team and a serious playoff contender
    Only in the east, and you would never be a real title threat imo. He needs to be your third best player, and we were certainly never going to get two players better than him, we should have traded him a long time before he left

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote Fonzi wrote: View Post
    There have been many mistakes, but perhaps the biggest was drafting Bargnani over Aldridge.
    It's a mistake now, but at the time it wasn't because he was essentially the exact same player as Bosh was

  9. #49
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    I don't think that Colangelo has done the greatest job of building the raptors, but you have to think about his moves in terms of opportunity cost - i.e. what other deals did he pass up to execute the trades he made, what players could he have signed instead of the ones that he did, and what players did he pass on to select the players that he drafted. I argue that BC's tenure has been characterized by a few bad signings but mostly by unfortunate circumstances and bad luck.

    Unfortunately we can never truly know whether there was a better trade available for any deal because we are not privvy to the discussions between NBA general managers. It may be that BC has passed up trades to acquire a true star, but we'll never know what he had to deal with so this is a pointless exercise.

    Looking at the draft, the Raptors have simply had bad luck in terms of their draft positioning. We haven't been in a position to select a stud in years. BC hasn't found gold in the draft since he came to the raptors, but we can't say he has truly missed any opportunities. If he had drafted aldridge instead of bargs, he would have been crucified for selecting a bosh clone. Aldridge was considered soft and definitely not a C at the time of the draft. Rudy Gay had a lot of question marks and could have easily ended up more like Earl Clark. You could argue jennings over derozan, and jennings is good but he's not a franchise-altering star. BC didn't make bad choices in the draft - he has just never been in a position to make good ones other than the JV pick, and I think everyone agrees that he made the best selection there despite the unpopularity of the decision at the time.

  10. #50
    Raptors Republic Starter Deadallus's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    That is fair and true enough.

    I was going on rumours over the years that may or may not actually be factual.

    Good call.

    Regardless of the rationale I gave, everything went to hell in a handcart when Mitchell was fired so I'm sticking with it. Now would he have made a difference? We'll never know.
    I don't think the firing was a result of how Mitchell handled Bargs, but I don't think any coach since else has slapped him around the way Sam Mitchell did.
    Deadallus

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic All-Star KHD's Avatar
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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    Sam was a fine coach. You fans got all emotional when you heard him and Andrea were not on speaking terms due to Andrea's care free attitude. You wanted to stand up for your 7 footer and get him a players coach in Triano that would comfort him. You guys also wanted to play Kapono more, and Sam felt he was defensive liability and played him less. Sam figured out how to use the pieces most effectively. Triano took a much better team and failed miserably by using Bosh less thinking that was the way to retain the big man.

    It was a huge disaster when Sam left the team, each season got worse. COY chased out by realgm fans because they thought their 7 foot hero was 30/15 centre.
    Um, no. I thought Sam was a bad coach because he legitimately had no strategy other than "we just gotta make more shots". My opinion on him had nothing to do with Bargnani, and ESPECIALLY not Kapono, but thanks for playing.

  12. #52
    Raptors Republic Starter imaginelino's Avatar
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    Quote hotfuzz wrote: View Post
    Here's what Colangelo had when he signed.

    1. A star on a rookie contract (Bosh)
    2. A 1st overall draft pick.
    3. A weak division.
    4. Tonnes of cap space.
    5. 2 players who played in rookie challenge.

    That was then and here we are now. The second worst team in the league with only 2 wins in the playoffs to show for in the last 7 years.

    *Sigh*
    I think we won 3 games in the playoffs... Sam Mitchell's Record is 3 and 8. They played Orlando twice in the playoffs if I am mistaken.

  13. #53
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote imaginelino wrote: View Post
    I think we won 3 games in the playoffs... Sam Mitchell's Record is 3 and 8. They played Orlando twice in the playoffs if I am mistaken.
    They played the Nets (lost 4 games to 2) and the Magic the year after (lost 4 games to 1).

  14. #54
    Raptors Republic Starter connected's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    But you have to admit that an 8-9 start isn't disastrous enough to warrant dismissal (especially when you factor in Triano's record for the remainder of the season).

    There must've been something else going on that helped Smitch through the door. Whether it was Bargnani or not, who knows.
    maybe he wrestled more players than just Vince

  15. #55
    Raptors Republic Starter imaginelino's Avatar
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    Ah thats right, the NETS, Calderon botched that shot at the end, BUT anyone remember with a minute or so left a SERIOUSLY BAD call by Tim Donaghy, bets were on that game Im sure. Seriously I don't know what call it was but remember that turned the game and Nets took the lead in the dying minute because of that call.

  16. #56
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    What do you think his biggest error has been?
    That's easy. His biggest error was not reading fan forum posts by ebrian and obeying every command/suggestion I've made.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  17. #57
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    That's easy. His biggest error was not reading fan forum posts by ebrian and obeying every command/suggestion I've made.
    There might be some truth in that.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

  18. #58
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote connected wrote: View Post
    maybe he wrestled more players than just Vince
    Well, he did make Rafer Alston cry....
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  19. #59
    Raptors Republic Superstar ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    His error, was becoming the president and general manager of the Toronto Raptors.

    #No3rdYearOption #TradeBargnani

  20. #60
    Raptors Republic Starter hotfuzz's Avatar
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    Quote imaginelino wrote: View Post
    I think we won 3 games in the playoffs... Sam Mitchell's Record is 3 and 8. They played Orlando twice in the playoffs if I am mistaken.
    2 or 3 games, both are disappointing.
    "Duh! Winning"
    - Charlie Sheen

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