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Thread: Grange: What is Colangelo's biggest error in Toronto?

  1. #61
    Raptors Republic Starter connected's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Well, he did make Rafer Alston cry....
    LOL Did not know about that. What happened?

    I loved skip-to-my-lou

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote imaginelino wrote: View Post
    I think we won 3 games in the playoffs... Sam Mitchell's Record is 3 and 8. They played Orlando twice in the playoffs if I am mistaken.
    Mitchell got out-coached in that Jersey series..... that was on him. The funny thing is, other than his refusal to play MoPete until it was too late, was that he didn't play and ride Bargnani enough..... Jebus, can't believe I wrote that.

  3. #63
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote connected wrote: View Post
    LOL Did not know about that. What happened?

    I loved skip-to-my-lou
    I don't remember the details exactly, but there were some "altercations" behind the scenes between Smitch and Skip, with the latter reportedly being seen in tears, and threatening to retire from the NBA.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Mitchell got out-coached in that Jersey series..... that was on him. The funny thing is, other than his refusal to play MoPete until it was too late, was that he didn't play and ride Bargnani enough..... Jebus, can't believe I wrote that.
    I thought the funniest thing out of that series was how the fans were given red t-shirts and as the home team, we were wearing white. And the Nets were wearing... red.

    Genius move by the Raptors' brass.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  5. #65
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    Mistake 1:
    You're building your team around a "star" player. You get the #1 draft pick. Your choices are:

    1/ a close friend of your "star" player who has stated that he is willing to change his game to play alongside his pal.
    2/ a perimeter player with lots of talent, good size, but has NEVER played Center.

    When it becomes clear you were wrong you hold on to said player for 3 years longer than you should, losing all trade value.

    Mistake 2:

    You fire a "coach of the year" when he is a game below .500, and replace him with a coach with no head coaching experience. You then keep said coach in that position for an unusually long time when comparing that coach's results to the coach he replaced.

    -- I can forgive most personnel mistakes made but I've often wondered why Toronto's scouting system can find people in Europe but can't sort junk from treasure when scouting end of bench vets, or D League players, etc., Some of the cheap available players we've missed is embarrassing. I've found myself hoping they would pick Person A from the D League every year, but instead of filling need, or picking talent every D League player they have ever given a contract during this regime was the top scorer in the league when called up. It's like they just look at pieces of paper, and cross their fingers.

    D League games used to be streamed free online for heaven's sake.

  6. #66
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    Um, no. I thought Sam was a bad coach because he legitimately had no strategy other than "we just gotta make more shots". My opinion on him had nothing to do with Bargnani, and ESPECIALLY not Kapono, but thanks for playing.
    that wasn't a Smitch strategy, that was a Colangelo strategy. Has no one caught on to that yet?

    Smitch, as a player and a coach was never worried about taking more shots until Colangelo came to town.

  7. #67
    Raptors Republic Starter KHD's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    that wasn't a Smitch strategy, that was a Colangelo strategy. Has no one caught on to that yet?

    Smitch, as a player and a coach was never worried about taking more shots until Colangelo came to town.
    Well, his illustrious coaching record pre-Colangelo was a whopping 60-104, and yes, those were bad Raptor teams, but I still don't see why anyone gives Mitchell any sort of vote of confidence.

    The 47 win season was a fluke that caused him to get COTY, nothing more, and it caused him to get re-signed, which was a major mistake.

  8. #68
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    Well, his illustrious coaching record pre-Colangelo was a whopping 60-104, and yes, those were bad Raptor teams, but I still don't see why anyone gives Mitchell any sort of vote of confidence.

    The 47 win season was a fluke that caused him to get COTY, nothing more, and it caused him to get re-signed, which was a major mistake.

    I don't think Smitch was a Phil Jackson, but he also wasn't a bad coach. You said yourself those were bad teams... so exactly why should resigning him have been a mistake? Clearly his firing and the failures the team had afterwards is evidence the teams failures weren't on him.

    Smitch was a fine coach caught up in Colangelo flawed plan.

  9. #69
    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    1. eye for talent
    (bosh, bargani) what made him think they were franchise players

    our small forwards kleiza, james johnson, sonny weems, turkoglu(downward turn of his career),shawn marion(downward turn of his career), jamario moon.

    SG anthony parker, marco belinelli, demar derozan

    center bargani, rasho nesterovic, jermaine o'neal (on his way into retirement)

    someone show me where any combination of those name equals a good team.

  10. #70
    Raptors Republic Starter OzRapFan's Avatar
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    His one biggest mistake, was saying yes to the Toronto job.

  11. #71
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote OzRapFan wrote: View Post
    His one biggest mistake, was saying yes to the Toronto job.
    Maybe for us. Not for him.

    I believe he has made around $25M in his time here.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  12. #72
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Maybe for us. Not for him.

    I believe he has made around $25M in his time here.
    That just made me puke in my mouth

  13. #73
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    It's hard to say anything other than the Mitchell firing. While I believed it was starting to look like Mitchell would never be able to take that team far, as Matt said, it was definitely the start of the coddling Bargnani culture, and the end of accountability.

    BUT....to make this more fun, and talk about players, I'm going to go with one name: Jason Kapono.
    A lot of people like to pick on Hedo, but so many people supported that signing at the time after his run with Orlando. I, and others, always questioned it, especially after seeing the late season success that lineup had with Marion, an athletic, defensive-minded, versatile SF. It was so obviously going to be a bust signing.
    So, I pick the Kapono signing. If I remember, we blew our whole mid level on Kapono the season after we broke out with Bosh and won the division. Now, we can debate how good that team actually was, but the way it was built, that should've been a major signing to help make the team better. As BC always does, he overvalued offense. On a team with Parker, Calderon, Bargnani, Bosh (even if he didn't take lots of 3s), and Deflino, he felt he needed more shooters, and a one-dimensional one at that. I honestly can't remember who else was available or what, but that seriously could not have been the best option, considering how much playing time was given to Jamario Moon and Delfino. He basically had more money than he paid Garbo to find his replacement and chose Kapono, when he probably could have found at least a solid glue guy at that price...sigh

  14. #74
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote BrydenB wrote: View Post
    That just made me puke in my mouth
    lol - seriously.

    I thought it was only in government where incompetence was not only rewarded but glorified.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  15. #75
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Oh, not only did we lose Garbo to his injury, but Mo Pete left...so we lost two high-energy, solid defensive players who could both shoot well enough.

  16. #76
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    There have been a lot of mistakes, and some of this has been brought up already but for me it's essentially not having a proper vision. Building a contender is not easy especially in this market, but history clearly proves that there are some key ingredients in building one. You need a back to the basket center, a wing who can create his own shot, role players that know their role, a defensive mindset, and a team that loves to play with each other. And of course an all-star or two.

    - The best center he ever got was JV which was a fluke since Cleveland passed on him.
    - He never got a proper wing that could create his own shot.
    - He did well with the role players but that should be the last step in building a contender, IMO.
    - The defensive mindset lasted for one shortened season when they were tanking.
    - With the constant losing, and Bargnani coddling I'm not sure if the team ever really liked each other. Bosh bailed as soon as he had a chance. Turk hated it here (he sucked, but still), and the team has not gotten much respect from anyone.
    - The only all-star on the team was Bosh who was drafted by the previous GM and then left in free agency under his watch.

  17. #77
    Raptors Republic Starter Pele's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    It's hard to say anything other than the Mitchell firing. While I believed it was starting to look like Mitchell would never be able to take that team far, as Matt said, it was definitely the start of the coddling Bargnani culture, and the end of accountability.

    BUT....to make this more fun, and talk about players, I'm going to go with one name: Jason Kapono.
    A lot of people like to pick on Hedo, but so many people supported that signing at the time after his run with Orlando. I, and others, always questioned it, especially after seeing the late season success that lineup had with Marion, an athletic, defensive-minded, versatile SF. It was so obviously going to be a bust signing.
    So, I pick the Kapono signing. If I remember, we blew our whole mid level on Kapono the season after we broke out with Bosh and won the division. Now, we can debate how good that team actually was, but the way it was built, that should've been a major signing to help make the team better. As BC always does, he overvalued offense. On a team with Parker, Calderon, Bargnani, Bosh (even if he didn't take lots of 3s), and Deflino, he felt he needed more shooters, and a one-dimensional one at that. I honestly can't remember who else was available or what, but that seriously could not have been the best option, considering how much playing time was given to Jamario Moon and Delfino. He basically had more money than he paid Garbo to find his replacement and chose Kapono, when he probably could have found at least a solid glue guy at that price...sigh
    BC had some success in Phoenix, and tried to bring the same mentality to Tdot.

    I'd like to think that the Toronto Raptors are still looking for an identity, but we obviously have one. Soft as feathers and pudding, throwing bricks when we need points, figuring how to choke in all the ways possible.

    BC bet on Bosh staying, and lost everything. Bosh was an asset that could easily have been traded for some good young talent or a 1st round pick. Furthermore, he let the TPE go. That's unconscionable; and just poor GMing.

    His worse mistake was Bargs. BC is a visionary, who has a vision....sticks to his vision....clings to his vision....dies with his vision...and brings down the fan base with him.

    Bargs was supposed to be that silky smooth, floor stretching, 7 footer who would complement Bosh, and make us a contender.

    After Chris left, Bargs was supposed to be the all-star, who would mesh with Derozan, Valanciunas, Lowry, stretch the floor and allow these others to get the room they need to thrive.

    It all sounds so good, theoretically. But reality is what it is.

    BC is a visionary, who can't get his head out of his arse to see the reality before his face. That's his problem.

    Brian's biggest mistake is being himself.

  18. #78
    Administrator Arsenalist's Avatar
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    Signing Jason Kapono instead of Mickael Pietrus. That simple signing could've been the difference in the summer of 2007. He totally misread why we lost the NJN series, and also failed to add a defensive big man to support Bosh.

  19. #79
    Raptors Republic Starter phez's Avatar
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    Bargnani.

    7 years of bargnani.

    7.

  20. #80
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    leaving his daddy's nut.

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