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Grange: What is Colangelo's biggest error in Toronto?

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  • #91
    I don't know how anyone can be critical of drafting Bargs. His comparison was Dirk, and you don't pass up an opportunity to get a Dirk. Turkoglu was OK, I didn't like it at first (I would've preferred Ariza, but he turned us down), but the potential was there. He also was quick to get rid of Turkoglu when things didn't pan out, and got Marion in the process. Marion was awesome for our team in that brief stretch and I was a bit sad we didn't re-sign him that year.

    Also, every contract he signs is always an overpay, that's probably his biggest mistake. I can't recall a Colangelo signing where I don't feel like the player is getting overpaid. Every contract he's given is only worth it if the player plays well beyond what they've shown. (ie, Amir, DD)

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    • #92
      Superchunk wrote: View Post
      In the end, clearly this was the biggest mistake. I wanted Bargs...I remember the extreme agitation from someone in our group at the draft party at not taking Aldridge. I have since conceeded a total lack of scouting ability on my part.

      Or Gay. Add Aldridge or Gay to Bosh and things might well be very different right now. That's the one move that drastically changed the fortunes of the franchise. JO, Smitch, Turk, none of those guys have nearly that kind of impact.
      I'm not saying I don't agree that this was a mistake. But DRAFTING Bargs was not a mistake. If you have the opportunity to draft a guy with his skill set, you take a risk and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

      The mistake he made was coddling him all these years and not realizing after his second year that this guy was not going to be an all star. Even then, that was not as dumb as trading for JO considering we already had 2 guys who were playing 4 and 5 who we wanted to build around.

      You know what? here are my top 5:

      1) hiring jay triano for bosh's last year and first with Hedo (passing on REAL coaches)
      2) trading TJ ford for JO (forcing Smitch to play Bargs at 3 just to make sure he started)
      3) signing bargs to a 5 year deal and coddling him
      4) choosing jose as the starting point guard for this team by trading TJ (not saying that we should have kept TJ long term but the point is BC made a statement that Jose was the starting PG of the future)
      5) signing Demar to that 5 year contract this year

      these 5 moves essentially created a core of jose demar and bargs for the past 4 years and the future...a bunch of mediocre role players as the core of this team
      Last edited by BallaBalla; Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:17 AM.

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      • #93
        You know why BC also sucks?

        He has no idea how to evaluate whether or not a player can create his own shot...Hedo, Kapono, Demar, Bargs and now Ross were all people that he said could "create their own shots"

        I hope he was watching Joe Johnson last night...because that's what it looks like

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        • #94
          Doing something that seemed like a good idea but turned out to be a bad idea is a mistake. It's odd how many people seem to think that something isn't a mistake if it seemed like a decent idea at the time.

          Getting drunk and having sex with a cow is still a mistake, whether or not it seemed like a fine idea at the time.

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          • #95
            I don't know if anyone actually posted this but this is the article to go with Grange's tweet question:

            http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/2...angelo_tenure/

            Talks about the good and the bad. Good article.
            Eh follow my TWITTER!

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            • #96
              Superchunk wrote: View Post
              Doing something that seemed like a good idea but turned out to be a bad idea is a mistake. It's odd how many people seem to think that something isn't a mistake if it seemed like a decent idea at the time.

              Getting drunk and having sex with a cow is still a mistake, whether or not it seemed like a fine idea at the time.
              Not sure if you're referring to drafting Bargnani, that's not a mistake you can fault him for. I think we're all looking for mistakes that are clearly due to Colangelo's ineptitude as a GM. Like the article Employee just linked, Colangelo's done a pretty good job drafting, but the way he manages everything else is pretty shitty. (Coaching hires, refusal to give up Bargnani, contracts etc..)

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              • #97
                Superchunk wrote: View Post
                Doing something that seemed like a good idea but turned out to be a bad idea is a mistake. It's odd how many people seem to think that something isn't a mistake if it seemed like a decent idea at the time.

                Getting drunk and having sex with a cow is still a mistake, whether or not it seemed like a fine idea at the time.
                So if Bargnani were to be traded to the Lakers and thrive as a 4th option, playing with one of the greatest players of all-time, one of the greatest distributing PGs of all-time and one of the greatest defensive anchor C of all-time, you would come on the RR forum and post scathing messages about how BC made a mistake trading Bargnani??? I highly doubt that... your black & white logic doesn't pass the sniff-test of reality.

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                • #98
                  Zewo wrote: View Post
                  Not sure if you're referring to drafting Bargnani, that's not a mistake you can fault him for. I think we're all looking for mistakes that are clearly due to Colangelo's ineptitude as a GM. Like the article Employee just linked, Colangelo's done a pretty good job drafting, but the way he manages everything else is pretty shitty. (Coaching hires, refusal to give up Bargnani, contracts etc..)
                  +1...of course all of those other decisions are 99% of the job...drafting is not nearly as important as people perceive it to be

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                  • #99
                    CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                    So if Bargnani were to be traded to the Lakers and thrive as a 4th option, playing with one of the greatest players of all-time, one of the greatest distributing PGs of all-time and one of the greatest defensive anchor C of all-time, you would come on the RR forum and post scathing messages about how BC made a mistake trading Bargnani??? I highly doubt that... your black & white logic doesn't pass the sniff-test of reality.
                    I'm sorry, can you please dumb it down for me a bit. How does that make any sense?

                    My black and white logic that a mistake is a mistake regardless of your intentions? That a mistake is defined by the result and outcome? If you make a decision expecting a certain outcome, but evaluated wrong and recieve a different outcome, you made a mistake. This isn't complicated. It isn't even logic, it's simply using a word properly.

                    Or are you saying that it wasn't a mistake to draft Bargs because it was circumstances since that time that have caused Andrea's failure to thrive?

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                    • Was drafting Darko over Melo a mistake?

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                      • Superchunk wrote: View Post
                        Was drafting Darko over Melo a mistake?
                        If you're arguing the definition of mistake, you're right. However in an earlier post you compared Colangelo's mistake with a drunk person having sex with cow with which I disagree. The difference between the two is that in one instance the mistake is made by a person of stable mind and and in the other, one of an unstable mind. When a professional makes a decision with knowledge, skill and expertise and it turns out a bad decision, it doesn't negate the fact that he had the best interest of the Organisation he represents in mind. In the case of the drunk though, need I explain.

                        If you're looking for Mr. Perfect to be GM, he doesn't exist.
                        Attitude Is A Choice.

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                        • He has two sets of rules.....ones that apply to most players and ones that apply to his main horses ie. Bosh and Bargnani....He is impatient frequently with most players BUT too patient with his main horses. This is because he has a hard time admitting he was wrong. ie...should have traded Bosh in off season prior to his last year here and failing to recognize that AB is not nearly as good as he thinks thus over valuating his trade potential.

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                          • Superchunk wrote: View Post
                            Was drafting Darko over Melo a mistake?
                            One has to wonder what kind of player Carmelo would have developed into if drafted by Detroit. Larry Brown wasn't really in the mood to develop young players and was tremendously hands on; not exactly a good fit for Anthony. He might have gotten the same minutes that Milicic got and we might have been asking if drafting Melo over Darko was a mistake. Player development matters and some teams and coaches really suck at it; in my opinion most players that are considered stars right now might not have been if they didn't receive the right opportunity and the right coaching. E.g. this is what the Spurs are very good at and what the Mavericks are very bad at.

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                            • Are you kidding me? Carmelo was an NBA ready player, there wasn't much to develop. He lead his school to the NCAA Championship. I have a feeling he would fit in-in Detroit just fine.


                              Clear #1 pick if it wasn't for James, in any other year.
                              Last edited by BasketballCrush; Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:36 PM.

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                              • For me the big mistake wasn't so much Bargnani, because I don't blame him for trying to surface potential that WAS there. No sir! For me, the problem was treating Calderon like an untouchable god of sorts. It was clear that Ford was the better point guard in the beginning for me, and I strongly think we should have given Ford the peace of mind that his spot was somewhat in stone rather than create competition with another player-rather than focus on the team. On top of this, Jose got a fat contract which is difficult to move because of the little bang-for-buck.

                                .......Oh and not giving Pops a decent contract...

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