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Thread: Grange: What is Colangelo's biggest error in Toronto?

  1. #81
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    The biggest mistake by far was hiring jay triano at a juncture where we had one year to be competitive...scott skiles, avery johnson, jeff van gundy, doug collins were just some of the coaches available at the time and we picked probably the worst coach ever...underqualified...had no clue what he was doing

    you couple that with Hedo and the fact that it was bosh's last year...that was a killer and honestly stupid

  2. #82
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    Colangelo may not have one failure that stands out but he makes many marginally poor moves that consistently degrade the talent on this team.
    Examples?

    Trades

    Charlie V. >>> TJ Ford (plus 1st round pick) >>> Jermaine O'neal >>> Shawn Marion >>>> Turkoglu >>>> Barbosa >>>>> 2nd rounder
    Net result = two first round picks for a second rounder

    First rounder >>> James Johnson >>>> second round pick

    Bosh >>>> nothing

    Signings

    Kleiza 5M/per yr
    Fields 6.6M/per yr
    Amir 5-7M/per yr

    He may not have dicked up any one thing that badly, but his body of work is awful when you think of it.

  3. #83
    Raptors Republic Rookie knowledgep's Avatar
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    not getting anything for Bosh. Set us back years.

  4. #84
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote BallaBalla wrote: View Post
    The biggest mistake by far was hiring jay triano at a juncture where we had one year to be competitive...scott skiles, avery johnson, jeff van gundy, doug collins were just some of the coaches available at the time and we picked probably the worst coach ever...underqualified...had no clue what he was doing

    you couple that with Hedo and the fact that it was bosh's last year...that was a killer and honestly stupid
    Doug Collins was available!? Brian Colangelo is officially the stupidest GM in the league. He's top 5 easy
    "You never heard of DeMar just google him, the defense don't know what to do wit him"

  5. #85
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    Accumulations of Errors is the biggest error:

    Building team around Bosh
    Not trading Bosh or getting anything substaintial for Bosh.
    Drafting Bargnani
    Hiring Triano
    trading draft pick (Roy Hibbert) for a broken down JO
    Signing Turkoglu
    Overpaying for scrubs
    Average draft picks - Other then Ed Davis and JV all other picks had better players selected.
    Believing he can create a Euro style team which then changed to a balanced 2 team unit which then changed to a "defence"
    oriented team.

    I am sure there are others I missed but it seems like Colangelo has been more busy running around and fixing his own mistakes then builiding a winning team.

  6. #86
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Oh, stop with the hindsight nonsense.... If you can't use hindsight you can never evaluate anyone. Plus, there were plenty of us who thought the Turkoglu signing was stupid. The Orlando GM and SVG were telling everyone the guy was lazy and didn't care and that Portland dodged a bullet. None of that was hindsight.
    except these are the same guys who traded gortat for turk a year later

  7. #87
    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    Biggest error = OVERVALUING ONE DIMENSIONAL SCRUBS
    “I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”

    -- Charles Barkley

  8. #88
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    Not trading Bosh when Bosh had not signed an extension was his biggest error . I remember the Raptors were comfortably placed at 4th(I think) in the East and it seemed right to me but an experienced GM like BC has no excuses for hanging on to him(Bosh). It's to foresee things and make good decisions that he get paid in millions.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  9. #89
    Raptors Republic All-Star yertu damkule's Avatar
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    this may have been mentioned by someone else, and if so, please forgive (i'm too lazy/depressed to read 5 pages of what i'm sure are entirely valid mistakes made by our high-collared prince).

    for me, there hasn't been any one single move that's tumped all others for 'worst,' but rather, it's been his overall mindset re. building a team, and simply failing to grasp the concept that it's something that takes time. perhaps he was molded too much by what happened in phx after signing nash (the immediate turnaround into contender from laughingstock). for the most part, he always seems to take the approach that he's just a player or two away from the raps being a contender, and that's what has contributed to a good deal of his moves that have backfired (kapono signing, JO trade, marion trade).

    but hey, at this point, you could pretty much hang every transaction he's made on the wall & fire darts. ball don't lie.
    TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

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    Quote Fonzi wrote: View Post
    There have been many mistakes, but perhaps the biggest was drafting Bargnani over Aldridge.
    In the end, clearly this was the biggest mistake. I wanted Bargs...I remember the extreme agitation from someone in our group at the draft party at not taking Aldridge. I have since conceeded a total lack of scouting ability on my part.

    Or Gay. Add Aldridge or Gay to Bosh and things might well be very different right now. That's the one move that drastically changed the fortunes of the franchise. JO, Smitch, Turk, none of those guys have nearly that kind of impact.

  11. #91
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    I don't know how anyone can be critical of drafting Bargs. His comparison was Dirk, and you don't pass up an opportunity to get a Dirk. Turkoglu was OK, I didn't like it at first (I would've preferred Ariza, but he turned us down), but the potential was there. He also was quick to get rid of Turkoglu when things didn't pan out, and got Marion in the process. Marion was awesome for our team in that brief stretch and I was a bit sad we didn't re-sign him that year.

    Also, every contract he signs is always an overpay, that's probably his biggest mistake. I can't recall a Colangelo signing where I don't feel like the player is getting overpaid. Every contract he's given is only worth it if the player plays well beyond what they've shown. (ie, Amir, DD)

  12. #92
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    Quote Superchunk wrote: View Post
    In the end, clearly this was the biggest mistake. I wanted Bargs...I remember the extreme agitation from someone in our group at the draft party at not taking Aldridge. I have since conceeded a total lack of scouting ability on my part.

    Or Gay. Add Aldridge or Gay to Bosh and things might well be very different right now. That's the one move that drastically changed the fortunes of the franchise. JO, Smitch, Turk, none of those guys have nearly that kind of impact.
    I'm not saying I don't agree that this was a mistake. But DRAFTING Bargs was not a mistake. If you have the opportunity to draft a guy with his skill set, you take a risk and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

    The mistake he made was coddling him all these years and not realizing after his second year that this guy was not going to be an all star. Even then, that was not as dumb as trading for JO considering we already had 2 guys who were playing 4 and 5 who we wanted to build around.

    You know what? here are my top 5:

    1) hiring jay triano for bosh's last year and first with Hedo (passing on REAL coaches)
    2) trading TJ ford for JO (forcing Smitch to play Bargs at 3 just to make sure he started)
    3) signing bargs to a 5 year deal and coddling him
    4) choosing jose as the starting point guard for this team by trading TJ (not saying that we should have kept TJ long term but the point is BC made a statement that Jose was the starting PG of the future)
    5) signing Demar to that 5 year contract this year

    these 5 moves essentially created a core of jose demar and bargs for the past 4 years and the future...a bunch of mediocre role players as the core of this team
    Last edited by BallaBalla; Thu Dec 13th, 2012 at 09:17 AM.

  13. #93
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    You know why BC also sucks?

    He has no idea how to evaluate whether or not a player can create his own shot...Hedo, Kapono, Demar, Bargs and now Ross were all people that he said could "create their own shots"

    I hope he was watching Joe Johnson last night...because that's what it looks like

  14. #94
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    Doing something that seemed like a good idea but turned out to be a bad idea is a mistake. It's odd how many people seem to think that something isn't a mistake if it seemed like a decent idea at the time.

    Getting drunk and having sex with a cow is still a mistake, whether or not it seemed like a fine idea at the time.

  15. #95
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    I don't know if anyone actually posted this but this is the article to go with Grange's tweet question:

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/2...angelo_tenure/

    Talks about the good and the bad. Good article.
    Eh follow my TWITTER!

  16. #96
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    Quote Superchunk wrote: View Post
    Doing something that seemed like a good idea but turned out to be a bad idea is a mistake. It's odd how many people seem to think that something isn't a mistake if it seemed like a decent idea at the time.

    Getting drunk and having sex with a cow is still a mistake, whether or not it seemed like a fine idea at the time.
    Not sure if you're referring to drafting Bargnani, that's not a mistake you can fault him for. I think we're all looking for mistakes that are clearly due to Colangelo's ineptitude as a GM. Like the article Employee just linked, Colangelo's done a pretty good job drafting, but the way he manages everything else is pretty shitty. (Coaching hires, refusal to give up Bargnani, contracts etc..)

  17. #97
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    Quote Superchunk wrote: View Post
    Doing something that seemed like a good idea but turned out to be a bad idea is a mistake. It's odd how many people seem to think that something isn't a mistake if it seemed like a decent idea at the time.

    Getting drunk and having sex with a cow is still a mistake, whether or not it seemed like a fine idea at the time.
    So if Bargnani were to be traded to the Lakers and thrive as a 4th option, playing with one of the greatest players of all-time, one of the greatest distributing PGs of all-time and one of the greatest defensive anchor C of all-time, you would come on the RR forum and post scathing messages about how BC made a mistake trading Bargnani??? I highly doubt that... your black & white logic doesn't pass the sniff-test of reality.

  18. #98
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    Quote Zewo wrote: View Post
    Not sure if you're referring to drafting Bargnani, that's not a mistake you can fault him for. I think we're all looking for mistakes that are clearly due to Colangelo's ineptitude as a GM. Like the article Employee just linked, Colangelo's done a pretty good job drafting, but the way he manages everything else is pretty shitty. (Coaching hires, refusal to give up Bargnani, contracts etc..)
    +1...of course all of those other decisions are 99% of the job...drafting is not nearly as important as people perceive it to be

  19. #99
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    So if Bargnani were to be traded to the Lakers and thrive as a 4th option, playing with one of the greatest players of all-time, one of the greatest distributing PGs of all-time and one of the greatest defensive anchor C of all-time, you would come on the RR forum and post scathing messages about how BC made a mistake trading Bargnani??? I highly doubt that... your black & white logic doesn't pass the sniff-test of reality.
    I'm sorry, can you please dumb it down for me a bit. How does that make any sense?

    My black and white logic that a mistake is a mistake regardless of your intentions? That a mistake is defined by the result and outcome? If you make a decision expecting a certain outcome, but evaluated wrong and recieve a different outcome, you made a mistake. This isn't complicated. It isn't even logic, it's simply using a word properly.

    Or are you saying that it wasn't a mistake to draft Bargs because it was circumstances since that time that have caused Andrea's failure to thrive?

  20. #100
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    Was drafting Darko over Melo a mistake?

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