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Thread: Does MLSE deserve any blame?

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Default Does MLSE deserve any blame?

    there are rumblings that BC wanted to Amnesty Calderon but OWNERSHIP were not willing to "write-off" 10 mill + take on additional salary of Ramon Sessions 5MILL/yr for 2/yrs (or CJ watson).

    MLSE would not give BC additional money for coach after SMITCH was fired so we got stuck with Jay Triano.

    MLSE was not willing to eat JO's 2009-2010 contract worth $23,016,000 so it cost a first round pick to grease him out of town... Depleting the franchise.

    February 13, 2009: Traded by the Toronto Raptors with Jamario Moon and a 2010 2nd round draft pick & conditional 1st round draft pick to the Miami Heat for Marcus Banks, Shawn Marion and cash.
    hmmmm sound familiar?
    to avoid paying the final year of Jalen Rose contract (15 Mill) they burned another first round draft pick just to side step paying that cash

    February 3, 2006: Toronto Raptors Trade Jalen Rose with 2006 1st round draft pick
    MLSE is near sighted. They need to be profitable every year. Fucking idiots don't have any vision and loose out on the real money of playoffs and better attendance. They destroy every team they touch. Their fucking bean counters run all their franchises.

    ROGERS BELL MLSE THE WORST OWNERSHIP GROUP IN THE WORLD
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    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    Raptors Republic All-Star KHD's Avatar
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    Rogers and Bell just took over. Prior to that, yes, the teachers fund was notorious for prioritizing profit to the point of handicapping teams and / or accepting the pathetic status quo (Leafs).

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Those were all under previous ownership - Ontario Teachers Pension Plan.

    I don't think you can grade current ownership since August, 2012 based on previous ownership prior to August, 2012.
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    Raptors Republic All-Star KHD's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Those were all under previous ownership - Ontario Teachers Pension Plan.

    I don't think you can grade current ownership since August, 2012 based on previous ownership prior to August, 2012.
    In fact, the new ownership group has already shown a willingness to spend, with the Jays (i'm no baseball expert, but thats what the news stories say).

    I think that with the Teachers fund they wanted to be as low risk as possible, whereas with Bell and Rogers, they know that if they build a winner their TV revenue will increase and more than cover the cost. This is more risky though, as you have to spend on players up front.

    Basically, despite the fact that i despise Bell for having me on the hook for practically every connection to the world outside my home, I think they're more likely to pay up for good teams.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    there are rumblings that BC wanted to Amnesty Calderon but OWNERSHIP were not willing to "write-off" 10 mill + take on additional salary of Ramon Sessions 5MILL/yr for 2/yrs (or CJ watson).

    MLSE would not give BC additional money for coach after SMITCH was fired so we got stuck with Jay Triano.

    MLSE was not willing to eat JO's 2009-2010 contract worth $23,016,000 so it cost a first round pick to grease him out of town... Depleting the franchise.



    hmmmm sound familiar?
    to avoid paying the final year of Jalen Rose contract (15 Mill) they burned another first round draft pick just to side step paying that cash



    MLSE is near sighted. They need to be profitable every year. Fucking idiots don't have any vision and loose out on the real money of playoffs and better attendance. They destroy every team they touch. Their fucking bean counters run all their franchises.

    ROGERS BELL MLSE THE WORST OWNERSHIP GROUP IN THE WORLD
    bluejays
    Raptors
    Leafs
    TFC
    Like others have already stated, those moves came under the previous regime and can't be blamed on MLSE.
    And to be honest, I'm not sure how true some of those statements are anyway.

    There may have been "rumblings" about ownership not wanting to eat Calderon's deal but that doesn't necessarily make it the reality. And besides, not amnestying him has turned out to be a sound decision given Lowry's injury problems this season. We've needed Calderon. Plugging Sessions/Watson into his role this year would not have changed anything, and the kicker is that our cap situation would be even worse if either of those signings were allowed to happen.

    I don't remember the JO deal to Miami being a teacher's union issue with paying the salary, and even if there were more 'rumblings', they're purely speculation. The Raptors and Colangelo considered themselves "contenders" in the East during that period, as laughable as that may be in hindsight, and when things went so poorly with O'Neal I think BC felt inclined to shake things up again in an attempt to salvage the season.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    there are rumblings that BC wanted to Amnesty Calderon but OWNERSHIP were not willing to "write-off" 10 mill + take on additional salary of Ramon Sessions 5MILL/yr for 2/yrs (or CJ watson).

    MLSE would not give BC additional money for coach after SMITCH was fired so we got stuck with Jay Triano.

    MLSE was not willing to eat JO's 2009-2010 contract worth $23,016,000 so it cost a first round pick to grease him out of town... Depleting the franchise.



    hmmmm sound familiar?
    to avoid paying the final year of Jalen Rose contract (15 Mill) they burned another first round draft pick just to side step paying that cash



    MLSE is near sighted. They need to be profitable every year. Fucking idiots don't have any vision and loose out on the real money of playoffs and better attendance. They destroy every team they touch. Their fucking bean counters run all their franchises.

    ROGERS BELL MLSE THE WORST OWNERSHIP GROUP IN THE WORLD
    bluejays
    Raptors
    Leafs
    TFC
    As others have pointed out, those were previous owners.

    Thats said, is there any evidence that MLSE/OTPP didn't want those things? From all accounts BC had alot of autonomy in the decision making process, something previous GMs didn't have (atleast to the same extent).

    Now I imagine BC had a budget he had to work in, so they may have prevented him from going above that budget which then would have given BC one less route to take to get to the destination he wanted.

    PS Amnestying an expiring contract would have been a waste anyways. Add that Jose is at they very least a useful player that offered insurance incase of injury, seems like a foolish move on many levels. Really handy having it now for Bargnani if needed anyways.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Wanted to add, that doesn't absolve MLSE from blame. They after all are the owners and MLSE, as an entity, hired and reupped Colangelo.

    Here's hoping new ownership wants to take the team in a different direction

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    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Why would you amnesty Calderon? He has a year left and is a significantly better player than, say, Bargnani. The guy is one of the top offensive pg's in the league and BC wanted to amnesty him during his contract year when all we have in an unproven, oft injured Lowry and a bunch of D leaguers? I'm really starting to get aboard the firee BC train, that's just stupid. Also, Ramon Sessions is not good.
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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    id say yes but its not from lack of spending as some say...its having baboons running the teams that there responsible for & for letting these baboons have too much slack on there ropes...we got BC who is constantly tinkering with NO real success..then we got Burkie who talks a big game but cant do anything to give his team hope!

    MLSE has forked out big time dollars to shit players many times because of these 2 Blabbering fools..soo u cant say we dont spend or havent spent because we have...

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    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    MLSE was not willing to eat JO's 2009-2010 contract worth $23,016,000 so it cost a first round pick to grease him out of town... Depleting the franchise.
    I understand this decision, a pick in that range usually gets sold for 5-6 mil, so swollowing 23 million is way too much.



    MLSE has spent well on this team. Not NY well, but better than most. Can't really fault them for wanting a GM to work within their budget, and their budget is still better than most clubs.


    (Teachers were running it to make a return, new magnment can profit more by the teams success)
    Last edited by BasketballCrush; Fri Dec 14th, 2012 at 12:49 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Starter charlz's Avatar
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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    ...whereas with Bell and Rogers, they know that if they build a winner their TV revenue will increase and more than cover the cost. This is more risky though, as you have to spend on players up front.

    Basically, despite the fact that i despise Bell for having me on the hook for practically every connection to the world outside my home, I think they're more likely to pay up for good teams....
    the conventional wisdom would say so more games deep playoff runs = huge revenue...when will we see it?
    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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    If Bryan Colangelo is in a position where he could give an honest answer and was asked which of the two teams he's worked for has been financially supportive, I have not doubt in my mind that his answer would be Raptors by miles. I disagree with a couple of the points mentioned at the start of this thread but MLSE is no different from any good Organisation. Once in a while interference from ownership is normal. As capable a GM as BC is, the present state of affairs is completely his doing and responsibility.
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    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    I understand this decision, a pick in that range usually gets sold for 5-6 mil, so swollowing 23 million is way too much.



    MLSE has spent well on this team. Not NY well, but better than most. Can't really fault them for wanting a GM to work within their budget, and their budget is still better than most clubs.


    (Teachers were running it to make a return, new magnment can profit more by the teams success)
    Ah, 2009-2010 makes more sense. I thought they meant he did that this year.
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    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    MLSE management is not the problem at all. I cant think of one situation where we lost out on a good player (whether signing our own guy or FA) due to unwillingness to spend. They signed off on a BRUTAL LF contract for the right to OVERPAY steve nash. Again, help me with how this is the owners fault?

    WE SPEND LOTS OF MONEY. We just do it in a stupid way! Blame BC, blame DC (hes a clueless coach), blame the players .. but you cant put this on MLSE (whether under teachers or rogers/bell)

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    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
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    Quote charlz wrote: View Post
    there are rumblings that BC wanted to Amnesty Calderon but OWNERSHIP were not willing to "write-off" 10 mill + take on additional salary of Ramon Sessions 5MILL/yr for 2/yrs (or CJ watson).

    MLSE would not give BC additional money for coach after SMITCH was fired so we got stuck with Jay Triano.

    MLSE was not willing to eat JO's 2009-2010 contract worth $23,016,000 so it cost a first round pick to grease him out of town... Depleting the franchise.



    hmmmm sound familiar?
    to avoid paying the final year of Jalen Rose contract (15 Mill) they burned another first round draft pick just to side step paying that cash



    MLSE is near sighted. They need to be profitable every year. Fucking idiots don't have any vision and loose out on the real money of playoffs and better attendance. They destroy every team they touch. Their fucking bean counters run all their franchises.

    ROGERS BELL MLSE THE WORST OWNERSHIP GROUP IN THE WORLD
    bluejays
    Raptors
    Leafs
    TFC
    I also remember reading that it was MLSE that REALLYYYYY wanted us to get Nash (obv. to sell tickets).
    And BC tried to make it happen now we are stuck with Fields.

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    Can we blame them for not firing BC yet?

    They are not going to increase TV ratings at the rate this team is performing.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Those were all under previous ownership - Ontario Teachers Pension Plan.

    I don't think you can grade current ownership since August, 2012 based on previous ownership prior to August, 2012.
    Do you really think they have turned over a new leaf with new ownership in regards to eating contracts? I am highly skeptical until I see evidence to the contrary.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    I used to be really hard on Larry Tanenbaum. Criticized him for being too close to the players and management. His philanthropic instincts sometimes get in the way of the pro sporting mentality of sink or swim. Felt a lot of the problems with coaching and management not being held accountable , were due to Triano being one of our own and Bryan being part of his social circle. The graduation by VC another example of him being too accommodating.

    Anyway I was very very hard on him in the forums, I stood out in my level of criticism.


    (I don't bother going to games these days unless I have courtside seats. I don't go as often, but when I do it is always very memorable.)


    So I end up getting a pair of courtside B's behind Tanenbaum(who is sitting front row centre). When he turned around, he looked at me and our eyes met and he looked up and down and gave me this feeling as if he knew who I was. It made me feel really uneasy because there were other people there that he casually glanced at, but when he looked at me, he really stood there and paused as if he was thinking of the time and place we met, almost as if he was about to interrupt me and talk to me. It made me stop and think, did I give a guilt body language indicators, or did this son of a bitch pay someone to check me out. LOL. (I doubt he did, but at the same time if I had the money he has and some joe shmoe was soiling my name on the internet, I would want to see who the hell it is. Is it someone close to me, or is it a nobody. If it did happen, the PI would of told him BasketballCrush is a nobody. He would of seen my picture and maybe even felt sorry for me, lol, which is why he would remember the face.)


    ...but away from my self serving, ego centered story, I wish that Tennanbaum was a bit more hands off with the management and players so that I could not cast dispersions on his proximity.

    (after that incident, I had less vitriol in my blood for him, made me realize he is a person like anyone else, fallible and just trying his best)
    Last edited by BasketballCrush; Fri Dec 14th, 2012 at 03:49 PM.

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    Quote JasonS wrote: View Post
    Can we blame them for not firing BC yet?

    They are not going to increase TV ratings at the rate this team is performing.
    Maybe they do not want to pay for new GM until BC's contract expires?

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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    I used to be really hard on Larry Tanenbaum. Criticized him for being too close to the players and mangment. His philentrhopic instincts sometimes get in the way of the pro sporting mentality of sink or swim. Felt a lot of the problems with coaching and mangment not being held accountable , were due to Triano being one of our own and Bryan being part of his social circle. The graduation by VC another example of him being too accomodating.

    Anyway I was very very hard on him in the forums, I stood out in my level of criticism.


    (I don't bother going to games these days unless I have courtside seats. I don't go as often, but when I do it is always very memorable.)


    So I end up getting a pair of row ciurt B's behind Tennanbaum (who is sitting front row centre). When he turned around, he looked at me and our eyes met and he looked up and down and gave me this feeling as if he knew who I was. It made me feel really uneasy because there were other people there that he casually glanced at, but when he looked at me, he really stood there and paused as if he was thinking of the time and place we met, almost as if he was about to interupt me and talk to me. It made me stop and think, did I give a guilt body language indicators, or did this son of a bitch pay someone to check me out. LOL. (I doubt he did, but at the same time if I had the money he has and some joe shmoe was soiling my name on the internet, I would want to see who the hell it is. Is it someone close to me, or is it a nobody. If it did happen, the PI would of told him BasketballCrush is a nobody. He would of seen my picture and maybe even felt sorry for me, lol, which is why he would remember the face.)


    ...but away from my self serving, ego centered story, I wish that Tennanbaum was a bit more hands off with the mangment and players so that I could not cast dispersions on his proximity.

    (after that incident, I had less vitrol in my blood for him, made me realize he is a person like anyone else, falible and just trying his best)

    LT could care less what forum says about him. He is more concerned with controlling the Raptors reporters and the image they project. I genuinely believe he wants to win but he does not know how to get it down. He is usually at many games and is friendly to most fans which is more than I can say for other board members. He knows which big wigs sit where and that may be what you observed...as he is very social at greeting celebreties and big wigs.

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