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Thread: Grange: Raptors future

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default Grange: Raptors future

    A really good read, worth the click.... although it doesn't really give any more insight beyond what we've been discussing around here:

    There are roughly three ways to assemble a championship caliber team in the NBA, where one or two players can so easily dictate the course of a franchise. The first -- be a free agent destination for superstars -- isn't really open to the Raptors and won't be at least until they establish themselves as a place where championships are won.

    The second is kind of what the Raptors have been attempting to do: add some decent, if not transcendent talent in the draft (Jonas Valancuinas, Ed Davis, DeMar DeRozan); layer in some quality veterans (Kyle Lowry) and hope that over time and with the right added pieces a solid playoff team emerges. Call it the Indiana Pacers or Milwaukee Bucks approach. It's not easy and requires its share of luck too.

    The last is a complete high-wire act. It might get you across that canyon, but it might send a franchise tumbling. The third option is the 'draft basketball Jesus' approach.

    When it works, it works spectacularly well -- see Cleveland with LeBron or Chicago with Derrick Rose or Oklahoma City with Kevin Durant and on and on.

    The Raptors have never really embraced that route, in part because it involves giving up on an entire season and sometimes more, and Colangelo, whatever his flaws may be, can't stand the prospect of just such a thing.

    But circumstances change and opportunities present themselves accordingly.

    There is a kid named Andrew Wiggins who will be available to be drafted in June of 2014. There are people who make a living evaluating basketball talent who feel that the 6-foot-7 live wire is as gifted an NBA prospect as has emerged in the past decade. A franchise-changing player, in other words: A saviour.

    On a rational level, it's crazy talk. The kid is a kid. Being talented is a long way from being able to lift a franchise. They call it the draft lottery for a reason -- the balls don't always bounce the way they should.

    But.


    http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/2...aptors_future/


    I go option 3 and it isn't about Wiggins. Other 2 routes have been spectacular failures.

    Blow it up!

    Embrace what has not been done before. Get as many picks over the next 3 years as possible. Then go option 1 in 2015.

    Just my opinion.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    In their pursuit not to waste a year tanking, they have wasted 4 seasons.....

    Thing is about the other two approaches:

    - The free agent route is hard to do without tanking cause you need to clear a tonne of cap room (e.g. Miami the two years before Lebron and Bosh). PLus, even then, none of that is possible without them already having Wade, who they got by TANKING. The Celts were exactly, exactly the same.

    - Memphis is the best current example of the second approach but they were terrible for years and years and a bunch of the "decent/good but not great" players they have were lottery picks (Gay, Conley).

    Thing is, all sports teams go through cycles. I am old enough to remember when everyone wanted out of Dallas and no black player would sign as a free agent in Boston. Heck, the only team in the NBA that has been consistently excellent in the last 30 years that I can name offhand has been the Lakers.

    Colangelo's approach of doing everything half-assed doesn't work. You are either winning or losing with the compensation of high draft and developing young players. You can't do both.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    In their pursuit not to waste a year tanking, they have wasted 4 seasons.....

    Thing is about the other two approaches:

    - The free agent route is hard to do without tanking cause you need to clear a tonne of cap room (e.g. Miami the two years before Lebron and Bosh). PLus, even then, none of that is possible without them already having Wade, who they got by TANKING. The Celts were exactly, exactly the same.

    - Memphis is the best current example of the second approach but they were terrible for years and years and a bunch of the "decent/good but not great" players they have were lottery picks (Gay, Conley).

    Thing is, all sports teams go through cycles. I am old enough to remember when everyone wanted out of Dallas and no black player would sign as a free agent in Boston. Heck, the only team in the NBA that has been consistently excellent in the last 30 years that I can name offhand has been the Lakers.

    Colangelo's approach of doing everything half-assed doesn't work. You are either winning or losing with the compensation of high draft and developing young players. You can't do both.
    I'd add Memphis tanked when they traded Pau aswell.

    NBA reality is unless you are LA/Dallas/NY and can and will pay your way through your inefficiencies, you have to be bad in order to get good.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    I'd add Memphis tanked when they traded Pau aswell.

    NBA reality is unless you are LA/Dallas/NY and can and will pay your way through your inefficiencies, you have to be bad in order to get good.
    True story: The Raptors have been in the playoffs as much as the Knicks since 2000-2001. In fact, the Raptors actually have one more playoff series win than the Knicks in that timeframe.....

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    True story: The Raptors have been in the playoffs as much as the Knicks since 2000-2001. In fact, the Raptors actually have one more playoff series win than the Knicks in that timeframe.....
    Oh no doubt NY has done a poor job, and they finally figured out what they should have when they fired Thomas, keep Grunwald in charge. I'm just saying that NY has the capacity to do what LA has, and Dallas has been.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Fanchie's Avatar
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    If we're in the lottery, I won't tolerate anything else than getting the first pick. If Cleveland and Chicago can get their homeboy just like that, give us ours.

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    Raptors Republic Starter albertan_10's Avatar
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    Quote Fanchie wrote: View Post
    If we're in the lottery, I won't tolerate anything else than getting the first pick. If Cleveland and Chicago can get their homeboy just like that, give us ours.
    and cleveland got Irving after getting screwed by Lebron. The draft is rigged

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    We know why it's called the lottery right? This is lunacy to suggest that this franchise can ride this funk for two more years - in the hopes of MAYBE landing Wiggins. Crazy!
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    I'm with Matt. Blow up the team and target Wiggins in 2014.

    Imagine the hype this team will get, the national media coverage and attention, if they get the best prospect of the decade, coupled with him being Canadian. Then start building around him.

    Hopefully if another team drafts Wiggins, he pulls a Steve Francis and sits and pouts until they give in to his demands that he be traded to Toronto. He's that good to pull off such a demand, right???

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    I'm with Matt. Blow up the team and target Wiggins in 2014.

    Imagine the hype this team will get, the national media coverage and attention, if they get the best prospect of the decade, coupled with him being Canadian. Then start building around him.

    Hopefully if another team drafts Wiggins, he pulls a Steve Francis and sits and pouts until they give in to his demands that he be traded to Toronto. He's that good to pull off such a demand, right???
    The great thing about Wiggins, should be ever lace up for Toronto, is as of right now they wouldn't have to start building around him - they would already be built. SG is set, PF could be set, C is set, 6th man could be set (DD/TR). I think DD, TR, and ED are solid pro's. JV could be an all-star calibre centre in time (if Hibbert is an all-star, JV can def be one in my opinion). But Wiggins appears to be elite talent.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  11. #11
    Raptors Republic Starter AJ360's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    The great thing about Wiggins, should be ever lace up for Toronto, is as of right now they wouldn't have to start building around him - they would already be built. SG is set, PF could be set, C is set, 6th man could be set (DD/TR). I think DD, TR, and ED are solid pro's. JV could be an all-star calibre centre in time (if Hibbert is an all-star, JV can def be one in my opinion). But Wiggins appears to be elite talent.
    If you want to target Wiggins, you need to lose A LOT of games and if PF, SG and C are 'set' how can you expect to lose enough games to get the number 1 pick?

  12. #12
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote AJ360 wrote: View Post
    If you want to target Wiggins, you need to lose A LOT of games and if PF, SG and C are 'set' how can you expect to lose enough games to get the number 1 pick?
    They are set long term.

    Do you really think next season ED, JV, DD, and TR are going to lead the Raptors to a competitive season? That group leading the Raptors should be good for a bottom 5 finish assuming the Raptors don't have LBJ and Durant on the roster as well.

    As I said, DD-ED-TR are going to be solid pros. JV may be an All-Star but it won't be next year at 21.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  13. #13
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Trade Andrea for a decent expensive player and a first round pick, Andrea will destroy the team from the inside, have 2 top 5 picks next year for Wiggins and co.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Trade Andrea for a decent expensive player and a first round pick, Andrea will destroy the team from the inside, have 2 top 5 picks next year for Wiggins and co.
    Lmao! master plan

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    I go option 2. Raptors have some good young pieces(JV, DeRozan, Ross and Davis). All four are 23 years old and under.

    JV i think is a future all-star. Will be the face of this team for many years. DeRozan on the other hand i think is just going to get better and better. He's just entering his prime and i think his best years are ahead of him. T-Ross ceiling to me is a better shooter, much better defender version of Jason Richardson. And Ed Davis to me is a guy that will give you 100% effort on D every game and i think he's capable of averaging 14/10 a night if he gets Bargnani like minutes.

    I'm not saying those four will lead the Raps to promise land. Obviously the GM needs to surround them with some veteran leadership and some talented players. Areas that this current team is lacking in my opinion. But i like what i see from those four.

    Problem with option 3 by the way is. There's no guarantee that you're going to get the 1st overall pick even even if you finished with the worst record in the league. And i don't think i can stand another losing season.
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    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    All I'm saying is David Stern goes where the money is. Imagine the hype Wiggins will bring if he ends up in Toronto.
    “I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”

    -- Charles Barkley

  17. #17
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    There are roughly three ways to assemble a championship caliber team in the NBA, where one or two players can so easily dictate the course of a franchise. The first -- be a free agent destination for superstars -- isn't really open to the Raptors and won't be at least until they establish themselves as a place where championships are won.

    The second is kind of what the Raptors have been attempting to do: add some decent, if not transcendent talent in the draft (Jonas Valancuinas, Ed Davis, DeMar DeRozan); layer in some quality veterans (Kyle Lowry) and hope that over time and with the right added pieces a solid playoff team emerges. Call it the Indiana Pacers or Milwaukee Bucks approach. It's not easy and requires its share of luck too.

    The last is a complete high-wire act. It might get you across that canyon, but it might send a franchise tumbling. The third option is the 'draft basketball Jesus' approach.
    Can't believe that missed another way to assemble a championship team, which is to stockpile good young talent & draft picks, while clearing cap space and then use those assets to trade for stars. The Celtics did that to acquire Garnett and Allen. Houston just did that recently to acquire Harden. Philly used that strategy + AI to facilitate the Bynum / Howard trade. The Blue Jays are a good example of that strategy being used in MLB. Anthopolous has been stockpiling young talent for years, and is now cashing in potential for established stars, in a big way.

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