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Thread: Why do we want to trade Jose again?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Starter OzRapFan's Avatar
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    Ffs haven't we been on this merry go round before? Trade him while his value is high. I love Jose but not on this team anymore

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Allen Iverson: 42% career FG shooter

    At Lowries age, he was averaging in 60 games 39.8% FG 29.1% 3PTFG% 4.5 rbg 5.5 assists.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Starter omgsomuchpotential's Avatar
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    Why do we want to trade Jose? Because we're not contending - we're rebuilding. And Jose has value (even more after his triple-double performance) as an asset. We need to generate as much young talent as we can in this rebuild period if we want to someday reach the playoffs and more.

  4. #24
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    Quote knickz wrote: View Post
    can tell you don't know shit about ball, clown
    i hope your not talkin about tebow bein good?
    Im not tryin to say lowry is our saving grace but i know i would take him anyday over calderon, and he has way more potential then jarrett jack..

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Rookie Jkwasia's Avatar
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    Stop over-hyping marginal talent.....Dribbles is a back up ....if im bc I trade him now when his value is an all time high.....T.H.F need to realize all his body of work not the once in awhile good game ....look at Kleiza 0.o fanboys like Knickz and KHD are the reason why this team keeps extending mediocre talent

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Starter knickz's Avatar
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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    Go troll somewhere else.
    Quote JB5 wrote: View Post
    i hope your not talkin about tebow bein good?
    Im not tryin to say lowry is our saving grace but i know i would take him anyday over calderon, and he has way more potential then jarrett jack..
    ok. thats your opinion, i can respect that
    "the raptors were my fav team growing up"-kevin durant

  7. #27
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    Jose is a keeper. No better PG to get team mates involved and better. A PRO all the way. Yes he will get less $$ on the next contract but he will keep the bigs going to the hoop not standing around and chucking 3's at the 1st touch

  8. #28
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    in the end were all just some pissed off raptors fans that just wanna win

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Starter c_bcm's Avatar
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    Quote JB5 wrote: View Post
    this is crazy, he goes off and everyone is loving him.. Jose is a backup point gaurd unless its on a team like miami where they have 2 superstars.. #josesucks
    False. The people who like him tend to post supporting comments after he has a strong game. This is because sports fans live in the moment and are generally unable to see the bigger picture. It is much easier to rag on a guy when he is having a rough stretch. This jekyl and hyde act Is actually one of the most entertaining things about this website IMO.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Jkwasia wrote: View Post
    Stop over-hyping marginal talent.....Dribbles is a back up ....if im bc I trade him now when his value is an all time high.....T.H.F need to realize all his body of work not the once in awhile good game ....look at Kleiza 0.o fanboys like Knickz and KHD are the reason why this team keeps extending mediocre talent
    Calderon is clearly more than a 'back up'. The guy proves his mettle time and again. Against Ford, Jack and now Lowry. He shows it every time the trade talks come up.

    In about 20 - 25 games Jose will qualify for some all-time rankings (15 000 min played) where he'll rank 7th in all time assist%. The names ahead of him - John Stockton, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Steve Nash, Magic Johnson, Brevin Knight. The names behind him - Mark Jackson, Jason Kidd, Kevin Johnson, Tim Hardaway, Kevin Porter, Isaih Thomas. Of those names listed none have a better assist:to ratio than Jose, with Chris Paul being the closest behind him.


    You can call Jose 'dribbles' all you like, but the guy is one of the best play makers in the history of the game. That doesn't mean he doesn't have his weaknesses but this guy is a legit NBA starter thats gone undervalued by fans and this organization for the last 4 years.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    He certainly plays better when there is another point guard in the picture.

  12. #32

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    Jose Calderon Averages as Starter: 13.2 Points, 11.5 Assists, 4.1 Rebs ,45% FG%
    Kyle Lowry Averages as Starter: 16.0 points, 5.7 assists, 5.5 Rebounds, 41% FG%

    Most telling of all however, is Jose's 4-6 record, compared to Kyle Lowry's miserable 2-13 record as starting pg. Is Lowry more talented? Quite possibly. However does Jose work better for this team? No question.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Jose is not the answer for Toronto. He has more wins than Lowry as a starter, possibly better stats, but this team needs to move on from Jose.

    Here are my reasons:
    - Jose is 31 years old and we are rebuilding.
    - He is injury prone (I admit he's been healthy the last couple of seasons) and will play every international event (world cup + olympics)
    - He will probably get offers from Europe once his contract ends, which potentially means overpaying to keep him. $7M per season would be too much to keep him.
    - He is not a winner. How do you explain last year when he was a starter? Bryan, Andrea and Jose are all constants from the past 7 years. They all need to go.
    - If he is asked to play backup, then he will probably get minutes in the 4th. I hate the 2PG line up, especially late in the game.
    - His assist to turnover is low, but he plays it safe. Safe ball does not equate to winning ball, not in the NBA.
    - For a guy with a quality FG% he seems afraid to shoot the ball.

    I am not sure if Lowry is the answer, but Jose is definitely not the answer going forward for our team. Not in my opinion at least.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote JB5 wrote: View Post
    this is crazy, he goes off and everyone is loving him.. Jose is a backup point gaurd unless its on a team like miami where they have 2 superstars.. #josesucks
    Very much agree.

    What success has Toronto had with Jose as the starter? Anyone?

    Jose is playing great but the way he has been treated by organization and his quotes make him as good as gone this summer.

    Oh yeah, his age and continued play in international competition combined with injury history is the white elephant currently in the room.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

  15. #35
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    Interesting to note that there have been 8 triple doubles in Raptor history and Calderon is the only player with 2. Alvin Williams was the last Raptor to get one before Jose's pair this season.

    http://thenbehteam.blogspot.ca/2011/...potential.html

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote omgsomuchpotential wrote: View Post
    Why do we want to trade Jose? Because we're not contending - we're rebuilding. And Jose has value (even more after his triple-double performance) as an asset. We need to generate as much young talent as we can in this rebuild period if we want to someday reach the playoffs and more.
    Somebody buy this gentleman a scotch.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    Oh for sure, I'm not saying Lowry isn't capable of improvement, but so far Jose has shown a much better ability to run a team. Lowry plays too much hero-ball. Hopefully he can get healthy and then get better acquainted with his teammates. He's got to trust them more.
    That is the key.

    If Lowry can't conform to what the team is showing since he and Bargnani have been out, then I am all for sending Lowry on his way. The hero ball needs to be a carefully selected option. Hero ball has such a thin line between selfish and stallion. It has been a long time since the Raptors have not only had someone able to get his own shot but also so willing to step up.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote stretch wrote: View Post
    Interesting to note that there have been 8 triple doubles in Raptor history and Calderon is the only player with 2. Alvin Williams was the last Raptor to get one before Jose's pair this season.

    http://thenbehteam.blogspot.ca/2011/...potential.html
    Ben Uzoh had a triple double for us last year...What else did they miss on there??

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Very much agree.

    What success has Toronto had with Jose as the starter? Anyone?

    Jose is playing great but the way he has been treated by organization and his quotes make him as good as gone this summer.

    Oh yeah, his age and continued play in international competition combined with injury history is the white elephant currently in the room.
    You mention all the time the lack of succes the Raptors had with Calderon. That's too easy for me. There are many good players that didn't have succes with their team when the talent around them (and/or the coaching) just isn't good enough. It's only the great players that can lift teams to another level. Aldridge can't lead the Blazers to a good record alone (and he has arguably more talent around him than in Toronto), Kevin Love couldn't win without Adelman and Rubio (and they have yet to prove that they can now) to mention just a few players a lot of people would love to have in Toronto. Correlation doesn't equal causation.

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Either way, it does not look like a decision that needs to be made now. Likely closer to the deadline. My thoughts on it:
    -Right now, especially with Lowry out, Jose is great for the team, because at the very least, with our season likely in the gutter, he is much better at facilitating for our young players like Ed, Jonas and Ross.
    -His value should stay high, as it should be. I'm sure teams have been calling for years about Jose, despite his flaws. But with his contract, I'm sure teams were also not offering anything worthwhile. Suddenly though, his contract could have a reverse effect this season. With him being a quality player, and a nice big expiring contract, teams will be calling more than ever, and hopefully this can create at least some kind of bidding war.
    -I'm not sold on Lowry at this point for the future of the position, so the move should hopefully bring some young PG back, even a backup who might be a project, or net us at least a 1st rd pick in one of the next two drafts. For instance, even though I can't think of any way to make it work, if OKC called us and offered Maynor, a 1st rd pick (both my criteria met!) and somehow managed to make the money work or get a 3rd team involved, I'd be all for that.
    -Finally, I have no problem with Jose coming back as a free agent. Not sure how that could happen. If they still have an empty spot, and if they're not sold on Lowry either, I could see them really pushing Jose to come back, thinking they might trade Lowry next season, and they need a backup who can step up and start.

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