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Thread: Do we want to finish bottom 3?

  1. #1
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    Default Do we want to finish bottom 3?

    Considering that this year is supposed to be a weaker draft, and the fact that keeping our pick this year means we would give up our next years pick, do we really want to finish bottom 3?

    How do you see it working out better for the raptors longterm?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    if we drop to fourth pick in the draft the upside is that the deal is over and we can proceed as normal.

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    i would say play out the season and im sure we would be around 30 to 35 wins at the end of the season. not too bad and not too good. now, you ll have plenty of mediocre talent to play with... keep JV ED and TR and trade as many pieces as possible for 2014 draft picks.. that includes KL, DD, AB(if hes not traded by then). atleast get 1 lottery pick and some first rounders in return. Tank the season the 2014 season.. like real talk TANK!!! just BOMB the season bobcats style. now you are guaranteed for Wiggins or Jabari. and the possibilities of winning the lottery with the lottery picks we have in hand will be higher. say we have 7th worst teams pick and our own pick. thats like about 25% + 8% = 33%; in other words 1 in 3 chances.

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    We should just play for the win. I'm not against tanking but we don't need more potential players. We are young enough now. And with the draft, nothing is certain. Even with the worst record, you can drop down to fourth. And even if we get the #1 pick, we can still end up with a Greg Oden, Kwame Brown and our very own Enigmatic Primo Pasta. What's important is that the team should figure out how to play as a team, be better on D, trade Bargnani, and make smart offseason moves.

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    Quote flamingtimbits wrote: View Post
    We should just play for the win. I'm not against tanking but we don't need more potential players. We are young enough now. And with the draft, nothing is certain. Even with the worst record, you can drop down to fourth. And even if we get the #1 pick, we can still end up with a Greg Oden, Kwame Brown and our very own Enigmatic Primo Pasta. What's important is that the team should figure out how to play as a team, be better on D, trade Bargnani, and make smart offseason moves.
    clearly you hvaent seen Wiggins,
    let me help you out- imagine Kevin Durant's game with Vince like body and hops.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Mack North's Avatar
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    Quote ball4life wrote: View Post
    clearly you hvaent seen Wiggins,
    let me help you out- imagine Kevin Durant's game with Vince like body and hops.
    Wiggins is '014, who gives a shit about this year unless we get the top pick.

    No I don't wanna watch the rest of the season where we lose. If it happens, it happens. Nobody should want that, not this year.
    Keep Calm & Chive On

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Quote ball4life wrote: View Post
    clearly you hvaent seen Wiggins,
    let me help you out- imagine Kevin Durant's game with Vince like body and hops.
    Who cares about Wiggins? if this was year 2014 then yeah i probably would tank. But that's 2 years from now. Raps should play for the win. I'm tired of losing.
    Follow me on Twitter - @11_RRyan

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    Raptors Republic Starter mike, prague's Avatar
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    DD for next years projected worst teams' 1st round pick?

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Go for wins, this team still has a chance at the playoffs (statistically unlikely), but it's still early in the season.

    This year's draft is very, very weak. Shabazz Muhammad is the only player I'd consider in that draft, but apparently he's another Harrison Barnes type college player. So, I don't know.

    Play for wins.

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    Quote ball4life wrote: View Post
    clearly you hvaent seen Wiggins,
    let me help you out- imagine Kevin Durant's game with Vince like body and hops.
    I've seen highlights of his games but he hasn't even picked a college yet! What does making the playoffs have anything to do with him? Even if Wiggins bribes Stern, suddenly declare for the draft, and we get to draft him, godforbid for the sake of the nba, he might get into a car accident and lose a foot.

    My point being, nothing is for certain, let's just take the season one game at a time, try our luck, and see what happens. Hopefully Casey can figure out a way for the team to play hard on the D consistently, and BC to figure out how to solve the personnel issues (what to do with Bargs, Jose's expiring contract, wing players, etc etc).

  11. #11
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    i think you blow it up and try to get as many picks as you can and let things fall as they may. regardless, we'll most likely end up losing our pick this year.
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Do I want the Raptors to finish bottom 3? No. That would be painful and guarantees nothing but a lost season.

    Do I want the obligations to OKC removed from the Raptors debt owed? Yup.

    Do I want the Raptors to build upon the progress of last season? Abso-f'in-lutely.

    Do I want the Raptors to develop and play the current young talent of ED, DD, TR, JV? You know it.

    Do I want the Raptors to use Calderon/Bargnani/Kleiza/Amir to obtain as many picks as possible? Yes.

    Do I think those players will those players return picks on their own? Helllll no. Not a chance.

    Do I think the Raptors should volunteer to take on the worst of the worst contracts in the league in exchange for draft picks? Yes. I would not think twice.

    Do I think those worst contracts will hinder the Raptors? No. Those contracts aren't playing anyways, remember? Develop the youth. Eventually those big contracts are going to be expiring right around the time the stockpile of draft picks is rounding out the roster.

    Do I think this approach is risky? Yes but with current trade assets and history in free agency, the draft is the best way to get talent on the roster to become stars or trade for stars in combination with the horrible contracts that will eventually be expiring contracts.

    Do I think the Raptors will get Wiggins? I don't know. Right now they have as good as a shot as anyone else.

    Do I think everything is about Wiggins? No.

    Do I think everything should be about Wiggins? No.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    play for wins this year do whatever it takes trade any current player for #1 overall in 2014.

    As hard as 2 more mediocre to crap seasons will be, getting one of the top 3 picks in 014 should net us a true game changer and in this league you need one or best you can hope for is one-n-dones or late lotto picks. Fact, not fiction.
    LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

  14. #14
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Do I want the Raptors to finish bottom 3? No. That would be painful and guarantees nothing but a lost season.

    Do I want the obligations to OKC removed from the Raptors debt owed? Yup.

    Do I want the Raptors to build upon the progress of last season? Abso-f'in-lutely.

    Do I want the Raptors to develop and play the current young talent of ED, DD, TR, JV? You know it.

    Do I want the Raptors to use Calderon/Bargnani/Kleiza/Amir to obtain as many picks as possible? Yes.

    Do I think those players will those players return picks on their own? Helllll no. Not a chance.

    Do I think the Raptors should volunteer to take on the worst of the worst contracts in the league in exchange for draft picks? Yes. I would not think twice.

    Do I think those worst contracts will hinder the Raptors? No. Those contracts aren't playing anyways, remember? Develop the youth. Eventually those big contracts are going to be expiring right around the time the stockpile of draft picks is rounding out the roster.

    Do I think this approach is risky? Yes but with current trade assets and history in free agency, the draft is the best way to get talent on the roster to become stars or trade for stars in combination with the horrible contracts that will eventually be expiring contracts.

    Do I think the Raptors will get Wiggins? I don't know. Right now they have as good as a shot as anyone else.

    Do I think everything is about Wiggins? No.

    Do I think everything should be about Wiggins? No.
    Agree 100%

    Quote minks77 wrote: View Post
    play for wins this year do whatever it takes trade any current player for #1 overall in 2014.

    As hard as 2 more mediocre to crap seasons will be, getting one of the top 3 picks in 014 should net us a true game changer and in this league you need one or best you can hope for is one-n-dones or late lotto picks. Fact, not fiction.
    The Raps have nothing that will ensure a trade for the #1 draft in 2014, but Matt's suggestion to do everything to trade for picks in 2014 will give them the flexibility to work a deal that just might land them a couple (or 3?) high lottery picks.
    Last edited by Puffer; Tue Dec 18th, 2012 at 09:53 AM.

  15. #15
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    I think the goal this year is to win as many games as possible. It's not a great draft year and we already have a good bunch of young talent we need to develop, maybe not future superstars but some decent players who need to learn how to win together. I think a 9th or 10th place finish would be good for this team, they get to compete for the last payoff spot and we get our pick next year. Every team needs to eventually turn that corner and start actually trying to win games instead of tanking every season and I think this is the year the Raptors start working toward winning.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
    -Scudworth

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Do I ...
    Geez Matt, it's all about you, you, you all the time, isn't it?



    The more I think about it, the more I think we should keep Kleiza. It'll at least keep Colangelo happy. Kleiza is basically a shorter version of Bargnani, only he's much cheaper and does pretty much everything better.
    your pal,
    ebrian

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Oh wait, we don't want Colangelo to stick around though.. so nevermind that.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    I think the goal this year is to win as many games as possible. It's not a great draft year and we already have a good bunch of young talent we need to develop, maybe not future superstars but some decent players who need to learn how to win together. I think a 9th or 10th place finish would be good for this team, they get to compete for the last payoff spot and we get our pick next year. Every team needs to eventually turn that corner and start actually trying to win games instead of tanking every season and I think this is the year the Raptors start working toward winning.
    So compete this year? Tank next year? What can of message does that send to the players?

  19. #19
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    For me, I would do a couple things:

    Develop & keep Terrence Ross, Demar Derozan, Ed Davis, Jonas Valanciunas, and Kyle Lowry. Develop these guys, play them in the situations for them to learn and experience, and give them the playing time to be successful. Let these guys play together, and develop a chemistry, buy into the system (defensive system that is) of Dwane Casey, and make these guys the core pieces of our future. This list may include a potential star (Derozan, Valanciunas, Lowry), but whether the core contains a star, or not, these guys become untouchable to the sense, your building people around THEM, not building them around people/player.

    Use Jose Calderon, Andrea Bargnani, Amir Johnson, Linas Kleiza as trade-able assets or trade bait. A lot of possible money going out, but these are very capable players on wanting teams, with Jose's expiring contract as well, teams will acquire a 10$ million cap relief at the end of the season, allowing them to go into the off-season with open space for the 3 options (trade, free agency, draft).

    Win Games. #1 option is to win games. Bring back the defensive culture, and play the slow, grind it out offense. Run only on OPPORTUNITIES. Losing games is a lost season, the better you try to get, and improve over the season, usually brings momentum and a better team the next season. No doubt whoever the GM will be by the end of the season, moves will be made to better the guys. Ross, JV, Ed, Derozan, Lowry, Fields, Anderson, Acy, Gray, Lucas are guys I expect to be back next season. Bring back the 'winning-type' culture we had last season, and allow the players to work within' it. We've been successful doing it. Run & gun teams haven't been successful in the last couple years, why fix something that's not broken? (Well, actually our team's offense has been pretty broken, until we started playing slower.)

    Just a couple things I personally would do, but not to fond of using Jose as trade bait because first, he's a very, very good player. Key player when Lowry goes down. Also, we could use that expiring 10$ million at the end of the season being our financial flexibility was hampered a little bit with the Derozan signing. (Proving many wrong right now though.) I would only trade Calderon for the RIGHT deal.

    Also, I hope Pietrus stays. BUT, one year deal, likely to test free agency, and not part of our future, nor is he a trade-able asset.

  20. #20
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    So compete this year? Tank next year? What can of message does that send to the players?
    I meant no more tanking. Give these guys a chance to win, we've been drafting for five years and it's about time we started teaching our prospects how to win.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
    -Scudworth

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