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Thread: ESPN - Trade debates: Who stays, who goes?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    I cannot for the life of me get on board with all this blind Dwill love you guys are throwing around lately.Y'all have convinced yourself this lemon is a lime. Reminds me of years past when some of you were gettin wet at the possibility of beasley.
    "Analytics has a place. It can’t be the be all end all. I’m still trying to figure out when the Oakland Athletics won a championship with all the analytics they have."
    —Coach Hollins, who is a better basketball mind than you are.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic All-Star enlightenment's Avatar
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    He rebounds, he's athletic, he can score, he is also very young. And He will probably come off the bench, and be solid, with potential to be really good. Listen, Ridnour and DWill are amazing returns for Bargnani right now..
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote minks77 wrote: View Post
    I cannot for the life of me get on board with all this blind Dwill love you guys are throwing around lately.Y'all have convinced yourself this lemon is a lime. Reminds me of years past when some of you were gettin wet at the possibility of beasley.
    I would still be happy if we got Beasley. Beasley has had red flags throughout his basketball career(went to five different HS). Which is actually the reason why he didn't go #1 cause Derrick Rose was the safest pick even though Michael Beasly had the the higher skill level and talent. I feel like he still can live up to his potential he just needs the right place(example Zach Randolph) but, that's a story for another thread. Derrick Williams has never had any red flags. He just was never a fit for that T-Wolves team and they knew it since the beginning. They just did what your suppose to do. Pick the best player available.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic All-Star stretch's Avatar
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    Derrick Williams and Michael Beasley put the most effort into their NCAA careers and in the workouts leading up to the draft and have been coasting ever since.

    As for Verejao, he has been consistent when not working through injuries. Yes, he puts up great stats on a bad team, but don't forget he put up good stats on a very good Cleveland team just a few seasons ago.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie AngryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote minks77 wrote: View Post
    I cannot for the life of me get on board with all this blind Dwill love you guys are throwing around lately.Y'all have convinced yourself this lemon is a lime. Reminds me of years past when some of you were gettin wet at the possibility of beasley.
    +1 I don't get this obsession with DWill. Are we just assuming that he will become great once he is traded to Toronto?
    Don't follow me. @AngryRaptorsFan

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Starter Pill's Avatar
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    I love how we would have to include young talent just to get rid of this guy. Lamar Odom his ass, and tell him to go sit in Italy till we can amnesty him.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I would still be happy if we got Beasley. Beasley has had red flags throughout his basketball career(went to five different HS). Which is actually the reason why he didn't go #1 cause Derrick Rose was the safest pick even though Michael Beasly had the the higher skill level and talent. I feel like he still can live up to his potential he just needs the right place(example Zach Randolph) but, that's a story for another thread. Derrick Williams has never had any red flags. He just was never a fit for that T-Wolves team and they knew it since the beginning. They just did what your suppose to do. Pick the best player available.
    Mike B-eZ Can't carry D roses jock. Did a quick search because I don't remember their relative positions pre draft but if you want a good laugh read this:http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3...nba-mock-draft

    my favourite part:

    "Michael Beasley is a hybrid of so many players past and present, and is as much of a sure thing that we’ve seen in the draft since Tim Duncan.

    He combines Charles Barkley’s rebounding as an undersized power forward, Antawn Jamison’s versatility and ability to score from anywhere on the floor, Shawn Marion’s explosive leaping and offensive rebounding talents, and Carmelo Anthony’s quick first step and strength. I am not saying what Beasley could become; I am listing what Beasley is right now."
    "Analytics has a place. It can’t be the be all end all. I’m still trying to figure out when the Oakland Athletics won a championship with all the analytics they have."
    —Coach Hollins, who is a better basketball mind than you are.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    While looking over past mocks for 08 I noticed that Bayless was near universally ranked higher than Westbrook. Just goes to show you never can tell:

    http://www.nba.com/draft2008/board/mock.html
    "Analytics has a place. It can’t be the be all end all. I’m still trying to figure out when the Oakland Athletics won a championship with all the analytics they have."
    —Coach Hollins, who is a better basketball mind than you are.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote minks77 wrote: View Post
    While looking over past mocks for 08 I noticed that Bayless was near universally ranked higher than Westbrook. Just goes to show you never can tell:

    http://www.nba.com/draft2008/board/mock.html
    Yeah, I remember that.

    Durant and Harden might have been givens but Presti surprised many with the Westbrook selection and most had no clue about Ibaka. There are certainly some uncontrollable events that led to Durant and Harden but Presti had full control on Westbrook and Ibaka.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic All-Star TRex's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Ross and JV for Varejao?

    That might actually make me stop following the Raptors. Seriously. That would be beyond bad on so many levels.
    +1000

    Not sure what Chad Ford was thinking.
    Follow me on Twitter - @RRyan22

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote minks77 wrote: View Post
    Mike B-eZ Can't carry D roses jock. Did a quick search because I don't remember their relative positions pre draft but if you want a good laugh read this:http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3...nba-mock-draft

    my favourite part:

    "Michael Beasley is a hybrid of so many players past and present, and is as much of a sure thing that we’ve seen in the draft since Tim Duncan.

    He combines Charles Barkley’s rebounding as an undersized power forward, Antawn Jamison’s versatility and ability to score from anywhere on the floor, Shawn Marion’s explosive leaping and offensive rebounding talents, and Carmelo Anthony’s quick first step and strength. I am not saying what Beasley could become; I am listing what Beasley is right now."
    Obviously he can't now but, back than it wasn't such a far gone conclusion. At one point during the draft process Derrick Rose even said that B Easy was better than him. People have to remember that it's not just how good you are but, where you get drafted. Derrick Ross got the keys from day one and B Easy came off the bench for Haslem. Little stuff like that can change careers. It's all about confidence in the NBA. I honestly think if DeMar wasn't drafted by Toronto and fed minutes he would be as good as he is now.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    If Beasley were anywhere near what some of his predraft predictions were saying he'd of taken the starting spot from day one. Wade needed help carrying the scoring load more than anything else on that team. MB was given chances in Miami, he started 19 games and played an average of 24.8 minutes. He wasn't buried on the bench. At any rate it's looking like he cleaned up his act for his single college season and then gone back to more of what he was in HS: a talented scorer who is too small to play PF, too slow to play SF, not interested in playing D and not interested in maintaining focus without the ball in his hands. He has shown little growth, lack of discipline and focus issue. These were the red flags. They were right. 5 years, 3 teams (including a wide open window of opportunity in PHX) and he keeps falling on his face. NO THANK YOU. You really think he's a good idea after 7 years of Andrea?
    "Analytics has a place. It can’t be the be all end all. I’m still trying to figure out when the Oakland Athletics won a championship with all the analytics they have."
    —Coach Hollins, who is a better basketball mind than you are.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    Yeah exactly, But I still don't get why the Cavs want to trade Varejao
    I'm guessing they want to try and get as many young prospects and draft picks to add to their young nucleus of Irving, Waiters and Thompson. They are trying to build the right way (through the draft). Varejao is their most valuable, expendible peice. If they can land another top 5 pick or a young prospect like Biyombo for Varejao, they might be happy with that.

  14. #34
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    Quote minks77 wrote: View Post
    If Beasley were anywhere near what some of his predraft predictions were saying he'd of taken the starting spot from day one. Wade needed help carrying the scoring load more than anything else on that team. MB was given chances in Miami, he started 19 games and played an average of 24.8 minutes. He wasn't buried on the bench. At any rate it's looking like he cleaned up his act for his single college season and then gone back to more of what he was in HS: a talented scorer who is too small to play PF, too slow to play SF, not interested in playing D and not interested in maintaining focus without the ball in his hands. He has shown little growth, lack of discipline and focus issue. These were the red flags. They were right. 5 years, 3 teams (including a wide open window of opportunity in PHX) and he keeps falling on his face. NO THANK YOU. You really think he's a good idea after 7 years of Andrea?
    Good post. Agree with everything.

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote minks77 wrote: View Post
    If Beasley were anywhere near what some of his predraft predictions were saying he'd of taken the starting spot from day one. Wade needed help carrying the scoring load more than anything else on that team. MB was given chances in Miami, he started 19 games and played an average of 24.8 minutes. He wasn't buried on the bench. At any rate it's looking like he cleaned up his act for his single college season and then gone back to more of what he was in HS: a talented scorer who is too small to play PF, too slow to play SF, not interested in playing D and not interested in maintaining focus without the ball in his hands. He has shown little growth, lack of discipline and focus issue. These were the red flags. They were right. 5 years, 3 teams (including a wide open window of opportunity in PHX) and he keeps falling on his face. NO THANK YOU. You really think he's a good idea after 7 years of Andrea?
    +1

    Would never touch Beasley.

    I believe a Phoenix anonymous front office person referred to him as "toxic".
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote minks77 wrote: View Post
    If Beasley were anywhere near what some of his predraft predictions were saying he'd of taken the starting spot from day one. Wade needed help carrying the scoring load more than anything else on that team. MB was given chances in Miami, he started 19 games and played an average of 24.8 minutes. He wasn't buried on the bench. At any rate it's looking like he cleaned up his act for his single college season and then gone back to more of what he was in HS: a talented scorer who is too small to play PF, too slow to play SF, not interested in playing D and not interested in maintaining focus without the ball in his hands. He has shown little growth, lack of discipline and focus issue. These were the red flags. They were right. 5 years, 3 teams (including a wide open window of opportunity in PHX) and he keeps falling on his face. NO THANK YOU. You really think he's a good idea after 7 years of Andrea?
    They use to say the same thing about Zach Randolph

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    They use to say the same thing about Zach Randolph
    True. But if we are using Z-Bo as the measuring stick, there are still a few teams and 5 years to go before he should be considered.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    True. But if we are using Z-Bo as the measuring stick, there are still a few teams and 5 years to go before he should be considered.
    Lol hopefully we would speed that process up.

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    True. But if we are using Z-Bo as the measuring stick, there are still a few teams and 5 years to go before he should be considered.
    Randolph also produced everywhere he went. This was a 20-10 guy whose dedication to winning was questioned. Beasley the question is more than just dedication. Its can he produce, can he be consistent, can he be efficient, where does he fit and then can he become dedicated.

    Thats alot more questions that Randolph had.

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    Quote minks77 wrote: View Post
    I cannot for the life of me get on board with all this blind Dwill love you guys are throwing around lately.Y'all have convinced yourself this lemon is a lime. Reminds me of years past when some of you were gettin wet at the possibility of beasley.
    It was Jonny Flynn and other "diamonds in the rough" like him before that. If we were to take a look at the young, non-star players many posters wanted to acquire over the past few years, I bet a large proportion are now deep bench players or out of the NBA.

    I am OK with this being basically a popularity contest; we all have soft spots for certain type of players.

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