Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Draft Day 2012 and onwards - What would you have done?

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    15
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Draft Day 2012 and onwards - What would you have done?

    It's my first post so go easy on me, and sorry for the essay.

    With all this talk about the biggest failures of Bryan Colangelo, I thought I’d ask the question, “What would you have REALISTICALLY done differently if they had fired BC and hired you before the 2012 draft?”

    Here’s what I would have HONESTLY done:
    • Draft Andre Drummond and Quincy Miller (because I read DraftExpress a lot)
    • Trade Valanciunas, Demar Derozan, and 35th pick (Quincy Miller) for James Harden and 28th pick (Perry Jones III) – OKC would make this trade!
    • Keep Perry Jones III or trade him to Chicago for Marquis Teague (picked 29th) or Jimmy Butler; Chicago probably doesn’t bite on a project PF because they have the rights to Mirotic and need a back-up point guard, so we may end up keeping Jones III.
    • Trade next lottery pick for Kyle Lowry (top 3 protected)
    • Re-sign Alan Anderson
    • Trade Andrea Bargnani for anything (hopefully a small forward or else a trade exception and a 2013/2014 pick). Every year I plan to disavow the Raps unless they unload him, so this pleases me.
    • Amnesty Linas Kleiza and his 9 million for the next two years (signalling a new era of watchability)
    • Sign Louis Williams to a 3 year 18 million deal
    o If he won’t go for the extra money because he went to high school in Georgia, sign Alexy Shved to a 3 year 11 million deal (because he was the MAN for Russia at only 23 and he’s destined to be a clutch shotmaker)
    • If we netted a trade exception and a pick in the Bargnani deal, we sign Landry Fields to a 3 year 14 million offer sheet
    o If NYK matches, we trade cash for Kyle Korver (last year of contract that pays 5 mil) or sign one of the Brewers (Corey at 3 mil or Ronnie at 2 mil). We stay patient and use a future pick on a young small forward.
    • Sign 2-3 veterans with remaining 8-10 million: I suggest any of C Brewer (3 per), R Brewer (2 per), R Evans (2 per), J O’Neal (min), S Pavlovic (1.5 per), M Pietrus (2 per), but I gather the input of my coaches before going after anyone.
    • Sign a partially-guaranteed D-leaguer or two

    2012-2013 Salary
    Guards (22): Kyle Lowry (6), Louis Williams (6), Jose Calderon (10)
    Wings (12): James Harden (6), Landry Fields or Kyle Korver (5), Alan Anderson (1)
    Bigs (12.5): Amir Johnson (7), Ed Davis (3), Andre Drummond (2.5),
    Other (1): Perry Jones III or Marquis Teague (1)
    2012-13 Salary = 47.5 million + 10 million for three noted vets and a D-leaguer to stay under the cap
    2013-14 Salary = Calderon’s 10 mil covers the +8 for Harden’s extension and annual increases for other players. Some of the other 10 mil has to be on one year contracts to extend Davis at season’s end while staying under the luxury tax threshold.

    Ideal 2013-14 nine man rotation (age at start of 2013-14 season)
    Starters
    PG: Kyle Lowry (27)
    SG: James Harden (24)
    SF: Landry Fields (25)
    PF: Ed Davis (24)
    C: Andre Drummond (20)
    6th man / Bench scorer: Louis Williams (27)
    Back-ups
    PG: Marcus Teague (20)
    Wing: Corey Brewer (27)
    Big: Amir Johnson (26)
    Rotation Salary = 47 million

    Strengths: ATHLETICISM! (height, speed, aggressiveness), rebounding, 2-way potential, identity, guard-play
    Weaknesses: Outside shooting of forwards and big men, unknown development of Drummond, Davis, and Teague

    What would need to happen to contend for a trophy:
    Landry Fields > 40% 3pt
    Ed Davis > 45% mid-range
    Andre Drummond > 60% FT
    Lowry > 75 games played
    OKC plane crash! :P

    BC’s 2013-14 nine man rotation
    Starters
    PG: Kyle Lowry (27)
    SG: Terrence Ross (22)
    SF: Demar Derozan (24)
    PF: Ed Davis (24)
    C: Jonas Valanciunas (21)
    6th man / Bench scorer: Andrea Bargnani (28)
    Back-ups
    PG: John Lucas III (20)
    Wing: Landry Fields (27)
    Big: Amir Johnson (26)
    Rotation Salary = 50 million

    Did I do much better? I'm not really sure I did.

    What would be your realistic 2013-2014 roster if you started from draft day 2012?

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,119
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Wow detailed. Nothing wrong starting out with a bang!

    Mine is going to be much more simple

    1) try and package Andrea Bargnani or Demar Derozan + #8 pick in an attempt to move up in the draft. Any spot higher than #7.

    2) if the above doesn't happen or Demar is included, trade Andrea for almost anything. Preferable a first round pick or cap space.

    3) should the team still have been left with the #8 pick - draft Drummond

    4) look to add future picks by most means. Only untouchable would have been Jonas + whatever pick(s) were made.

    5) Do nothing or little else other than basic and simple signings to fill out the roster. Accept another year of losing and keep rebuilding.

  3. #3
    Raptors Republic Starter japetas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    202
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I think it's easy to talk after 1/3 season is already played. Did you even know the guy like Alex Shved before the start of this season, and did you consider Ed Davis as a starting caliber PF in preseason? It was hard to predict so early Harden's trade too...
    (Sorry for poor English )

  4. #4
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    15
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    To be honest, I have no idea what you're supposed to say, but I'm learning as I go on this. I just thought it would be fun take look back and take a realistic stab at GM now that you know what deals were available and how players were valued.

    I guess my question is do you think this scenario was realistic?

    Can you make one that is realistic?
    Last edited by red monkey; Wed Dec 19th, 2012 at 11:47 AM.

  5. #5
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    504
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    What are we supposed to say here...that this team would probably be better than the one we have now? ok I agree!

  6. #6
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    15
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I was going by what I knew from the last full length season. In that year, Amir ranked 32nd in WS/48 for big men that played at least 1000 minutes, and he was only 23. In the same year, Ed Davis ranked 3rd among rookies for the same measure (behind Blake Griffin and Greg Monroe, and he was only 21. I was happy with a platoon at power forward, and hoped that Ed would finish ahead of Amir in the long run. They're just stats and I couldn't have predicted that Ed would clean up his jumper as well as he did. That's why Amir was higher ranked for this season and I expected Ed to surpass Amir if things went right and he developed a jumper and hook shot. Otherwise, the gamble was a flop. But Drummond was also a huge gamble. He was perhaps the 2nd best defender in the NCAA last year, but I expected his offense to be a major liability at first. I still would've taken him and planned to start him in his second year. He was only 18 at the draft, so I couldn't have passed on that kind of talent.

  7. #7
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    15
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    And to answer your question about Shved, I live in Europe and I've seen him play enough to know his game, but the euroleague final is what did it for me. He took over when Kirilenko disappeared and he seemed supremely confident, even if they did lose to Olympiakos in the end.

  8. #8
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    New Brunswick
    Posts
    1,524
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Well there are two ways to approach this. If this is what I would have done knowing what I know now, your breakdown is awesome and most of what you say could have happened. The only difference I might make is that if we got Harden I wouldn't trade for Lowry. The two of them don't compliment each other very well IMO, both are slashers and scorers. I would stick with Jose as my starter and Lou as the back up.

    If we take the perspective of running through the excercise of what we would have done in BC's shoes, I actually don't have that much of a problem with it. Some of the things he did that I wouldn't have done (extend DD, draft Ross) have actually worked out pretty well. I think I would have traded Bargs by now and I probably wouldn't have signed Field for as much as he did but overall it is hard to look at the moves and complain too much. Bargs lingering here is the only really big issue.

    Great first post, I enjoyed it.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
    -Scudworth

  9. #9
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    8,818
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I don't agree with much of anything you posted. I would change a few things, but not that many.

    Draft: I would have traded down after Barnes was gone at 8. I still have doubts about Drummond making the most of his potential, and with JV I think we will have a more all-around, fundamentally sound player. If Drummond loses his explosiveness due to injury, or you know, his fat ass, he doesn't have any other tools at the moment. I would have traded down, and honestly, no shit guys, I love that we picked Terrence Ross, but thought he was someone we could trade down for and would have been my first choice, with these others as options: Jared Sullinger, Terrence Jones, Moe Harkless. I think Sullinger would've been good insurance in terms of having a scorer on the PF depth chart, because even though I wouldn't trade Bargs in the offseason, I would want to be prepared for that eventuality. BUT, we ended up drafting Ross anyway, so I'll assume we end up with him, trading down or not.
    2nd round pick: I agree with you here, I think the Raps took the wrong Quincy. Miller might have questions about his body, but his talent is off the charts. I have nothing against Acy, but it's hard to see him as anything other than the 4th or 5th big at best on any team. I think if you believed in your own overhyped sports science and medicine staff, you would draft for that talent, and spend the whole year working on his body. It's not like Acy has seen any run.

    Free agents: I don't necessarily think I would have gone after Nash, but I certainly would not have made that offer sheet to Fields. Even if he was a target, and I like him, and hope his shooting touch does come back, I would have offered him something like 10 million over 3 years, maybe as high as 12 mill. I do think this FA class did end up being a crapshoot. I think though, my first SF target might've been Kirilenko, and if I couldn't get him at something like 3 years/20 million, then I would make the Fields offer. Other than that, I fully approve with the Alan Anderson re-signing, and wouldn't want another 2 guard, with Ross backing up Demar. I am ok with the Aaron Gray signing, but I was really hoping we go after Camby to be a vet on our team. Frankly, if we did draft Ross and Miller, than we'd have an open big spot and could maybe sign Gray and Camby. I was also a fan of the Lucas signing as a 3rd guard...So, I'd hope to pick up Kirilenko, Anderson, Gray, Camby and Lucas.

    Trades: Was a big fan of the Lowry trade, and the only deal I would try over it would be to get Bledsoe away from the Clippers in a similar deal. Maybe for an unprotected 1st rounder this year. I honestly don't know what it will take to get him, but given his low-cost deal, I don't see how the Clips can expect to get a useful player back. Maybe I'd offer them a 2014 protected pick (top 10 in 2014, top 5 in 2015, and #1 in 2016) as well. 2 first rd picks for Bledsoe is steep, but I was a big fan of his and thought he was a draft option on 2010.

    So, if everything went through, the team would look like:
    PG: Jose, Bledsoe (younger than Lowry and could ease him into the starter's role), Lucas
    SG: Demar, Ross
    SF: Kirilenko, Anderson, Miller
    PF: Andrea, Ed, Kleiza
    C: JV, Amir, Gray, Camby

    In my mind, this team has some better vets mixed in than the one we currently have. None of them would take minutes from our prospect. Kirilenko would help stabilize our SF position. Bledsoe...man, I'd really love to have that kid. He's too good to be playing so few minutes. I really wonder what it'll take to get him away from the Clippers. Miller would give a prospect who'd love to get fed minutes when injuries happen, but that there wouldn't be pressure to play him or high expectations at all for teh season. And I think Camby would give us a veteran big man we desperately need, even if he only saw time when there's foul trouble on JV and Amir. Our team overall would not look much different, but I think chemistry would be much better.
    Note: I would be quick to trade Bargs if he didn't bring even 90% of that 13-game Bargs. I suppose everything depends on offers, but as long as we didn't have to trade any of our young players away in any deal, I'd be open to lots of scenarios.

  10. #10
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Markham
    Posts
    1,544
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Some good ideas here. I guess the problem with the Raptors is that the screw-ups started around 4 years ago. I haven't thought much about alternatives, but here's 3 things I wouldn't have done:

    -sign Landry Fields
    -trade for Kyle Lowry
    -extend DeMar DeRozan

    Remove those 3 things and I think we're still basically on track for whatever. I would have stuck with Jose Calderon (ie the rebuild). He's the best option available for developing young talent because all he does is run your offense and distribute. I'd have traded Bargs years ago.. but would I have traded him during this offseason? Probably not aggressively, especially after Ed Davis' disappointing 2nd season.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  11. #11
    Raptors Republic Starter Deadallus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    202
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    This was well thought out but it is dependent on a lot of if's, and maybe's, such as teams accepting trades and player willing to sign. Fantasy basketball at its finest.
    Deadallus

  12. #12
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    15
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I like the roster with Kirilenko but his asking price was 10+ million per year, and that would have been tough to stomach at the time, even if I like it now. I have just been so desperate to get rid of Andrea for so many years that I chose to unload him as a starting point, and it was a bonus that his value might've been high. I also valued Drummond as the 2nd best prospect in the draft (mostly because I respect Givony's opinion) and I heard rumblings that Harden could be had for Valanciunas. I think Harden is a future superstar and Demar had always been averse to defense and rebounding so I considered Demar disposable. Plus I figured that OKC would want a decent young shooting guard in return. I like the Ross draft pick, but I know for certain that I would have taken Drummond as the BPA and gone from there. I probably would've overpaid for Fields as well at 3 years 14 million, but I still like him as a player.

    The one thing I don't know is whether or not I would have gone after Nash. That could screw up everything, which I think it ultimately did for BC. My problem with the way he did it is that Andrea is useless without Nash, so there really was no backup plan. The potential reward did not merit the risk, and now we're stuck with the same old Andrea.

  13. #13
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Rexdale
    Posts
    1,098
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    i would have traded

    bargs+jose+demar for LBJ+ray allen+wade

    then i hire Phil Jackson to coach

    if that didnt work i prob just trade Bargs for a rack of towels & a fridge full of Gatorade.. if that didnt work.. maybe a bag of peanuts even...

  14. #14
    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    904
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Very good first post - I dont agree with everything .. but I at least think that everything (in isolation) that you have suggested is realistic. Thats quite the accomplishment around here, as many people's trades / hindsight are completely unrealistic (whehter its JCs trade value or the fact that "everyone" would have taken Gay, who went 8th! instead of AB).

    I think the only thing that is unrealistic about what have suggested is that its a shitload of moves in a very short timeframe! The chances of all of those things falling into place for the same team are very, very remote.

    In terms of what I would have done .. it would have been more simple. I would have taken Drummond 8. Not to keep him necessarily, but to have him as an asset to either trade that night or down the road. I love T Ross (hes my favourite Rap right now (not the best player, I know .. but maybe our best sign of hope?!) - but the fact is we took him 3 or 4 spots higher than we needed to. Worst case, we trade Drummond to someone for T Ross + something. If that doesnt fly, we have a lot of 2/3s anyways (LF, DD, AA, LK) - so not the end of the world to have AD, JV and our other frontcourt guys.

    Of course, that probably means you move one or more of AB, ED or AJ. Nobody knew AB was going to be as historically bad as he has been this year .. so its easy to say trade him now .. but realistically I would have traded the guy who got me the most value (probably Ed, or maybe JV if you could get something REALLY good back). Bottom line, Ed, JV and AD is probably overkill for post players with max 12 foot range offensively.

    Id probably still to the lowry deal. Hes cheap and has a lot of potential (notwithstanding the rocky play lately). I pay LF half of what we paid him (ok maybe a little more .. but 3/12 at the most).

    Net net, I wouldnt be miles away from where BC is today .. but I think we could be better off with a few simple changes.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •