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Thread: Lowry. Bargnani and the new Raptors

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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Default Lowry. Bargnani and the new Raptors

    So I have seen a bunch of articles all stating that we are doing so great without the two of them in the lineup.

    However I think it has more to do with ONE of them being out of the lineup. Bargnani, was a ball stopping long two taking chucker thus far this season.

    Lowry has a tendancy to play hero ball and gamble on passing lanes.

    I believe Lowry will be able to adjust his game far easier than Bargnani will.

    I still think Lowry has a place as the starting PG on this team.

    What do you guys think?

    Is it one causing the grief or both? Do you think one will adjust easier coming back than the other?

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Hands down Lowry is still the starting PG, he does a lot of things we do need for the team. With ow things are going and Lowry's mentality winning above all he will buy in no doubt Bargnani however wont he is what he has always been since he was drafted, he either cant change or refuses to.

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    Raptors Republic Starter phez's Avatar
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    If BC does not trade Bargs I will be very disappointed.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote phez wrote: View Post
    If BC does not trade Bargs I will be very disappointed.
    hopefully Larry Tananbum thinks the same.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    So I have seen a bunch of articles all stating that we are doing so great without the two of them in the lineup.

    I believe Lowry will be able to adjust his game far easier than Bargnani will.
    Based on what happened when he played in Houston, 'adjusting his game' is not Lowry's strong suit.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Quote JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    Based on what happened when he played in Houston, 'adjusting his game' is not Lowry's strong suit.
    If he continues to play hero ball, if he continues to chuck up unnecessary shots, you gotta move him.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    If he continues to play hero ball, if he continues to chuck up unnecessary shots, you gotta move him.
    People need to relax. The only difference between the shots that Kyle Lowry took before his first injury and after are that they went in. It's like Alan Anderson if the shots his been taking lately weren't going in everybody would be calling him a chucker. People in this forum are so not used to having a player that's not afraid of the big moment. Like it or not Lowry is are best player production wise, talent wise and toughness wise. This what good players do they take shots that average player are scared of taking. Don't tell me Calderon does that all the time too. It's easy to take a shot when the ball is passed out to with the clock going down and you don't even have to think about it. What do you guys think "closers"? Players that are willing to take shot knowing if they miss it's on them. It's takes guts to live with that and too keep taking those shots.

    I don't want to take anything away from Calderon cause, his playing extremely well. Lets not start a debate here. There is no way Calderon will survive through this PG. The PG slayer has finally met his match.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    The only difference between the shots that Kyle Lowry took before his first injury and after are that they went in.
    Before his injury, the shots were going in, but I could even see then that he was looking off his teammates.

    As for Lowry not being afraid of the big moment...read this: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...illard-lessons. A great breakdown of the whole idea of NBA 'closers'.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    People need to relax. The only difference between the shots that Kyle Lowry took before his first injury and after are that they went in. It's like Alan Anderson if the shots his been taking lately weren't going in everybody would be calling him a chucker. People in this forum are so not used to having a player that's not afraid of the big moment. Like it or not Lowry is are best player production wise, talent wise and toughness wise. This what good players do they take shots that average player are scared of taking. Don't tell me Calderon does that all the time too. It's easy to take a shot when the ball is passed out to with the clock going down and you don't even have to think about it. What do you guys think "closers"? Players that are willing to take shot knowing if they miss it's on them. It's takes guts to live with that and too keep taking those shots.

    I don't want to take anything away from Calderon cause, his playing extremely well. Lets not start a debate here. There is no way Calderon will survive through this PG. The PG slayer has finally met his match.


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    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    lowry is the exact same player he was last year. the same player he was the year before that and the same player he will be next year. anyone that wasn't expecting him to play his game while with the raptors didn't know who lowry was besides a name or what the papers said he was. lowry is a boss. same time people are saying we don't need hero ballers they want to trade for gay because he plays hero ball at the end of games.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    People need to relax. The only difference between the shots that Kyle Lowry took before his first injury and after are that they went in. It's like Alan Anderson if the shots his been taking lately weren't going in everybody would be calling him a chucker. People in this forum are so not used to having a player that's not afraid of the big moment. Like it or not Lowry is are best player production wise, talent wise and toughness wise. This what good players do they take shots that average player are scared of taking. Don't tell me Calderon does that all the time too. It's easy to take a shot when the ball is passed out to with the clock going down and you don't even have to think about it. What do you guys think "closers"? Players that are willing to take shot knowing if they miss it's on them. It's takes guts to live with that and too keep taking those shots.

    I don't want to take anything away from Calderon cause, his playing extremely well. Lets not start a debate here. There is no way Calderon will survive through this PG. The PG slayer has finally met his match.
    Great post.

    The only thing I would mention is, upon return, Lowry does need to be more selective in applying his extremely large testicular fortitude.
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    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Great post.

    The only thing I would mention is, upon return, Lowry does need to be more selective in applying his extremely large testicular fortitude.
    hahaha, and one!

    Folks also need to remember that this win streak, sweet as it is, is coming against Cleveland, Pistons, a pretty dysfunctional Mavs team and a Houston team that seemed to be looking ahead to the NYK game the next night (if you watched the NYK/HOU game you saw a totally different effort than the one they put up vs TO). Magic up next. Jose and Jameer have had a lil somethin' goin on for years and JJ is ballin. Magic are playing quite well and as a team so it's not a gimme but is still a "getable" game. @Spurs on boxing day will be tough.
    LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    People need to relax. The only difference between the shots that Kyle Lowry took before his first injury and after are that they went in. It's like Alan Anderson if the shots his been taking lately weren't going in everybody would be calling him a chucker. People in this forum are so not used to having a player that's not afraid of the big moment. Like it or not Lowry is are best player production wise, talent wise and toughness wise. This what good players do they take shots that average player are scared of taking. Don't tell me Calderon does that all the time too. It's easy to take a shot when the ball is passed out to with the clock going down and you don't even have to think about it. What do you guys think "closers"? Players that are willing to take shot knowing if they miss it's on them. It's takes guts to live with that and too keep taking those shots.

    I don't want to take anything away from Calderon cause, his playing extremely well. Lets not start a debate here. There is no way Calderon will survive through this PG. The PG slayer has finally met his match.
    When he comes back, Lowry is and will be the best player in this team. Period.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Quote minks77 wrote: View Post
    hahaha, and one!

    Folks also need to remember that this win streak, sweet as it is, is coming against Cleveland, Pistons, a pretty dysfunctional Mavs team and a Houston team that seemed to be looking ahead to the NYK game the next night (if you watched the NYK/HOU game you saw a totally different effort than the one they put up vs TO). Magic up next. Jose and Jameer have had a lil somethin' goin on for years and JJ is ballin. Magic are playing quite well and as a team so it's not a gimme but is still a "getable" game. @Spurs on boxing day will be tough.
    Give credit where credit is due. They're winning because they're playing differently. And even though the refs are doing there damnedest to try to give away the games the Raptors fortitude is finally showing through. This is still the NBA and these are still professional basketball teams so beating them and stringing wins together is notable, particularly considering our inability prior to these games.

    And aren't we being a tad assumptive about Houston looking ahead to NY. Seriously...you don't or can't know that.

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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    When he comes back, Lowry is and will be the best player in this team. Period.
    Talent wise absolutely, but that is just the basis for everything. He needs to suit and serve the team or else his talent becomes secondary to the damage he does.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Great post.

    The only thing I would mention is, upon return, Lowry does need to be more selective in applying his extremely large testicular fortitude.
    Absolutely, And 1...

    Sometimes you just got a sense with Lowry that he was testing his own personal limits. I made that shot...hmm, maybe I can make a harder one. Maybe even a more difficult one. Oh, I missed that. I can get it next time. I hope he can learn from Jose and visa versa.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    People need to relax. The only difference between the shots that Kyle Lowry took before his first injury and after are that they went in. It's like Alan Anderson if the shots his been taking lately weren't going in everybody would be calling him a chucker. People in this forum are so not used to having a player that's not afraid of the big moment. Like it or not Lowry is are best player production wise, talent wise and toughness wise. This what good players do they take shots that average player are scared of taking. Don't tell me Calderon does that all the time too. It's easy to take a shot when the ball is passed out to with the clock going down and you don't even have to think about it. What do you guys think "closers"? Players that are willing to take shot knowing if they miss it's on them. It's takes guts to live with that and too keep taking those shots.

    I don't want to take anything away from Calderon cause, his playing extremely well. Lets not start a debate here. There is no way Calderon will survive through this PG. The PG slayer has finally met his match.
    +1

    Just wanted to add that Lowry is not the passer Jose is, but Lowry has that killer instinct which Jose lacks. They are both very different PG's, but I think once the schedule gets tough again and we start facing better teams people will see that Lowry is the better option as our starting PG. I love what Jose is doing right now, but it's no conincidence that his stellar play comes against bad teams with young, inexperienced PG's.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Holy Craptors's Avatar
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    We shouldn't be talking about these two players in the same breath. It's convenient to talk about Lowry and Bargnani together because they're both injured, but it isn't really fair.

    Bargnani has had YEARS to prove his value, and he gets benefit-of-the-doubt time and time again. Lowry has barely had time to adjust to his new team, and he's had his good and his bad moments.

    It's clear Bargnani's got to go, but Lowry needs the rest of the season before we can assess whether he's a good fit or not.
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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    +1

    Just wanted to add that Lowry is not the passer Jose is, but Lowry has that killer instinct which Jose lacks. They are both very different PG's, but I think once the schedule gets tough again and we start facing better teams people will see that Lowry is the better option as our starting PG. I love what Jose is doing right now, but it's no conincidence that his stellar play comes against bad teams with young, inexperienced PG's.
    no its not a coincidence. Those just happen to be the teams he's been playing while starting this stretch. If we look at his previous stretch they include a 14 -11 + 13 - 12 night against Holiday, a 20-17 against Mo Williams (triple over time ofcourse), a triple double against Hill, 10-9 against Rondo, a 9 - 18 against Nelson and a 10-15 against Deron.


    Lets not pretend that this stretch of games is just 'chance' events based on his current opposition. Jose has been consistently stellar as a starter this year against ALL opposition.

    I know fans don't want a 'pg controversy', but its here. Jose play absolutely demands it. Doesn't make Lowry a worse player or a bad player or the back up, but one can't ignore just how absolutely phenomenal Jose has been. Not only individually, but in terms of helping this team.


    Semi related note : Assuming Casey will run a 2 pg line up when Lowry is back (and he will), perhaps its time Lowry starts playing off the ball instead of Jose.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    ...Semi related note : Assuming Casey will run a 2 pg line up when Lowry is back (and he will), perhaps its time Lowry starts playing off the ball instead of Jose.
    The way it should have been from day one. Crazy to have Jose playing SG with his play-making ability.

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