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Lowry. Bargnani and the new Raptors

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  • #31
    Craiger wrote: View Post
    To add to this within the context of this thread, one has to ask the question... how much of this teams turn around is due to Bargnani, Lowry or both being out? I personally think its alot more about Bargnani missing games than Lowry. And we'll likely see that when Lowry returns.

    Regardless, even when/if Bargnani does come back, and even if he does play great, the team has to take that opportunity and trade him. As you said, how long until he reverts to the mean? We've seen it time and time again. He won't play as bad as he did to start the year for an entire season, but he won't play as good as he did to start last season for a year either.
    Amen.

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    • #32
      Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
      People need to relax. The only difference between the shots that Kyle Lowry took before his first injury and after are that they went in. It's like Alan Anderson if the shots his been taking lately weren't going in everybody would be calling him a chucker. People in this forum are so not used to having a player that's not afraid of the big moment. Like it or not Lowry is are best player production wise, talent wise and toughness wise. This what good players do they take shots that average player are scared of taking. Don't tell me Calderon does that all the time too. It's easy to take a shot when the ball is passed out to with the clock going down and you don't even have to think about it. What do you guys think "closers"? Players that are willing to take shot knowing if they miss it's on them. It's takes guts to live with that and too keep taking those shots.

      I don't want to take anything away from Calderon cause, his playing extremely well. Lets not start a debate here. There is no way Calderon will survive through this PG. The PG slayer has finally met his match.
      I swear, we are brothers from different mothers. Is that how the saying goes? hehehe

      I couldnt have said it better myself.

      I think the real test for Calderon is the Spurs game. I want to see how he does when his bigs and wings get tied up by the opponents tight D, what is he going to do then?

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      • #33
        mountio wrote: View Post
        Youve got a lot of +1s for this point ... but heres another. Im calling AA a chucker as is, cause I just dont think he has the talent to keep hitting these shots.

        One other point that I havent heard much about is the Raps seem to be running a better offense the last few games. They run their wings around a few screens to start each play .. work the ball from side to side and even pull out a little old school weave with their perimeter guys from time to time. When KL was playing we had the ridiculous pic n pop with AB/AJ/JV offense. The ball went from PG to screener and thats about it, while 2/3 sat in the corner/wing. As a result, KL was stuck in late shock clock situations and this fed right into his chucker mentality. Hopefully with greater movement and ball reversal, KL will fare better.

        One thing I will say in JOse's defense .. is he does seem to have figured out the true pick n roll (not the bs pic n pop) with JV, Ed and AJ (he always had it with AJ). Its got us a lot of easy hoops .. I hope KL can pick that up too ..
        To add to that, Cleveland, Houston and Detroit probably are among the bottom feeders when it comes to team perimeter defense. Not take anything away from AA, but if you dont get pressured, you are bound to sink shots.

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        • #34
          Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post
          I actually think Bargnani could slip back in to the mix easier than Lowry ... all Bargs needs to do is share the rock and hit open opportunities ... Lowry needs to swallow the big pill that he CAN'T play hero ball - it kills everything that's good about the sport.
          I get the feeling Lowry was trying to play hero ball because the team was struggling and he was trying to take over games. If he returns and the team is still playing well I don't think he'll push the issue as much. But you are correct that Bargnani would have an easier time getting back into the rotation. He is much more familiar with the players and team offense than is Lowry.

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          • #35
            I agree with most of what everyone's been saying, including:

            - Bargnani needs to be traded
            - Lowry needs to choose a better shot selection, but probably the best player on team
            - Jose been playing well all year, not just against inferior point guards

            I know I'm in the minority here but I really think Lowry is the one who should be traded between the two point guards that we have.
            your pal,
            ebrian

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            • #36
              ebrian wrote: View Post
              I agree with most of what everyone's been saying, including:

              - Bargnani needs to be traded
              - Lowry needs to choose a better shot selection, but probably the best player on team
              - Jose been playing well all year, not just against inferior point guards

              I know I'm in the minority here but I really think Lowry is the one who should be traded between the two point guards that we have.
              I am surprised you feel this way.

              What do you see as major differences between Lowry and Kemba? The reason I ask is because I know you were a HUUUGE Kemba fan but yet his game is much more similar, in my opinion, to Lowry than Jose.

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              • #37
                SitnonDfence wrote: View Post
                They go in. He's still a chucker. Just an efficent one. ATM.

                When he makes back to back shots, i cringe because i know the next two will be bad shots early in the clock. There are very few people in this league that should be doing a "heat check" and AA is not one of them.
                +100 .. i keep saying it .. this AA thing will end badly if he keeps thinking he's a scorer ... if he sticks to D and rebounding, he can be a nice piece in the rotation

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                • #38
                  Matt52 wrote: View Post
                  I am surprised you feel this way.

                  What do you see as major differences between Lowry and Kemba? The reason I ask is because I know you were a HUUUGE Kemba fan but yet his game is much more similar, in my opinion, to Lowry than Jose.
                  Interesting point you brought up. Actually, their similarities have everything to do with it. We're rebuilding a franchise here. Major difference is that Lowry is the best player on this team, and as an established player would net the largest possible return in a trade of any player we have right now. Jose is the better fit as we develop players. By the time his contract expires (I'd offer Jose a 3 year deal worth about $15-16m starting next season) Kemba would have taken over as the starter. No point in talking about what could have been, but basically we would have had a younger but better version of Lowry in 2-3 years.

                  This team, more than anything, needs to develop their young talent and increase (literally, stockpile) it. As I stated in another thread, Lowry would be GREAT on a team when it's in its contending stages (as Kemba would as well). Thing is, Kemba would be demanding $4m at that time whereas Lowry will be demanding closer to $10m.

                  Btw, MKG seems to be developing just fine with Kemba at the helm, and I haven't heard any McHale-like complaints from the coach about Kemba.
                  your pal,
                  ebrian

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                  • #39
                    I would have no problems trading Lowry as well since he (and JV) are our most prized assets (especially since we can't use a first round pick in any trade).

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                    • #40
                      I don't see why we have to move either Jose or Lowry. Our most recent success came with the Forderon line up. Lowry is better than Ford and I love the idea of the different looks these guys give. Plus they only cost like 15 million together. Are Jose and Lowry the equal of one max point guard? I think so.
                      "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

                      -Churchill

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                      • #41
                        Jose always discovers his point guard skills when there is another pointguard competting for his job. Then, when we ship one of the point guards out, he goes back to the old Jose.

                        I don't think its a concious choice. I think he is a nice guy and wants to do what is best for the team, but I do think that his blood temperature increases when there is competition and as a result he becomes a better player.

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                        • #42
                          One of them has to be moved. You can't platoon two point guards unless one of them is really young or one is really old.
                          your pal,
                          ebrian

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                          • #43
                            I also think this injury can be an eye opening experience for Lowry, he doesn't have to come back and be all him, for all we know he is taking note of the things that work for Jose and the team. I am going to take the optimistic path and hope that Lowry isn't a total idiot, and that he too is a student of the game and wants this to continue.

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                            • #44
                              Don't hate me because I'm an optimist.

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                              • #45
                                If this has been posted already somewhere my apologies

                                http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/tim_chisholm/?id=412025

                                CHISHOLM: POINT GUARD CONTROVERSY IN RAPTORS LAND?

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