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Thread: BC gets lambasted again.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Default BC gets lambasted again.

    http://basketball.realgm.com/blog/22...nder_Colangelo

    No more justifying BCs moves. They were ugly, inconceivable and outright senseless.

    You be the judge.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    BC has definitely done a bad job but a couple of things.

    1) Bosh is not a franchise cornerstone and should not be compared to LBJ or D12 - like, ever. Selecting Bargnani with Bosh already on roster was a mistake though - no question.

    2) Amir's contract is 5 years and $30M. $6M for an NBA big not on a rookie deal is not expensive - especially with said player entering prime of career.

    3) In the first round, outside of Drummond because that is an old debate and brings us back to #1 with JV already here, who has truly excelled to the point where you say, "Yeah, shoulda picked him instead." Ross is playing really well. Not comparing Ross to Harden but Harden was 6th man for years in OKC. Why can't Ross have a similar role? 3 and D off teh bench is extremely valuable in my opinion. Ross might actually be much more so thta is just a bonus.

    4) The idea of the Raptors not having a franchise player is a good one. Unfortunately the Raps haven't had a pick higher than #5. Irving and Davis are legit future stars and franchise players - who were also #1 PICKS in drafts with consensus #1's. Bargnani was no such thing and there was no consensus #1 in 2006. Since Bargnani the Raps have picked 9th, 13th, 5th, and 8th. Oh yeah, I for one am very glad we don't have DMC on the roster - no question of his talent but also no question of his immaturity 3 years in to the league. Since DMC is in his 3rd year and was picked 5th (again due to off court issues, not his talent), lets wait and see what JV is doing in year 3 to use that example.



    I definitely think BC has botched more than he has done right in Toronto. But this piece is nowhere close to the issues of why.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Great find. I agree with this 100%

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    I agree with what was said about Ross. He's a good kid, has obvious talent, but he's a SG. Matts point about bringing him off the bench as a 6th man is valid, but I highly doubt that is why he was drafted and at this point Ross isn't anywhere near as advance as Harden was coming into the league. I'm sure there is a really good reason for them picking him, but just doesn't make much sense right now. Same with Acy. Why draft yet another PF whose smaller than some SF when you could take a shot at someone with a high risk, high reward potential like Q. Miller?

    Dont' agree with what was said about drafting Bargnani. The one other guy who was in the running for being the #1 pick was Aldridge and his game is even more similar to Bosh than Bargnani.

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    Matt? Can you add " My name is sitnonDfence, and I approve this message" to your signature? It would save me a lot of typing.

    Thanks

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    YEah, I read this article earlier. Pretty good analysis. The Amir contract is definitely not a bad one though. Although I do agree to some extent that we probably didn't need to jump out and sign him on the first day of free agency. BC has definitely failed over and over again trying to make the right choices in building a team. Even if Bosh wasn't a franchise player, he really screwed trying to build any kind of team with him. Obviously there are lots of what ifs, but the writer is 100% correct about the Bargs pick creating a problem because there was no way he and Bosh would never really fit together.

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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    http://basketball.realgm.com/blog/22...nder_Colangelo

    No more justifying BCs moves. They were ugly, inconceivable and outright senseless.

    You be the judge.
    Good Article.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I agree with what was said about Ross. He's a good kid, has obvious talent, but he's a SG. Matts point about bringing him off the bench as a 6th man is valid, but I highly doubt that is why he was drafted and at this point Ross isn't anywhere near as advance as Harden was coming into the league. I'm sure there is a really good reason for them picking him, but just doesn't make much sense right now. Same with Acy. Why draft yet another PF whose smaller than some SF when you could take a shot at someone with a high risk, high reward potential like Q. Miller?

    Dont' agree with what was said about drafting Bargnani. The one other guy who was in the running for being the #1 pick was Aldridge and his game is even more similar to Bosh than Bargnani.
    I think picking Ross made a lot of sense. Who was picked after Ross in the first round that is having a standout year? Drummond, maybe, but that then what about ED and JV?

    Picking Ross and signing Fields, now that made little sense.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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    i dont think its about what he's done for the Raptors.
    it's about what he didn't do that he could have done!!

    Fine, he wanted to draft Ross- why not trade down collect an asset and then draft ROSS!!

    Harden was available! you have DD waiting for an extension and you have assets like Ross, DD and heck you have calderon's expiring contract. why didn't you swing a deal that would have brought a star home!

    you seen Bragnani for 6 years and you see him play big for the first 13 games last year- you are such a genius of a GM couldn't you have sold bargs high?

    lets not kid ourselves/ the entire nation knew bosh wasnt commin back! you are the GM you didn't know that?

    these are the things he effed up on and hence he really needs to go even if he makes the playoff this year cuz we shuda could woulda made the playoffs earlier than this.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie panagnos's Avatar
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    I personally do not like all the moves that Colangelo has made while with the Raptors. I think most of the moves he made were the only one's he had avaialble. In terms of ovepaying players again he has done what the market dictated.

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    Quote ball4life wrote: View Post
    i dont think its about what he's done for the Raptors.
    it's about what he didn't do that he could have done!!

    Fine, he wanted to draft Ross- why not trade down collect an asset and then draft ROSS!!

    Harden was available! you have DD waiting for an extension and you have assets like Ross, DD and heck you have calderon's expiring contract. why didn't you swing a deal that would have brought a star home!

    you seen Bragnani for 6 years and you see him play big for the first 13 games last year- you are such a genius of a GM couldn't you have sold bargs high?

    lets not kid ourselves/ the entire nation knew bosh wasnt commin back! you are the GM you didn't know that?

    these are the things he effed up on and hence he really needs to go even if he makes the playoff this year cuz we shuda could woulda made the playoffs earlier than this.
    That was BC's biggest mistake....rolling the dice on Bosh....he should have done what OKC did with Harden....these moves are what separate the men from the boys.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    ...I definitely think BC has botched more than he has done right in Toronto. But this piece is nowhere close to the issues of why.
    Might as well call me flag. Whichever way the wind blows is where I go. I thought the piece nailed it till I saw your comments Matt. You have a much more analytical mind than I do, that's certain.

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    Raptors Republic Starter knickz's Avatar
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    glad i'm not the only one not happy with the ross pick. once g state picked barnes that pick should have been moved. i like ross but you don't draft some projected to go 17th at 8. draft workouts are different from playing in the nba
    "the raptors were my fav team growing up"-kevin durant

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote knickz wrote: View Post
    glad i'm not the only one not happy with the ross pick. once g state picked barnes that pick should have been moved. i like ross but you don't draft some projected to go 17th at 8. draft workouts are different from playing in the nba
    What deals were there?

    Who is to say Ross would have been available later?

    For all those projections, Robinson was projected to go #2 yet fell to #5 and what he has done this year makes it seem like he should have fell farther.

    Projections mean dick squat and just as there is hype around certain NBA teams there is also hype around certain conferences and universities/colleges. Ross did not come from a hyped conference or school.

    There were rumours that Houston wanted Ross themselves if I recall correct.

    But again, who selected in the first round after Ross would have been a better pick outside Drummond? (who is still debatable I might add)
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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    Raptors Republic Rookie JalenRose5's Avatar
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    Great Article, agree with most of it.

    With regards to the Terrance Ross draft, I was definitely not a fan at first, but more and more he is starting to grow on me. He has a nice release on his shot, he can jump out the building, he's not scared to drive and he moves his feet on defense. Still suspect with his dribbling and decision making but that will go away with game experience. People forget that the 2 and 3 positions are very similar and require athletic guys that are around 6'5 - 6'9 (Historically) DeRozan is 6'7 and gains 5 pounds of muscle each year. Terrence Ross is 6'6 and has only up to go. the two of them can definitely play on the court together and can become a very deadly combination if Ross can consistently hit his jumper and Demar continues to Drive.

    It's unfortunate that Bryan Colangelo will forever be linked to Andrea Bargnani.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    What deals were there?

    Who is to say Ross would have been available later?

    For all those projections, Robinson was projected to go #2 yet fell to #5 and what he has done this year makes it seem like he should have fell farther.

    Projections mean dick squat and just as there is hype around certain NBA teams there is also hype around certain conferences and universities/colleges. Ross did not come from a hyped conference or school.

    There were rumours that Houston wanted Ross themselves if I recall correct.

    But again, who selected in the first round after Ross would have been a better pick outside Drummond? (who is still debatable I might add)
    Let's not forget that marvelous Cleveland pick at #4. What was that guy's name again? You know, that one guy with the face that was drafted 2 spots ahead of Lillard but couldn't even start on his collegiate team? Great pick, great pick.

    Thanks Chad Ford!

    ~Golden state, Portland

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    Quote JalenRose5 wrote: View Post
    Great Article, agree with most of it.

    With regards to the Terrance Ross draft, I was definitely not a fan at first, but more and more he is starting to grow on me. He has a nice release on his shot, he can jump out the building, he's not scared to drive and he moves his feet on defense. Still suspect with his dribbling and decision making but that will go away with game experience. People forget that the 2 and 3 positions are very similar and require athletic guys that are around 6'5 - 6'9 (Historically) DeRozan is 6'7 and gains 5 pounds of muscle each year. Terrence Ross is 6'6 and has only up to go. the two of them can definitely play on the court together and can become a very deadly combination if Ross can consistently hit his jumper and Demar continues to Drive.

    It's unfortunate that Bryan Colangelo will forever be linked to Andrea Bargnani.
    Now that's what I'm talking about. Sense.
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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I think picking Ross made a lot of sense. Who was picked after Ross in the first round that is having a standout year? Drummond, maybe, but that then what about ED and JV?

    Picking Ross and signing Fields, now that made little sense.
    Please expand on why you think it makes a lot of sense. The following are the questions I have which I currently have no answers for with regards to drafting Ross:
    Where does he fit on the Roster other than coming off the bench?
    Was using a mid range lottery pick in a deep draft to duplicate and existing strength the right move?
    If he is to assume the role of a 6th man, how sure is BC that he will thrive in that role? (Not everyone is a Harden or Crawford)
    Could they have flipped the draft pick to Houston for Lowry and preserved their 2013 pick?

    Don't get me wrong, Ross is a good kid and he has some obvious talent, but he's a SG and not SF. Unless BC was sure that either one of Ross or DeRozan could play SF then why this move? Why not have tried to trade out of the draft all together? Perhaps Detroit would have dealt their 2013 pick to have both Drummond and whomever else was available. There were options out there. I'm not saying BC did the wrong thing, but if there was a reason it's not clear to me.

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    "The most recent example of the lack of direction that plagues the Raptors can be seen in the decision to draft Terrence Ross with the eight pick in the 2012 Draft. Although many were confused, analysts made sense of the decision by pointing to the slow development of DeMar DeRozan who was in the last year of his rookie deal. The idea then was if DeRozan didnít take a huge leap forward this year, the Raptors wouldnít re-sign him and would have Ross as his replacement. This explanation was popular until the Raptors decided to give DeRozan a four-year extension. By committing to DeRozan for the foreseeable future, the Raptors essentially wasted a lottery pick on Ross, who by virtue of playing the same position as DeRozan, will be a reserve at best. The Raptors cannot afford to keep wasting lottery picks, as they may be the only non-playoff team that consistently uses the draft to find role players rather than potential foundational pieces."

    I agree with everything except this....this was stupid

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Please expand on why you think it makes a lot of sense. The following are the questions I have which I currently have no answers for with regards to drafting Ross:
    Where does he fit on the Roster other than coming off the bench?
    Was using a mid range lottery pick in a deep draft to duplicate and existing strength the right move?
    If he is to assume the role of a 6th man, how sure is BC that he will thrive in that role? (Not everyone is a Harden or Crawford)
    Could they have flipped the draft pick to Houston for Lowry and preserved their 2013 pick?

    Don't get me wrong, Ross is a good kid and he has some obvious talent, but he's a SG and not SF. Unless BC was sure that either one of Ross or DeRozan could play SF then why this move? Why not have tried to trade out of the draft all together? Perhaps Detroit would have dealt their 2013 pick to have both Drummond and whomever else was available. There were options out there. I'm not saying BC did the wrong thing, but if there was a reason it's not clear to me.

    All the same questions you have for Ross are equally applicable to Drummond and looking at the remaining talent pool who in the first round was a better selection than Ross? Isn't it possible the media and bloggers making projections were wrong?

    Ross might not be able to play SF but DeRozan possibly can. Also in the new age of small ball, no reason why TR and DD can't play at the same time - which they have shown capable of thus far in my opinion. I also don't think TR and DD are a duplicate of each other than height to be honest. Each players weaknesses are complimented by the others strengths. Ross is a very good defender and his shooting stroke/mechanics suggest his current percentages are not a true representation of his ability.

    Considering most draft picks are out of the league in 4 years, I don't see an issue with drafting Ross and having him come off the bench if that was the intention. 3&D off the bench is a valuable commodity. A team also needs more than a starting 5. 3-4 solid players on the bench are always needed.

    Considering 2013 is shaping up to be a very weak draft and the pick has protections, I see no issue with the trade as is.

    The season is far from over. Raps are currently sitting tied for 5th worst. If they end up finishing the year as many, myself included, expected this season to go from the start, then trading the 2013 pick instead of 2012 will likely turn out to be a very good idea. Also, there is still an opportunity for the Raps to pick up a 1st round pick via trade for 2013.

    Please don't take this as support for Colangelo. I'm past that. However, the way things were done with the pick were good by me. My assumption here is that the Raps finish the year as they are currently playing and end up with the 10/11/12 pick being sent to OKC. I believe both Ross and Lowry are better assets than what the 10-12 pick will return this year.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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