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Thread: Colangelo: Bargnani misunderstood

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic All-Star Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    The problem is that Bargnani is consistently inconsistent. If he plays well, does that guarantee that he will continue to play well? 7 years have proven (to me anyway) that he will not be able to keep it up.

    Same as you, that was my assumption, and why I talked about the possibility of a trade if he shows something. As I mention in another thread I am conflicted about Bargs...but I recognize the tendency to overvalue what you have. If he starts playing well, it is silly to expect it to continue given the history. So take advantage of someone else's fantasy of a consistently strongly motivated Bargnani, and trade him.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    That sample size talk is absolutely ludicrous. Even as we win games I continue to support the firing of this guy. He's clueless.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Starter Fully's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    That sample size talk is absolutely ludicrous. Even as we win games I continue to support the firing of this guy. He's clueless.
    Ding ding.

    If there's any downside to the team's recent surge, it's that the heat has started to come off of Colangelo. Consider me still in the camp that thinks giving BC another extension in Toronto would be insane. In the meantime, I no longer want to hear the constant stream of spin from him where he thinks he's the smartest guy in the room.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Starter saints91's Avatar
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    I'm all for trading Bargs, but we need to get value back. He does have value to this team. I think he would thrive coming in as a sixth man subbing Ed and Jonas. He has to buy into Casey's system though. The days of him parking his ass on the three point line is over. Either he plays like a PF/C or he is out the door. It's nice that we now have other options, and we can simply say "sit your ass down".

    The other key is not take away minutes from Ed or Jonas. They should still get starters minutes.

    Basically I would like to see if this has lit a fire under Bargs ass and if he would actually make us better in that role.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    What if Bargs comes back, buys in, and plays out of his mind the rest of the year? Will people still want him moved?
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
    -Scudworth

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    What if Bargs comes back, buys in, and plays out of his mind the rest of the year? Will people still want him moved?
    It is probably selfish on my part but yes. We've seen this act before. I know in the back of my mind I'll always be questioning and wondering when will he become disinterested again. Plus, I think there has been too much favouritism displayed to him by management and coaches. The comments from DC at the start of the year about no one having a guaranteed starting spot but Bargnani and the numerous referrals to he is our main guy/come hell or high water/etc. make me wake up at night with cold sweats.

    I don't wish anything ill on Bargnani and I certainly don't know him as a person. But his time as a Raptor is up in my opinion. It is in his best interests and the franchise's best interests. I think both will have more success a part than they will together.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Starter saints91's Avatar
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    Sadly I can't really see any team that would benefit from trading for him.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    What if Bargs comes back, buys in, and plays out of his mind the rest of the year? Will people still want him moved?
    Buys into meaning taking less shots and defending and grabbing 3 more rebounds (total 8) per game. It's just insane to think that's possible after 7 years. In short, NO.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Starter Fully's Avatar
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    Quote saints91 wrote: View Post
    Sadly I can't really see any team that would benefit from trading for him.
    I'm arriving at the same place. Bargnani's a really hard player to move considering the money and term left on his deal, his current injury status, and the overall beatdown his reputation has took in various forms the past three months. Just about every NBA franchise has an analytics department of some kind by now, and even if they don't, the National Post has been pumping out articles that break down just how much better the Raptors are without Bargnani on the floor. I feel like any team that is willing to give up something of even remote value for Bargnani hasn't been paying attention at all.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic All-Star hateslosing's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    It is probably selfish on my part but yes. We've seen this act before. I know in the back of my mind I'll always be questioning and wondering when will he become disinterested again. Plus, I think there has been too much favouritism displayed to him by management and coaches. The comments from DC at the start of the year about no one having a guaranteed starting spot but Bargnani and the numerous referrals to he is our main guy/come hell or high water/etc. make me wake up at night with cold sweats.

    I don't wish anything ill on Bargnani and I certainly don't know him as a person. But his time as a Raptor is up in my opinion. It is in his best interests and the franchise's best interests. I think both will have more success a part than they will together.
    I don't disagree with you, he has overstayed his welcome and I'd like to see him gone regardless, but if he comes back playing defense and passing instead of forcing up shots, he could end up being our best player. If he comes back and we keep winning with him playing a big role, I think he will be kept and probably start by the end of the year.

    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    Buys into meaning taking less shots and defending and grabbing 3 more rebounds (total 8) per game. It's just insane to think that's possible after 7 years. In short, NO.
    I'm not sure if he'll ever grab more rebounds, but if comes in playing defense and sharing the ball that is plenty enough of an improvement, assuming he's also making shots. I actually think moving to a more team oriented approach should be natural for him, it's more like how he plays in Europe.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
    -Scudworth

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    I don't think it's a selfish way of thinking. Bargnani should have been traded years ago and any delay to it is a delay for the team from becoming serious players in the NBA. His value is low, but that's BC's fault for not trading him when the iron was hot.

    He simply is not a type of player that any team should ever build around. Players that lack fundamental skills native to their position cannot be the cornerstone of a franchise. It just cannot work in this market.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    I don't think it's a selfish way of thinking. Bargnani should have been traded years ago and any delay to it is a delay for the team from becoming serious players in the NBA. His value is low, but that's BC's fault for not trading him when the iron was hot.

    He simply is not a type of player that any team should ever build around. Players that lack fundamental skills native to their position cannot be the cornerstone of a franchise. It just cannot work in this market.
    Absolutely. And to expand on that, whats to say his value will go up? Whats to prevent his value going even lower?

    There are no shortage of stocks that make all time lows, and people who don't sell because the price of the stock is too cheap find out the hard way that additional new lows can alway be found.

    Its time to cut the losses and move on.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    I agree completely.. to expand for people who think Bargnani's stock couldn't be any lower.

    It sure can. He could break his leg and be out for the year. He could demand a trade. Sam Mitchell could keep talking.. next thing you know, Triano pipes in with comments of his own. He could play decently and work his way back into the rotation, he could stroke BC's ego, or dig him deeper into the world of unreality. Regardless of if he's scoring 12 points per game or 25 points per game, this team will not be a serious competitor in the NBA as long as Bargnani is the centerpiece.

    Then someone will say "B-b-b-but hold on mister, what if he's not the centerpiece and still scoring 25 points per game?". The answer to that is simple: The ends will NEVER justify the means. 25 points per game and how much given up? How many shots taken to generate those points? How many second chance points given up because he didn't grab the board? I tell you now, Linas Kleiza does everything that Bargnani brings to the table for half the cost and he actually cares. The fact that everyone including myself has expressed the desire to use the Amnesty on Kleiza tells you how important Bargnani is to the future of this franchise. I'd trade Bargnani and STILL use the Amnesty Kleiza. That's how much badly we need a guy of that particular skillset (e.g.: not at all).

    Friends and colleagues, this is the time to trade Bargnani. The second he can clear a medical he should be out the door.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Rookie madeupid25's Avatar
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    I think at this point to deal Bargnani you are looking at taking back some other team's undesireable contract. The question is can you find a player who can give a better fit than you can get with AB, even if he stays and comes off the bench.

    These are the types of deal I see that might be available.

    AB / JC to NY for Amare...

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7bu437x

    (No thanks)

    AB / Kleiza / Lucas to Phoenix for Beasley, Wes Johnson, Gortat

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bav3vtw

    Colangelo could maybe rob the Suns blind (again), but if we are getting Gortat, they are probably going to want Ed Davis, or someone better than this deal offers

    AB / Amir to Sactown for Salmons, Jason Thompson, Aaron Brooks

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bkxyuh4

    meh...

    I would love to see Gortat in a Raps uniform, and swapping Beasley for Bargnani brings much of the same scoring potential, and lack of any other contribution.

    Based on these types of options, I would rather let Bargnani play off the bench, allow Calderon's deal to expire at the end of the season, try to move Kleiza for anything of value (or any expiring contract), continue with a centre rotation of Amir, JV, and Gray, and move forward with the current core of Lowry, Demar, ED, JV, Ross etc.

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    What if Bargs comes back, buys in, and plays out of his mind the rest of the year? Will people still want him moved?
    That is exactly what I want to happen. He plays well, boosts his value, we move him.

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