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Thread: Gay to debut for Raptors on Sunday [Post #727]

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic All-Star tucas's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Crazy, crazy, crazy. A winning streak for an otherwise talentless team and suddenly we don't want Rudy Gay anymore. This is where comments like "holy crap, we could have had Kobe for Vince!" are born.
    It's not the winning streak it's the development of the team. Derozan is 22 showing his best season yet and could potentially be an all star. Is he a Rudy gay talent? No. But Rudy gay is 4 years older. In 4 years will demar be better than Rudy gay is now? I would believe so. With Ross it's that the way he's been playing, you really don't want to trade one of the guys who's been playing the best basketball on your team. He's 21(?) and compliments demar so well. I could very well see him be a 6th man of the year candidate in the future and the way the raps are playing right now with him I wouldn't wanna give him up. Plus I feel Gay wouldn't compliment derozan the same way Ross does. Not saying I don't want Rudy gay. I just don't want to blow up our core wing players to get him. I'm pretty sure anyone can agree if the raps don't have to give up demar Ross or JV go for Rudy gay. But if they do, is he really worth it?
    We could end up being better without him in a few years if we don't blow up our core. Pass on the accelerated rebuild. Only way I want him now is if we give up either of the pg's and Bargnani +pieces.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    Imagine if we could get Gay w/out giving up the 3 players that i mentioned above. We could have a closing lineup of:

    JV/Amir
    Gay
    DeRozan
    Ross
    Calderon/Lowry

    Sick!
    Well Jose would be on Utah, and we'd have Watson/Lowry/Lucas as our PGs. Would still make a great lineup though.

    Can Gay play PF?

    If we could get Gay and Millsap, now that would be awesome.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    I have no problem with a Calderon and DeRozan for Gay deal:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7d2hht9

    Fields can slide into the SG role with TR backing him up. This is perhaps the only way I can swallow Bargs staying put (only because I don't think he's easy to trade). Gay is an assassin and I can see Memphis going for this deal because of the money and the fact that Calderon (which they can flip) is an expiring contract. I'm into this personally (my opinions of course).

    PS> This is also the type of trade BC would pull to save his job (I know it's a bad thing).
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  4. #24
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Another interesting note is Lowry and Gay are still tight, I believe. Makes sense with the age, same team years ago, and relative proximity of home towns (Philly and Baltimore).
    Funny you mention this as I was not aware they were friends before, however, since I was at the game today I noticed something. Not sure if any of you actually go to the games that often, but usuually they do a players "top 5" something or other. tonights was Lowrys top 5 favourite people he follows on twitter. Number 2 was Rudy Gay.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    don't know what colangelo is going to do now that the consensus is rudy gay is no longer the one player we wish we could have gotten. hope he is reading the board so he knows before he makes the trade.

    if gay were a real option i would be all over that in an instant. scoring/d/rebounds and assists from the 3
    http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3005/rudy-gay
    pretty good off year.

    be our second best all around player immediately. depending on what is needed to send out***please let it only be cash*** because cleveland is landing him if memphis wants assets. we can't compete with their draft picks and hiesley seems like the kind of guy who would love some first round cheap talent.
    For The Win

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    Raptors Republic All-Star charlesnba23's Avatar
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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    I'm a huge Derozan homer, and his work ethic, and love for the game has proven, he's a keeper in this league. But, Rudy Gay is so talented, and only going to get better with time, and experience.

    Derozan + Calderon + 2nd Round Picks for Gay? Maybe, but doesn't Derozan's contract kick in after this season?

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Just looking through Gay's career stats. If he can return to 2010-11 form (pre-shoulder injury), then sign me up for any trade that would include DeRozan.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Still yes to Rudy Gay.

    I think a Calderon/Bargnani trade would be great, but if Memphis asks for Demar, i'll be fine with it.

    Gay still embodies what the Raps have been lacking ever since VC left, scoring and clutch play. Imagine if they had Gay on those 5-6 close games that they lost? They probably wouldve won 4 or maybe even all of those games with Gay taking the last shot.

    The reason why i'd let Demar go is because of the emergence of Ross. Ross pretty much resembles Demar's first years as Raptor, difference is, Ross has a 3 point shot. And so does Gay. Three point shooting will open the floor for Lowry to penetrate and the bigs to work inside. Imagine Lowry running the break with Ross and Gay on each side. Yikes.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    It is amazing what you'll find on a Google search of "toronto raptors trade Rudy Gay":

    4E Sports Staff

    Toronto, ON, Canada (4E Sports) – The Toronto Raptors are reportedly trying to hammer out a deal that would help them land Memphis Grizzlies star forward Rudy Gay, a league source disclosed Thursday.

    The Raptors, who are looking for some upgrades at the small forward position, could like come up with a package surrounding Jose Calderon for the versatile swingman.

    According to the source, the deal may need other assets other than Calderon to make the deal materialize.

    The Raptors are coming off a 105-96 loss at the hands of DeMarcus Cousins and the Sacramento Kings.

    Cousins chalked up 31 points and 20 rebounds while John Salmons added 20 points to hand the Raptors only their second loss in 10 games.
    Article © AHN – All Rights Reserved

    http://gantdaily.com/2013/01/05/rapt...ith-grizzlies/
    I don't know anything about GantDaily.com. Not sure if the league source is from Zach Lowe's Grantland piece from Friday as this was published at 5:16am on Saturday morning. This is on the site's national sports page at the bottom between "Mannny Pacquiao-Juan Manuel Marquez V eyed for September" and "Report: Cycling great Lance Armstrong to publicly admit doping."

    If the trade did not include Ross, I think I'd be fine.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    It is amazing what you'll find on a Google search of "toronto raptors trade Rudy Gay":



    I don't know anything about GantDaily.com. Not sure if the league source is from Zach Lowe's Grantland piece from Friday as this was published at 5:16am on Saturday morning. This is on the site's national sports page at the bottom between "Mannny Pacquiao-Juan Manuel Marquez V eyed for September" and "Report: Cycling great Lance Armstrong to publicly admit doping."

    If the trade did not include Ross, I think I'd be fine.
    That article seems sketchy.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    That article seems sketchy.
    It does..... but that won't kill my Saturday night fun with the ESPN trade machine..... and here goes:

    The always popular 4-team trade:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bedzxxr

    Toronto: Gay, Burks, Foye
    Memphis: Udrih, Harris, Dunleavy, GSW 1st rd pick via Utah, 2nd rd pick from Toronto
    Utah: Calderon, Kleiza
    Milwaukee: Marvin Williams, DeRozan, Selby

    Why?

    Toronto: Gay starting SF. Ross starting SG. Fields 6th man. Burks scoring slasher off bench. Ilyasova stretch 4 who Casey seems to desire and Toronto is reportedly interested in via trade and was interested in last summer as FA.

    Memphis: Udrih back up PG (Bayless is sucking majorly in Memphis this year). Dunleavy starting SF floor spacer (42% 3pt) with visions of 2 year ago playoff run minus Gay. Harris SF of future. Picks. $5M in salary cap space taken off and they are no longer tax payer.

    Utah: Starting PG acquired while keeping most valuable trade assets in Millsap and Jefferson. Trade one useless combo forward for another but save $3M doing so. Also free up 2 roster spaces should they trade Jefferson's big contract.

    Milwaukee: Build their back court of the future with hometown reunion of Jennings and DeRozan. Anderson makes the numbers work. Williams is a player option of $7.5M next season and becomes their SF. Foye is backup PG to replace Udrih. Selby is a throw in for roster space. Milwaukee still has Ellis (and Sammy D's expiring contract) to pursue other trades or if Ellis opts out, he (and Sammy D) becomes cap space.

    Reportedly Milwaukee wants to move Ilyasova. Raps trade Bargnani in a package to get Gasol to Minnesota and receive Derrick Williams, Raps could send him to Milwaukee for Ilyasova. That swap would factor in to the above as well because assuming it was all done at same time it might be reported as one big trade but it would technically be 2 separate trades.

    When the dust settles, Raps lineup:

    PG: Lowry, Foye, Lucas
    SG: Ross, Burks, Anderson
    SF: Gay, Fields
    PF: Davis, Ilyasova, Acy
    C: JV, Amir, Gray

    Bigs are set.
    Wings are thin but Ilyasova could play some 3.
    PG is thin.

    Conspicuous by his absence in all of this is #tradeBargnani who I am going to assume has been moved for pieces (backup PG and backup wing).


    **for the record, not suggesting this plausible or possible, just having fun on a Saturday night with my wife out and kids in bed**

    EDIT: Dammit. I hate it when you take off the blinders and realize that if the Bucks could essentially get Gay for all of their assets, well, why wouldn't they take Gay instead of helping Toronto land him. If the Bucks took him on they'd have 11 players under contract for next season with a payroll of about $67.9M assuming Jennings was resigned for $10M, Ilyasova was kept, and Ellis was not traded while exercising his option. I guess it would all depend on how much money Milwaukee wanted to spend and if they thought they could compete with that team.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=9wenvv7

    EDIT 2: But wait, there is more. Lets assume Bargnani is dealt and Derrick Williams comes back in any package i.e. Raps facilitate a Gasol to Minny deal. Again, don't worry about the players, just look at salary numbers: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=acbm36j Raps would also be able to trade Williams immediately after obtaining as it would be (hypothetically, of course) a 1-for-1 trade to get Ilyasova. Raps would also keep Anderson. So if you were Milwaukee, would you rather go ahead with a Jennings-DeRozan-Williams trio or a Jennings-Ellis-Gay trio? Ellis could leave this summer or next summer as an UFA. Jennings-DD-Williams would be about $25M over the next 2 years while Jennings-Ellis-Gay would be about $39M.... and Williams could very well be a bust.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Sat Jan 5th, 2013 at 10:06 PM.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic All-Star tucas's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    It does..... but that won't kill my Saturday night fun with the ESPN trade machine..... and here goes:

    The always popular 4-team trade:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=a8tqnsn

    Toronto: Gay, Burks
    Memphis: Udrih, Harris, Dunleavy, GSW 1st rd pick via Utah, 2nd rd pick from Toronto
    Utah: Calderon, Kleiza
    Milwaukee: Marvin Williams, Foye, Selby

    And to just make it all the more plausible, a separate trade that would be needed to be done under NBA rules but would be reported as all one big trade (ignore the players on Milwakee's side and focus on $7.9M salary which is what Ilyasova makes):

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aet4xga

    Milwakee: DeRozan, Anderson
    Toronto: Ilyasova

    Why?

    Toronto: Gay starting SF. Ross starting SG. Fields 6th man. Burks scoring slasher off bench. Ilyasova stretch 4 who Casey seems to desire and Toronto is reportedly interested in via trade and was interested in last summer as FA.

    Memphis: Udrih back up PG (Bayless is sucking majorly in Memphis this year). Dunleavy starting SF floor spacer (42% 3pt) with visions of 2 year ago playoff run minus Gay. Harris SF of future. Picks. $5M in salary cap space taken off and they are no longer tax payer.

    Utah: Starting PG acquired while keeping most valuable trade assets in Millsap and Jefferson. Trade one useless combo forward for another but save $3M doing so. Also free up 2 roster spaces should they trade Jefferson's big contract.

    Milwaukee: Build their back court of the future with hometown reunion of Jennings and DeRozan. Anderson makes the numbers work. Williams is a player option of $7.5M next season and becomes their SF. Foye is backup PG to replace Udrih. Selby is a throw in for roster space. Milwaukee still has Ellis (and Sammy D's expiring contract) to pursue other trades or if Ellis opts out, he (and Sammy D) becomes cap space.


    When the dust settles, Raps lineup:

    PG: Lowry, Lucas
    SG: Ross, Burks
    SF: Gay, Fields
    PF: Davis, Ilyasova, Acy
    C: JV, Amir, Gray

    Bigs are set.
    Wings are thin but Ilyasova could play some 3.
    PG is thin.

    Conspicuous by his absence in all of this is #tradeBargnani who I am going to assume has been moved for pieces (backup PG and backup wing).


    **for the record, not suggesting this plausible or possible, just having fun on a Saturday night with my wife out and kids in bed**

    EDIT: Dammit. I hate it when you take off the blinders and realize that if the Bucks could essentially get Gay for all of their assets, well, why wouldn't they take Gay instead of helping Toronto land him. If the Bucks took him on they'd have 11 players under contract for next season with a payroll of about $67.9M assuming Jennings was resigned for $10M, Ilyasova was kept, and Ellis was not traded while exercising his option. I guess it would all depend on how much money Milwaukee wanted to spend and if they thought they could compete with that team.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=9wenvv7

    EDIT 2: But wait, there is more. Lets assume Bargnani is dealt and Derrick Williams comes back in any package i.e. Raps facilitate a Gasol to Minny deal. Again, don't worry about the players, just look at salary numbers: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=acbm36j Raps would also be able to trade Williams immediately after obtaining as it would be (hypothetically, of course) a 1-for-1 trade to get Ilyasova. Raps would also keep Anderson. So if you were Milwaukee, would you rather go ahead with a Jennings-DeRozan-Williams trio or a Jennings-Ellis-Gay trio? Ellis could leave this summer or next summer as an UFA. Jennings-DD-Williams would be about $25M over the next 2 years while Jennings-Ellis-Gay would be about $39M.... and Williams could very well be a bust.
    Lol as long as we're posting Rudy gay trades
    [url]http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bjzfmff[\url]
    Toronto receives
    Rudy gay
    Josh selby

    Phoenix receives
    Andrea Bargnani
    Sacramento 2014 2nd round pick via Toronto
    Toronto 2013 2nd round pick

    Memphis receives
    Jose Calderon
    Michael Beasley
    Alan Anderson
    Minnesota 1st round pick via Phoenix

    Why Toronto?
    Rudy gay. That is all.

    Why Phoenix?
    Beasley isn't the player he was expected to be when they signed him, so they drop his massive contract. They get Bargnani to back up scola and start when scola retires or leaves as a free agent.

    Why Memphis?
    Key here is cap space. They're deep into the tax and Memphis isn't exactly a big market. They get 10 million dollars off the books from Calderon at the end of the season and get rid of Rudy gays large contract. Hopefully with a change of scenery michael Beasley can perform better or not. First rounder evens it out. Anderson has been playing great and has shown he can 100% be a serviceable backup

    Toronto lineup
    Kyle Lowry/John Lucas/Josh Selby
    Demar Derozan/Terrence Ross
    Rudy Gay/Landry Fields/Mickael Pietrus
    Ed Davis/Quincy Acy
    Jonas Valanciunas/Amir Johnson/Aaron Gray

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic All-Star tucas's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post

    EDIT: Dammit. I hate it when you take off the blinders and realize that if the Bucks could essentially get Gay for all of their assets, well, why wouldn't they take Gay instead of helping Toronto land him. If the Bucks took him on they'd have 11 players under contract for next season with a payroll of about $67.9M assuming Jennings was resigned for $10M, Ilyasova was kept, and Ellis was not traded while exercising his option. I guess it would all depend on how much money Milwaukee wanted to spend and if they thought they could compete with that team.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=9wenvv7

    EDIT 2: But wait, there is more. Lets assume Bargnani is dealt and Derrick Williams comes back in any package i.e. Raps facilitate a Gasol to Minny deal. Again, don't worry about the players, just look at salary numbers: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=acbm36j Raps would also be able to trade Williams immediately after obtaining as it would be (hypothetically, of course) a 1-for-1 trade to get Ilyasova. Raps would also keep Anderson. So if you were Milwaukee, would you rather go ahead with a Jennings-DeRozan-Williams trio or a Jennings-Ellis-Gay trio? Ellis could leave this summer or next summer as an UFA. Jennings-DD-Williams would be about $25M over the next 2 years while Jennings-Ellis-Gay would be about $39M.... and Williams could very well be a bust.
    Shhhh stop giving Milwaukee ideas

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote tucas wrote: View Post
    Lol as long as we're posting Rudy gay trades
    [url]http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bjzfmff[\url]
    Toronto receives
    Rudy gay
    Josh selby

    Phoenix receives
    Andrea Bargnani
    Sacramento 2014 2nd round pick via Toronto
    Toronto 2013 2nd round pick

    Memphis receives
    Jose Calderon
    Michael Beasley
    Alan Anderson
    Minnesota 1st round pick via Phoenix

    Why Toronto?
    Rudy gay. That is all.

    Why Phoenix?
    Beasley isn't the player he was expected to be when they signed him, so they drop his massive contract. They get Bargnani to back up scola and start when scola retires or leaves as a free agent.

    Why Memphis?
    Key here is cap space. They're deep into the tax and Memphis isn't exactly a big market. They get 10 million dollars off the books from Calderon at the end of the season and get rid of Rudy gays large contract. Hopefully with a change of scenery michael Beasley can perform better or not. First rounder evens it out. Anderson has been playing great and has shown he can 100% be a serviceable backup

    Toronto lineup
    Kyle Lowry/John Lucas/Josh Selby
    Demar Derozan/Terrence Ross
    Rudy Gay/Landry Fields/Mickael Pietrus
    Ed Davis/Quincy Acy
    Jonas Valanciunas/Amir Johnson/Aaron Gray
    Didn't solve the luxury tax issue for Memphis this year! lol
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    i really don't think the team will trade demar. i also wouldn't want them too. i understand the reasoning behind it but i would rather keep someone who has shown improvement/work ethic and love for the city. i think toronto needs a spokesman for other players. i think that a player suck as demar who came when we sucked and hopefully will be here as we continue to improve sends a message that we are real.

    if we send him out i think it only emphasizes that this team is a revolving door for players waiting to get to america. hopefully he isn't included. i would love gay but not at the cost of any of the young players. not for ed/demar/ross/val. anyone and anything else is ok for me. unfortunately we don't even know what draft we have to give up a pick so we can't include one.

    i have a question i hope someone can answer. i know we have to have a pick bi-annually, but does it have to be a raptors pick? if we trade/buy the 30th pick in the draft does that count as one of our picks in 2 seperate years?
    For The Win

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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    i really don't think the team will trade demar. i also wouldn't want them too. i understand the reasoning behind it but i would rather keep someone who has shown improvement/work ethic and love for the city. i think toronto needs a spokesman for other players. i think that a player suck as demar who came when we sucked and hopefully will be here as we continue to improve sends a message that we are real.

    if we send him out i think it only emphasizes that this team is a revolving door for players waiting to get to america. hopefully he isn't included. i would love gay but not at the cost of any of the young players. not for ed/demar/ross/val. anyone and anything else is ok for me. unfortunately we don't even know what draft we have to give up a pick so we can't include one.

    i have a question i hope someone can answer. i know we have to have a pick bi-annually, but does it have to be a raptors pick? if we trade/buy the 30th pick in the draft does that count as one of our picks in 2 seperate years?
    and you don't think obtaining Rudy Gay would get rid of the notion we can't get big name players?

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Oof get Burks, Gay and Foye while not trading Ross? So in.

    Sweet sweet Burksy

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote akashsingh wrote: View Post
    and you don't think obtaining Rudy Gay would get rid of the notion we can't get big name players?
    gay comes and plays for 3 or 4 years and leaves. not a guarentee but follows a pattern. i think acquiring gay is a good idea but not at the expense of a hard worker/younger/cheaper/signed longer and has let it be known he enjoys it here. i would rather reward demar then roll the dice gay stays after this contract or we trade our youth for a 3 year window before val becomes a restricted free agent and we are forced to max deal him.

    if gay comes in i dont want the young guys going out. that is why i think cleveland gets him with their picks because i doubt they want to give up their young guys as well.
    For The Win

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    +1. I'd like to keep the younger players, because they work hard, and seem like they want to be here.

    Gay, I don't know if he'd resign unless we're going to offer him max or start being a serious contender.

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