Gay to debut for Raptors on Sunday [Post #727]

[planetmars]

This morning I came up with the following Raptors/Gay trade:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ap3f96f

Toronto gets Gay and Gortat
Phoenix gets Bargnani and 2nd rounder (from Toronto)
Memphis gets Reddick, A Johnson, 2nd rounder (from Toronto)
Orlando gets Fields

For Toronto I got the idea from the Matt Moore piece on RR last week. He suggested a trade of Gortat for Bargnani and I think Gortat would be a really great big to have in the line up to help JV become a better player.

Memphis needs to shed salary (this way they save $4.3M thus getting them below luxury tax this year), and get a shooter which they need. If Reddick does not resign they save an additional $6M once his contract goes off the books.

Orlando does a lateral move by swapping Reddick for Fields. Fields is younger and can play SF which is perfect since Turk is a pile of poop. Orlando would not get cap relief if Reddick doesn't resign but they would not be a free agent destination anyway.

[Hugmenot]

Hey Matt,
as to why Cleveland may not be interested, it is probably because we have a wing (Waiters) whose skill set overlaps a lot with Gay's. Nowhere near the same level at this time, but the guy looks he could potentially be a minor star.

What Cleveland needs most is a wing defender who is also a very good jump shooter, especially from the three. It's basically why I was hoping they pursued Nicolas Batum much harder than they did.

The Cleveland boards (and I) are not that high on Gee. Very athletic but I can't see him being more than a 20-24 mpg player in a couple of years.

Btw, the Canadian boy is doing very well since he was unmasked. Most of his points are coming off hook shots (a few more from the right hand than left) and he's rebounding at a tremendous pace (these numbers will likely go down when Andy is back). Part of the improvement may be that Big Z has been practicing with him one on one to improve his play on offense.

[BasketballCrush]

Why would Orlando trade Reddick for Fields?

[tucas]

This morning I came up with the following Raptors/Gay trade:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ap3f96f

Toronto gets Gay and Gortat
Phoenix gets Bargnani and 2nd rounder (from Toronto)
Memphis gets Reddick, A Johnson, 2nd rounder (from Toronto)
Orlando gets Fields

For Toronto I got the idea from the Matt Moore piece on RR last week. He suggested a trade of Gortat for Bargnani and I think Gortat would be a really great big to have in the line up to help JV become a better player.

Memphis needs to shed salary (this way they save $4.3M thus getting them below luxury tax this year), and get a shooter which they need. If Reddick does not resign they save an additional $6M once his contract goes off the books.

Orlando does a lateral move by swapping Reddick for Fields. Fields is younger and can play SF which is perfect since Turk is a pile of poop. Orlando would not get cap relief if Reddick doesn't resign but they would not be a free agent destination anyway.

Ya this is really one sided for Toronto. Reddick is playing at an Allstar level, no way fields would be enough for Orlando. Gortat is worth a lot more than Bargnani and a second rounder, and gay is probably worth more than reddick and Amir.

[Matt52]

Hey Matt,
as to why Cleveland may not be interested, it is probably because we have a wing (Waiters) whose skill set overlaps a lot with Gay's. Nowhere near the same level at this time, but the guy looks he could potentially be a minor star.

What Cleveland needs most is a wing defender who is also a very good jump shooter, especially from the three. It's basically why I was hoping they pursued Nicolas Batum much harder than they did.

The Cleveland boards (and I) are not that high on Gee. Very athletic but I can't see him being more than a 20-24 mpg player in a couple of years.

Btw, the Canadian boy is doing very well since he was unmasked. Most of his points are coming off hook shots (a few more from the right hand than left) and he's rebounding at a tremendous pace (these numbers will likely go down when Andy is back). Part of the improvement may be that Big Z has been practicing with him one on one to improve his play on offense.

I always thought Gay is a pretty good defender.

Can't Gay and Waiters (SG & SF) play together?

[Hugmenot]

The problem with Gay is not his defense, but rather the spacing on the floor will be tight if he's paired with Waiters. Thompson has no outside game, and neither Andy nor Zeller can shoot beyond 16 feet. Defense will collapse on Kyrie again as they were doing before Miles was inserted in the starting lineup. Miles is nowhere near the talent of Waiters but we needed someone to space the floor that badly.

I am not fond of a DeRozan-Gay pairing either, especially if Bargnani and Calderon are shipped out. I believe spacing would be a real issue and that it would make it more difficult for Lowry to drive to the hoop.

[Matt52]

The problem with Gay is not his defense, but rather the spacing on the floor will be tight if he's paired with Waiters. Thompson has no outside game, and neither Andy nor Zeller can shoot beyond 16 feet. Defense will collapse on Kyrie again as they were doing before Miles was inserted in the starting lineup. Miles is nowhere near the talent of Waiters but we needed someone to space the floor that badly.

I am not fond of a DeRozan-Gay pairing either, especially if Bargnani and Calderon are shipped out. I believe spacing would be a real issue and that it would make it more difficult for Lowry to drive to the hoop.

I wonder if Gay will return to his pre shoulder injury form. He was at 39.8% 2 years ago. Is Waiters career ceiling going to be 32%? He is just turned 21. One thing Cleveland has going for them is Irving's shooting.


You know it really sounds like Cleveland could use Bargnani, lol.

[Hugmenot]

They could really use Bargnani if (1) he could play SF, or (2) was a better hep defender (he's fine one-on-one).

Help defense is even more important for the Cavaliers then for the Raptors because Kyrie cannot keep any point guard in front on him. That's an area we have been struggling mightily since Andy went down because Zeller is still very slow at recognizing rotations in addition to being a weak one-on-one defender against bulky players (he's not strong to hold his position),

[planetmars]

Why would Orlando trade Reddick for Fields?

To get an asset for Redick in case he doesn't resign with them in the offseason. He's a UFA.

Ya this is really one sided for Toronto. Reddick is playing at an Allstar level, no way fields would be enough for Orlando. Gortat is worth a lot more than Bargnani and a second rounder, and gay is probably worth more than reddick and Amir.

I'm not sure I would say Redick is playing like an all-star. 14ppg / 4apg are good stats but no where near all-star. Again my rational is that Redick is a free agent after this season. If he does not resign with them (which is possible) they lose him for nothing. Cap space is good but at this point they are from from being a desirable market for free agents. Fields is also 4 years younger and can play both SF and SG. Youth is a very good thing to have for a rebuilding team.

Bargnani for a 2nd rounder seems like garbage for a player like Gortat but Gortat is not happy in Phoenix and Bargnani is a stretch 4 that they would probably love to have - especially if Frye doesn't come back. BC has a good relationship with Phoenix as well obviously so if he could sell Bargnani to anyone it might be Phoenix.

Memphis's biggest need is cap space. Amir + Redick gives them an immediate $4M savings (thus getting them from under the tax this year) plus another $6M if Redick signs elsewhere in the summer. They are a contending team so would want veterans and a shooter. Redick is probably one of the best shooters in the league, and Amir gives them a solid PF/C backup - especially important if ZBo goes down.

Of course this is just my opinion.. who knows what Phoenix/Memphis would want and if Gortat/Gay are even available. Just throwing something out there.

[BasketballCrush]

I just don't see Fields's being worth that much, we outbid the next nearest bidder by a wide margin. If we need to move Fields we are the ones that must do the favour for someone else. I don't see too many people licking the lips on that contract. I am happy Fields play of late has been serviceable, but he still a long way away from justifying his contract.


I get it Orlando does us a favour, because they get scared about Redick, still see it as wishful thinking. As for Redick, I think his best option is to resign, can't see him gettting the love, minutes and time anywhere else. Orlando loves him, if they are not willing to put a little extra butter on the toast for their own player, I can't see another club doing it.

[ebrian]

It's not the winning streak it's the development of the team. Derozan is 22 showing his best season yet and could potentially be an all star. Is he a Rudy gay talent? No. But Rudy gay is 4 years older. In 4 years will demar be better than Rudy gay is now? I would believe so. With Ross it's that the way he's been playing, you really don't want to trade one of the guys who's been playing the best basketball on your team. He's 21(?) and compliments demar so well. I could very well see him be a 6th man of the year candidate in the future and the way the raps are playing right now with him I wouldn't wanna give him up. Plus I feel Gay wouldn't compliment derozan the same way Ross does. Not saying I don't want Rudy gay. I just don't want to blow up our core wing players to get him. I'm pretty sure anyone can agree if the raps don't have to give up demar Ross or JV go for Rudy gay. But if they do, is he really worth it?
We could end up being better without him in a few years if we don't blow up our core. Pass on the accelerated rebuild. Only way I want him now is if we give up either of the pg's and Bargnani +pieces.

I just think it's crazy when people are sitting here worried about "our core", when this team's core is pathetic at best. A few weeks ago we were debating whether to blow up the team and take BC's head off insisting this team has talent. Now we're talking about not trading for an extremely talented SF, probably the best this franchise has ever seen, because of the potential we see in some of the younger prospects we have. Do you really want to sit through 2-3 more years of losing just to see if Ross/DeRozan are as good as Rudy Gay?

[Nilanka]

If there's an opportunity to obtain Gay, Colangelo would be doing himself, the team, the ownership, and the fanbase a GREAT disservice by not seriously considering it.

Sometimes trading unproven youth for established players pays huge dividends (see Camby for Oakley, or Bender for Antonio Davis).

[tucas]

It's looking like Phoenix will get Rudy gay. The trade will send gay to Phoenix and Jared Dudley, cap filler and picks to the grizzlies. They also discussed deals with Toronto and golden state. It's not official but apparently both teams like the deal.

[ceez]

If the Grizz want capspace so bad, what about Jose? That'd be a nice chunk in the offseason.

[planetmars]

It's looking like Phoenix will get Rudy gay. The trade will send gay to Phoenix and Jared Dudley, cap filler and picks to the grizzlies. They also discussed deals with Toronto and golden state. It's not official but apparently both teams like the deal.

I don't recall seeing anything that mentioned Toronto specifically. Do you have a source on that?

Surprised that GSW would be interested since they just drafted Barnes.

Looks like Memphis is looking for a first rounder and Phoenix has multiple picks to offer. Toronto gets left out because it can't trade any of its first rounders until they fail to make the playoffs one time.

Oh well.. lost hope on Gay once the season started.

[ceez]

Not that I actually want Gay, it seems the four swings we have are doing pretty good as is. Ross is only going to get better and fields and AA have been solid. I don't think upgrading the 3 spot is as important as everyone thinks.

A big upfront that can get points in the paint on the other hand...

[Raptor_11]

Not that I actually want Gay, it seems the four swings we have are doing pretty good as is. Ross is only going to get better and fields and AA have been solid. I don't think upgrading the 3 spot is as important as everyone thinks.

A big upfront that can get points in the paint on the other hand...

+1Million

[Matt52]

Rudy Gay On the Trade Block

The rumors are true. The Memphis Grizzlies are willing to trade Rudy Gay, but only if the right deal comes along. They want to shed salary, but at the same time bring in players that can help Memphis make a deep playoff run. The Grizzlies want to be competitive in the Western Conference and the team won’t trade Gay just to get out of his contract, they want to use him to bolster their roster as well.

The Phoenix Suns, Golden State Warriors, Sacramento Kings and Boston Celtics are among the teams that have had conversations with the Grizzlies about Gay, according to league sources. The Houston Rockets and Toronto Raptors have shown interest in Gay in the past and could be potential trade partners as well.

Gay is owed $17.8 million and $19.3 million over the next two seasons and Memphis wants to avoid paying the luxury tax, which is why they’re looking at deals that would allow them to cut costs.

This isn’t the first time that Gay has heard his name in trade rumors. The Grizzlies have considered moving him in the past and Gay has made it clear that he’s open to a trade. In the past, Memphis wasn’t blown away with any of the discussions that they had with other teams and decided to keep Gay. We’ll see if the same thing happens this season as the February 21st trade deadline approaches.

Read more at http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-pm-ima...I1Z1lLE45ev.99

Things that become public rarely turn out to be true.... or that is my perception of the past.... especially if they don't occur in a day or two of being leaked.

My guess is Memphis is doing their due diligence and seeing what the offers are out there before making decisions. There really is no need to talk to Toronto because 1) they've done so in the past and 2) both sides are probably aware of what the other is offering/asking for.

[japetas]

Something quite fresh: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...g_For_Rudy_Gay
I would approve this trade except there are couple of issues:

1) No Bargnani included
2) We would have about one million wing players and only Bargnani at PF...

Actually I'm not Bargnani hater but If this rumor is right, then BC didn't get rid of his old habits to believe in AB

[Matt52]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/pos...rudy-gay-chase

Stein is notoriously full of poop when it comes to Toronto. Grain of salt.