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Thread: Gay to debut for Raptors on Sunday [Post #727]

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    If Demar really gets it after the 1st year of his second contract (2014-2015), then I'd say it's a good contract. I'm just not optimistic he'll get there.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  2. #342
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote BadDinosaur wrote: View Post
    At first my reaction (yesterday) was totally against this deal. I was in a rage. Now, that I had some time to actually think about, this deal starts to make a lot of sense. So hear me out:

    First of all forget fantasies like trading Jose + Bargs for Gay and similar stuff. Ain't going to happen. But we MUST trade Calderon, otherwise next season we'll still be the same team we are right now, but minus Calderon! Who wants that? And forget the free agency, nothing interesting in the FA this coming summer, at least not for us (as if we could attract free agents anyway). And our pick goes to OKC...

    We need a SF! The only SF with above average skill to be a FA this summer is Pierce, who'll likely be traded before the deadline next month, maybe over the next couple of days actually... But Pierce is of no interest for us - too old. The only other SF with above average talent level available for a trade is Gay. There is no other team, that will be willing to trade a borderline all-star SF for a package of Calderon and a Davis.

    UNDERSTAND the following: nobody is really going after Calderon, only his expiring deal (dumping salary)!! The league is crowded with seriously talented PG's and those teams that are interested in Calderon are not the teams that can offer us something in return that would interest us! No realistic trades anyway!

    So since we don't want to let Calderon's deal expire over the summer, we must use him in any way possible right NOW. The Gay deal is the ONLY deal available. Basically we are trading Ed Davis for Rudy Gay. In my eyes that is a good deal.

    To sum up:

    - Either we deal Calderon now or he walks in the summer and we get NOTHING in return!
    - No team will give you back a better PG in return for Calderon + Davis (or Jose + Bargnani and not even Jose + DeRozan). So our PG will be Lowry for the foreseeable future.
    - our biggest need is a good SF, but only Gay and Pierce are available. Forget about a good SF through free agency (Canada...)! This summer only Pierce will be available anyway.
    - Ed Davis is not going to be an all-star, more like a good bench big and we're basically trading him straight up for Gay (borderline all-star SF). The alternative is we keep Davis and lose Jose over the summer.
    - We are not bad enough to get a high pick over the next couple of years, so forget the Wiggins and similar dreams.

    What we can do:

    Get Gay for Calderon and Davis. Next, wait and see if Pau Gasol demands to be traded, attempt to offer Bargs + Kleiza (or Fields). If Gasol is not available, 2 plans of action can be followed: either before the trade deadline we can trade DeRozan for Millsap, maybe even Bargnani for Millsap if Jazz brass loses its mind for a day. Otherwise we wait till summer, amnesty Bargnani and attempt to sign Millsap through FA. If Jazz agreed to TRADE Millsap, the rest of the job would be easy for a GM. Lots of different things can be done after that...
    Not to offend you but have you been reading the boards lately?

    Its a good summary tho, of everything thats been pretty much discussed in recent days.

  3. #343
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    The crazy-ass trade that involves Gay and Toronto that I would consider doing. Assumption 1: Boston is blowing it up and therefore more willing to take Jose than Lowry, and also will look to trade Pierce if they have to deal someone. Assumption #2: Memphis doesn't want any big name player/contract back.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=a2hjvq2

    Why I would want it for Toronto? Instead of getting a guy who failed to live up to his potential, we get 2 guys who are clearly declining, but both champions who have been legit #1 options on playoff teams, and though maybe not cut out to carry that load, know what it takes and will easily give us a shot at the playoffs for a couple of years. We wouldn't give up any of our young key pieces, and would still get to see if Lowry can fit. All the big money comes off the books in 2014, so our long term flexibility is not compromised at all since we likely wouldn't be big players in free agency this year (trades are the most likely avenue for change I think).
    What about the other teams?
    LA gets younger, more athletic, and 2 guys who should both fit in well with D'Antoni. If Bargs can't thrive as the 4th or 5th option on a team like that, with Dwight Howard anchoring the D, well then he won't fit in anywhere. Money's probably the concern from LA's point of view, but I think they can manage to make trades if they need change. THey always seem to somehow.
    Memphis gets exactly what they want.....depth, outside shooting, and a reduction of their long-term salary commitments. They'd still have to commit some to Johnson and Lee, but I think both those guys can keep them competitive with their current core, and AA and Jamison would give them depth and shooting. Lee has length in his deal, but could provide good value as it's not too costly.
    Boston also gets what they want...again, assuming they give up on this season. Jose relieves some hefty money in the offseason. Gray and Hill give them a huge big, which they need, and an athletic big, which they also need. Fields is the tough pill to swallow, but the consolation is if they will suck with Rondo out(and he's out into next season), and they have no plan for PG next year, Fields won't hinder any tanking plans. I'm sure there might be other ways to make it work for them, but I think some cap relief and depth up front to ease KG's load might be priorities. The flip side of taking back Fields is they unload Lee (cheaper but longer), who may be unhappy playing with Rondo, apparently.

    It may seem crazy or unrealistic, but in this deal we would give up none of our young pieces. Not Ed, or JV, or Ross. And we'd still get to see what Lowry has to offer.

    Oh, and I forgot to add that next year, Pierce and Gasol could both easily be hugely attractive trade pieces again, with their championship experience and expiring contracts.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Wed Jan 30th, 2013 at 12:24 PM.

  4. #344
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    Not to offend you but have you been reading the boards lately?

    Its a good summary tho, of everything thats been pretty much discussed in recent days.
    I'm sorry, I do not really have the time to read everything, but I took some time to think this through on my own, so I just posted all that I had on my mind. If it serves as a summary of everything that already has been told, then great! Feels still useful

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote BadDinosaur wrote: View Post
    I'm sorry, I do not really have the time to read everything, but I took some time to think this through on my own, so I just posted all that I had on my mind. If it serves as a summary of everything that already has been told, then great! Feels still useful
    I wouldn't worry about it.

    Gary Payton has always been known to have a bit of a chip on his shoulder ;P
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I wouldn't worry about it.

    Gary Payton has always been known to have a bit of a chip on his shoulder ;P
    You need to address me as "The Glove" next time. hahahaha

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    You need to address me as "The Glove" next time. hahahaha
    My apologies, Mr. The Glove.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  8. #348
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote BadDinosaur wrote: View Post
    I'm sorry, I do not really have the time to read everything, but I took some time to think this through on my own, so I just posted all that I had on my mind. If it serves as a summary of everything that already has been told, then great! Feels still useful
    I didnt mean any disrespect BadDino.

    Very useful post indeed.

  9. #349
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    I didnt mean any disrespect BadDino.

    Very useful post indeed.
    No offense taken, don't worry

  10. #350
    Raptors Republic Starter japetas's Avatar
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    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bjfceu6 Outlaw could be changed by Brooks, Fredette or anyone from Sacramento except I.Thomas and Honeycutt to match the salaries
    (Sorry for poor English )

  11. #351
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    The crazy-ass trade that involves Gay and Toronto that I would consider doing. Assumption 1: Boston is blowing it up and therefore more willing to take Jose than Lowry, and also will look to trade Pierce if they have to deal someone. Assumption #2: Memphis doesn't want any big name player/contract back.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=a2hjvq2

    Why I would want it for Toronto? Instead of getting a guy who failed to live up to his potential, we get 2 guys who are clearly declining, but both champions who have been legit #1 options on playoff teams, and though maybe not cut out to carry that load, know what it takes and will easily give us a shot at the playoffs for a couple of years. We wouldn't give up any of our young key pieces, and would still get to see if Lowry can fit. All the big money comes off the books in 2014, so our long term flexibility is not compromised at all since we likely wouldn't be big players in free agency this year (trades are the most likely avenue for change I think).
    What about the other teams?
    LA gets younger, more athletic, and 2 guys who should both fit in well with D'Antoni. If Bargs can't thrive as the 4th or 5th option on a team like that, with Dwight Howard anchoring the D, well then he won't fit in anywhere. Money's probably the concern from LA's point of view, but I think they can manage to make trades if they need change. THey always seem to somehow.
    Memphis gets exactly what they want.....depth, outside shooting, and a reduction of their long-term salary commitments. They'd still have to commit some to Johnson and Lee, but I think both those guys can keep them competitive with their current core, and AA and Jamison would give them depth and shooting. Lee has length in his deal, but could provide good value as it's not too costly.
    Boston also gets what they want...again, assuming they give up on this season. Jose relieves some hefty money in the offseason. Gray and Hill give them a huge big, which they need, and an athletic big, which they also need. Fields is the tough pill to swallow, but the consolation is if they will suck with Rondo out(and he's out into next season), and they have no plan for PG next year, Fields won't hinder any tanking plans. I'm sure there might be other ways to make it work for them, but I think some cap relief and depth up front to ease KG's load might be priorities. The flip side of taking back Fields is they unload Lee (cheaper but longer), who may be unhappy playing with Rondo, apparently.

    It may seem crazy or unrealistic, but in this deal we would give up none of our young pieces. Not Ed, or JV, or Ross. And we'd still get to see what Lowry has to offer.

    Oh, and I forgot to add that next year, Pierce and Gasol could both easily be hugely attractive trade pieces again, with their championship experience and expiring contracts.
    I actually like this trade as well. I think it would be awesome to add these two vets who are still very capable of leading and putting the team on their shoulders.

    I do have a couple of concerns. Lets say with these two guys the Raps do make a run, im not saying championship but a very high possibility past the first round. after the season, both go off the books. big cap space, but how would they be able to attract a big name FA when two big FAs just left the team? Im assuming both wont resign, actually im hoping both dont resign because Pierce is going to be 37 and Gasol 33. Unless JV, Ed, Ross, Lowry play spectacularly next season and show that they can handle the reigns, i still dont think a big name FA will be able to look at the remaining pieces and say, me and this group can be contenders.

    If the Raptors do get Gay and Gasol, and the Raps make it past the 2nd round next season, there is a bigger possibility that Gay will resign and the Raptors can welcome this with open arms since gay is only 26 (i know not too young but at least younger than 37) and would have enough credibility in the league to pull other big name FAs in.

  12. #352
    Raptors Republic All-Star tucas's Avatar
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    The Toronto Raptors continue to pursue a trade with the Memphis Grizzlies for Rudy Gay.

    The Raptors held the first overall pick in the 2006 NBA Draft and selected Andrea Bargnani, passing over Rudy Gay, amongst others.

    "Bryan Colangelo has loved Gay since his college days," writes Chad Ford. "He was seriously torn between Gay and Bargnani on draft night. I think he feels like if he unites them, the Raptors instantly get better."

    Via Chad Ford/ESPN
    .

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote tucas wrote: View Post
    .
    Fuck. Oopss, sorry. I was hoping he'd say, I was actually really thinking of drafting Gay and now that i have the chance to get him, im setting the wrong right by getting him and then get rid of Bargnani.

  14. #354
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote tucas wrote: View Post
    The Toronto Raptors continue to pursue a trade with the Memphis Grizzlies for Rudy Gay.

    The Raptors held the first overall pick in the 2006 NBA Draft and selected Andrea Bargnani, passing over Rudy Gay, amongst others.

    "Bryan Colangelo has loved Gay since his college days," writes Chad Ford. "He was seriously torn between Gay and Bargnani on draft night. I think he feels like if he unites them, the Raptors instantly get better."

    Via Chad Ford/ESPN
    ... shoot me now.

  15. #355
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    .... Seriously? just cant give up that golden boy can we? might as well trade Ross for Brandon Roy and have a happy ol 06 draft reunion.

  16. #356
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote tucas wrote: View Post
    .
    Just realized Chad Ford said "I think he (BC) feels"

    So its just Chad Ford's opinion, nothing that BC said.

    WHEW!!!!

    Nobody panic!!!! At least not just yet.

  17. #357
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    Fuck. Oopss, sorry. I was hoping he'd say, I was actually really thinking of drafting Gay and now that i have the chance to get him, im setting the wrong right by getting him and then get rid of Bargnani.
    lol I was thinking the same thing.

    If the trade goes down with Calderon/Davis and Bargnani is kept, that would leave a starting unit of Valanciunas/Amir, Bargnani, Gay, DeRozan and Lowry.

    I get the idea of needing a couple good 3pt shooters, to be prepared to spot-up when Lowry/Gay/DeRozan use their dribble to penetrate, but I don't get why it has to be Bargnani that is relied on to do that. If anything, I think it speaks volumes to the fact that DeRozan & Gay don't have skills that mesh well together. That lineup would also leave all the rebounding to the C (JV/AJ).

    I would much rather trade both Bargnani and DeRozan, in an attempt to land a legit starting PF. As for SG, I think a combination of Fields and Ross will be a good fit with Gay. I still think a DeRozan for Millsap trade could work and would be preferable (long-term) to a Bargnani for Gasol trade.

    Looking long-term...
    C: Valanciunas
    PF: ???, Amir
    SF: Gay
    SG: Ross, Fields (Fields could start for defense, letting Ross be the 6th man)
    PG: Lowry

    Once that starting PF is acquired and a decent backup PG is added, that would be a pretty talented 8-man rotation (5 starters, backup big, backup wing, backup PG).
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Jan 30th, 2013 at 01:31 PM.

  18. #358
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Might be that my prediction of Bargnani retiring a Raptor as the all time leader in rebounds will yet become reality. He's currently in fifth place on that list and needs only something like 9-10 more seasons as a Raptor.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    This is what Chad said in his weekly chad about the Gay to Toronto talk

    1. I think the "rumors" are more than rumors at this point. The two sides have been talking and have basically a rough framework for a deal dependent on them finding another team to take on Calderon. 2. The Raptors have been stuck in neutral for a while, they aren't landing a better play than Gay in free agency and while you're right Davis has been good, the Grizzlies aren't just giving Gay away for free. Grizzlies fans will argue that Memphis isn't getting enough. 3. Finally Bryan Colangelo has loved Gay since his college days. He was seriously torn between Gay and Bargnani on draft night. I think he feels like if he unites them, the Raptors instantly get better.

  20. #360
    Raptors Republic Starter japetas's Avatar
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    Bargnani coming back later this week or early next week. Look, he isn't that bad. I have nothing against him staying at Toronto, he's above average PF in the league, just needs to shot less forced shots, maybe he could play off the bench...
    Just try to forget his salary and his crappy plays this year, he had some great moments too

    (Sorry for poor English )

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