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Thread: Gay to debut for Raptors on Sunday [Post #727]

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Default Gay to debut for Raptors on Sunday [Post #727]

    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...e-will-he-land

    Toronto Raptors

    Boy, have injuries complicated things for a team that has long kicked around the idea of acquiring Gay. Jose Calderon won Kyle Lowry’s starting job when Lowry got hurt, and Calderon’s expiring $11 million deal is an easy fit in almost any 2013 mega-trade — even if the Grizzlies already have Mike Conley logging heavy time at Calderon’s position. Andrea Bargnani isn’t a fit in Memphis, but injuries to Bargnani and Jonas Valanciunas have made dealing one of the Amir Johnson/Ed Davis duo a bit dicier.

    Still: It’s easy to build a number of deals that get Memphis under the tax around Calderon and spare parts on either side. Whether Gay fits next to another non-shooter in DeMar DeRozan is a fair question, but the Raptors might be in that Milwaukee boat — unlikely to land a can’t-miss foundational star in free agency, and so willing to roll the dice on a “B” guy via trade.

    This also might be the ultimate litmus test for Memphis: If a Calderon-centric deal is ultimately the best one they can find ahead of the trade deadline, do they just keep Gay and try to slough off $4 million elsewhere — or just swallow hard and pay the tax?
    interesting...
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Wow. Interesting stuff.


    I am torn on this but personally, I'd now say no to Rudy Gay if it was a straight trade between Toronto and Memphis (add 3 or 4 teams then things would change). Circumstances have most definitely changed in Raptorland since last season when a raging boner struck every time I thought of Rudy Gay joining the Raptor front line. In the past I thought of Gay being a great compliment to Bargnani and Bargnani being the Bargnani who briefly appeared to begin last season. Sadly, that Bargnani is M.I.A. and the Raptors are not the 'one wing removed' from being relevant I once thought they were. Given Gay's contract, the production DeMar is putting up (quite similar to Gay but half the price), Ross' emergence as a 3 point threat and defensive stopper, and the fact no one player is going to stop a LBJ or KD (i.e. team effort defense is needed), I'd just assume stay with what the Raptors currently have as the short term potential of adding Gay is about equal to the long term potential of sticking with DD and TR. Gay is a great player but I don't think he is a difference maker on this roster to get them out of the first round in future seasons and I don't think his addition is enough to overcome the loss of Calderon plus one of DD or TR to get them in to the playoffs this season. But then again, wtf do I know?


    Add multiple teams and Bargnani/Calderon part of the puzzle being sent out and welcome aboard Rudy!
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Not sure why Cleveland is not included.

    They have over $9M in cap room, 7 draft picks over the next 3 seasons, a large expiring contract in Walton ($6M), and two very serviceable wings in CJ Miles and Alonzo Gee to step in and play.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Since Hollinger now works for Memphis there is no way they would take Bargnani in any deal and so that would leave Jose + someone like Amir/Ed/DeMar/Terrence. Not sure that's a good move for the long term especially since they would still have to trade Bargnani.

    If Gay could be had for Jose + Fields or Kleiza (plus second rounders) then definitely would do it.. but that's not going to happen especially since other teams can offer better packages (like Cleveland).

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    Raptors Republic All-Star tucas's Avatar
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    Ya surprisingly I'm going to say pass on Rudy gay for now. No way we get him without giving up Ross or derozan.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Since Hollinger now works for Memphis there is no way they would take Bargnani in any deal and so that would leave Jose + someone like Amir/Ed/DeMar/Terrence. Not sure that's a good move for the long term especially since they would still have to trade Bargnani.

    If Gay could be had for Jose + Fields or Kleiza (plus second rounders) then definitely would do it.. but that's not going to happen especially since other teams can offer better packages (like Cleveland).
    Hollinger also took a strip off Toronto for the Ross pick on draft night.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    The thing with rudy gay to me is that it seems like he takes nights off and this is not something we want on our team. I say the raptors go after NENE from the wizards...he doe's not want to be there and we can prob trade straight up for him. bargnani for nene!!

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Crazy, crazy, crazy. A winning streak for an otherwise talentless team and suddenly we don't want Rudy Gay anymore. This is where comments like "holy crap, we could have had Kobe for Vince!" are born.
    your pal,
    ebrian

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    never wanted Gay on our team, mostly because of the price is likely too high all around. Not only does he have one of the worst contracts in the league, Memphis will likely be asking for a lot, and don't really have much need for either Bargs or Calderon.

    Gay brings nothing to the table that we don't already have now that Ross is finding his stroke, Anderson has become a valuable bench player, and Demar is having a superb season. Gay is a lazy player who settles for lots of jumpers, and is not a good enough shooter to justify it. Gay's game has not really evolved since his second year, and he doesn't do anything that well. He's obviously a starting SF in this league, but he's not a max player or a franchise player. Right now, Demar is actually playing much better, in my opinion, and there's nothing Gay brings that will make him worth his price. IF the Raps can't transition Fields into the starting SF spot, than they may feel the need to trade, but the more the team keeps playing like this, the less likely I think they'd take on a big contract, and more likely I think they'd go for a stopgap of hopefully good value. I can't think of any SFs like that right now that would be available, but C deals that might make sense are ones for guys like Okafor or Gortat.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Hollinger also took a strip off Toronto for the Ross pick on draft night.
    He still values Ross, but tabbed him as being picked about 10 slots too early; he threw out a Courtney Lee comp.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Crazy, crazy, crazy. A winning streak for an otherwise talentless team and suddenly we don't want Rudy Gay anymore. This is where comments like "holy crap, we could have had Kobe for Vince!" are born.
    Hmmmmm. You think? I'm really torn.

    He is a b-list star making super A-list money. Statistically the Raps are getting nearly as much from DeRozan. Is the tiny bit extra really worth another $8M per year in salary starting next season?

    http://www.thenbageek.com/players/co..._ids[]=150
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Phat Farmer's Avatar
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    If we can keep Lowry, DD, Ross, Jonas & Ed, I would still do the deal for Rudy Gay. Like Planet Mars said, it would be great if we could include Fields or Kleiza or both so we dont have a huge logjam on the wings I'm down.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Phat Farmer's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Hmmmmm. You think? I'm really torn.

    He is a b-list star making super A-list money. Statistically the Raps are getting nearly as much from DeRozan. Is the tiny bit extra really worth another $8M per year in salary starting next season?

    http://www.thenbageek.com/players/co..._ids[]=150
    Matt I hear where you are coming from, I dont think Rudy's had a fair shake of it being in Memphis. He was injured a couple of years ago going into the playoffs as they were really coming together as a team, and now it seems like he's almost squeezed out of the equation in Memphis and is maybe now their 3rd or 4th option. Coming to the East, and being the 1st or 2nd option on our team I think will really help him. Plus he seems like a good coachable player. I dont see any problems with him provided he's given a decent amount of playing time and scoring load and we could see him step up. I do agree with you that his current production compared to Derozan's may not merit the extra $8 million, but his talent is unreal and I can see him performing better with a more defined role.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Phat Farmer wrote: View Post
    Matt I hear where you are coming from, I dont think Rudy's had a fair shake of it being in Memphis. He was injured a couple of years ago going into the playoffs as they were really coming together as a team, and now it seems like he's almost squeezed out of the equation in Memphis and is maybe now their 3rd or 4th option. Coming to the East, and being the 1st or 2nd option on our team I think will really help him. Plus he seems like a good coachable player. I dont see any problems with him provided he's given a decent amount of playing time and scoring load and we could see him step up. I do agree with you that his current production compared to Derozan's may not merit the extra $8 million, but his talent is unreal and I can see him performing better with a more defined role.
    You may very well be right.

    I have said in the past, and still feel, there is a talent issue in Toronto. Gay is certainly a talented guy.

    I don't like the idea of giving up DD or Ross - and to be honest, especially Ross given his skill set which compliments either DD or Gay.

    Add in another team or two and who knows? But I still think Cleveland is most likely.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Wow. Interesting stuff.


    I am torn on this but personally, I'd now say no to Rudy Gay if it was a straight trade between Toronto and Memphis (add 3 or 4 teams then things would change). Circumstances have most definitely changed in Raptorland since last season when a raging boner struck every time I thought of Rudy Gay joining the Raptor front line. In the past I thought of Gay being a great compliment to Bargnani and Bargnani being the Bargnani who briefly appeared to begin last season. Sadly, that Bargnani is M.I.A. and the Raptors are not the 'one wing removed' from being relevant I once thought they were. Given Gay's contract, the production DeMar is putting up (quite similar to Gay but half the price), Ross' emergence as a 3 point threat and defensive stopper, and the fact no one player is going to stop a LBJ or KD (i.e. team effort defense is needed), I'd just assume stay with what the Raptors currently have as the short term potential of adding Gay is about equal to the long term potential of sticking with DD and TR. Gay is a great player but I don't think he is a difference maker on this roster to get them out of the first round in future seasons and I don't think his addition is enough to overcome the loss of Calderon plus one of DD or TR to get them in to the playoffs this season. But then again, wtf do I know?


    Add multiple teams and Bargnani/Calderon part of the puzzle being sent out and welcome aboard Rudy!
    I agree. Rudy Gay would just take away minutes from TR. I think he needs minutes. The way I look at a DD/TR wing duo in two years will be better and cheaper than Rudy now .

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    If we could get him without giving up JV, DeMar and Ross then yeah i'm all for it. If one of those guys are involved then i say NO.
    Follow me on Twitter - @11_RRyan

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Phat Farmer's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    You may very well be right.

    I have said in the past, and still feel, there is a talent issue in Toronto. Gay is certainly a talented guy.

    I don't like the idea of giving up DD or Ross - and to be honest, especially Ross given his skill set which compliments either DD or Gay.

    Add in another team or two and who knows? But I still think Cleveland is most likely.

    I completely agree with you Matt. If doing the deal means giving up DD, Ross, Lowry, Davis or Jonas, forget about it. At the start of the season, I think you were ok with trading Demar or Ross as part of that package, as was I. But seeing how they have both developed I want to hang onto both of them. Maybe included them in another package, but not for Gay. If we can include Kleiza or Fields preferably Kleiza that would be great. That would mean we push Anderson out of the picture which I would be fine with. I would love a rotation of Demar, Gay, Ross & Fields on our wings and hope for continued development from Jonas & Davis.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Interesting 3 way trade idea by Wolstat:

    Gay, Bell, Watson to Tor. Millsap, Marvin to Mem + 2 seconds, Calderon, Bargnani to Jazz is cap compliant, but Jazz rather trade Al than PM
    Follow me on Twitter - @11_RRyan

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    Interesting 3 way trade idea by Wolstat:

    Gay, Bell, Watson to Tor. Millsap, Marvin to Mem + 2 seconds, Calderon, Bargnani to Jazz is cap compliant, but Jazz rather trade Al than PM
    I recall reading Millsap interview talking about the desire to be a PF where ever he plays next season. That is not going to happen in Memphis and they already have Speights and Arthur as back ups. Then there is the issue of paying Millsap next season.

    I think any deal that sends Gay to Toronto is going to be a huge, multi-team deal. Really only want to get it done.


    Another interesting note is Lowry and Gay are still tight, I believe. Makes sense with the age, same team years ago, and relative proximity of home towns (Philly and Baltimore).
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Imagine if we could get Gay w/out giving up the 3 players that i mentioned above. We could have a closing lineup of:

    JV/Amir
    Gay
    DeRozan
    Ross
    Calderon/Lowry

    Sick!
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