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Thread: Bargnani to Celtics deal in the works?

  1. #41
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Further more, Go here and have a look at the possible Small Forwards hitting Free Agency this year.

    Out of ALL of them, Dorrell Wright is the only one that is a legit option in my opinion. All the others are either on Team Options which are sure to be picked up, or Player Options which are also sure to be picked up, or I'm just not interested.
    Here's the catch though: you aren't looking at the length of Green's deal, just next year. You'd just be replacing one millstone with another.

    Furthermore, I didn't say I'd be looking to sign a free agent SF for the same money, now did I? Maybe BC would be, but I wouldn't. I'd much rather amnesty Bargs as a last resort, then plug roster holes with cheap vets until you can either let one of the current core develop into something worth building around, or make a trade with your assets for a legit franchise player (and if it were me, I'd tank for 2014, but I realize that's not gonna fly). Why add on a terrible contract that's just going to turn into Bargs 2.0: a guy that's overpaid because of the 'potential' that he fails to realize year after year? I really don't understand what people see in Jeff Green...

  2. #42
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    Here's the catch though: you aren't looking at the length of Green's deal, just next year. You'd just be replacing one millstone with another.

    Furthermore, I didn't say I'd be looking to sign a free agent SF for the same money, now did I? Maybe BC would be, but I wouldn't. I'd much rather amnesty Bargs as a last resort, then plug roster holes with cheap vets until you can either let one of the current core develop into something worth building around, or make a trade with your assets for a legit franchise player (and if it were me, I'd tank for 2014, but I realize that's not gonna fly). Why add on a terrible contract that's just going to turn into Bargs 2.0: a guy that's overpaid because of the 'potential' that he fails to realize year after year? I really don't understand what people see in Jeff Green...
    I agree I think Lark is talking about how the NBA works here

    But the point is that Jeff Green is someone else....I think everyone is overestimating what we can get for AB. don't forget that this is the second straight year he has been injured for a significant chunk of games. If you couple that with the fact that he is terrible at defense and rebounding (that's not important is it?), BC is probably on his knees begging teams to take him right now. That's the reality.

    Jeff Green can at least contribute positively or some other team can at least conceive of the idea that he can contribute positively, whereas the perception with AB is that he is a waste of space

  3. #43
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Fair point Lark, I guess jumped to a conclusion on that one.
    For me its not "what I see in Jeff Green"; its purely based on the fact that I want to see an asset coming back in exchange for Bargs. And while Jeff Green may have a pretty hefty deal, there are MUCH worse out there, and Green has something to contribute to the team. In my opinion. As I said, I'd rather see someone like Thad Young, but whether or not that is realistic, I have no idea.

    I also don't want to pay the guy to walk away. I'm very much against this.
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    Raptors Republic All-Star charlesnba23's Avatar
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    As I said earlier. I'm not even sure Boston would trade Jeff Green for Andrea Bargnani. And to me his contract ain't that much worse.

    I'd definitely do it though. Green is not crap like others seem to think. He can ball. And he can start. And at the 3 spot.

    Green can't be traded until January 15th so that's when we can see what's going on.

    They are talking blockbuster, so this must be involving some players.

    Bargnani, Kleiza and Gray for Green and Bass. Celtics need help inside so that's why I added Gray. I don't know if this works with the salaries though.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  6. #46
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote BallaBalla wrote: View Post
    I agree I think Lark is talking about how the NBA works here

    But the point is that Jeff Green is someone else....I think everyone is overestimating what we can get for AB. don't forget that this is the second straight year he has been injured for a significant chunk of games. If you couple that with the fact that he is terrible at defense and rebounding (that's not important is it?), BC is probably on his knees begging teams to take him right now. That's the reality.

    Jeff Green can at least contribute positively or some other team can at least conceive of the idea that he can contribute positively, whereas the perception with AB is that he is a waste of space
    I don't think people are overestimating - people are saying amnesty instead.

  7. #47
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    I don't think people are overestimating - people are saying amnesty instead.
    Sorry i thought I read somewhere that someone was talking about how we should hold on to him to try and get something better than Jeff Green

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    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    As I said earlier. I'm not even sure Boston would trade Jeff Green for Andrea Bargnani. And to me his contract ain't that much worse.

    I'd definitely do it though. Green is not crap like others seem to think. He can ball. And he can start. And at the 3 spot.

    Green can't be traded until January 15th so that's when we can see what's going on.

    They are talking blockbuster, so this must be involving some players.

    Bargnani, Kleiza and Gray for Green and Bass. Celtics need help inside so that's why I added Gray. I don't know if this works with the salaries though.
    I just don't see why anyone would make this trade and take back AB AND LK...but then again I could be looking at this through raptors-coloured glasses

  9. #49
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote BallaBalla wrote: View Post
    I just don't see why anyone would make this trade and take back AB AND LK...but then again I could be looking at this through raptors-coloured glasses
    Agreed. If Boston wants more from us, I think Anderson is the most likely target. I would like to at least pluck a 1st rd pick from them as well, especially if they want more than Bargs. I would also throw in Gray if they'll throw Sullinger back our way.

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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    Just initial talks ... also mentions that they have spoken to numerous teams about trading Rudy.
    Our only big expiring chip is Jose, and he is so valuable to us right now ...
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  12. #52
    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    On the topic of the thread ... Maybe i'm using only short term memory, but I don't have a problem with a SG/SF tandem of Derozan, Anderson, Ross and Fields ... well balanced, athletic, defenders, shooters ... team guys too, with upside.
    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

  13. #53
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    I agree with that. It seems the Raps have already sort of plugged the SF hole by platooning DD, Anderson, Ross and Fields. It's not a bad approach from a defensive perspective. If they had another scoring forward punch (Bargs post-injury?) things should balance out not too badly.

    I strongly feel that holding on to Bargs until the right offer comes along is the best approach, however long it takes. He is still a sizable asset and he can be used as a scoring insert off the bench. That would be a bummer for Kleiza, but likely won't hurt the team's style at all.

    If I were Casey, I'd try to get JV as a starter going more offensively with Calderon as a pick and roll duo. The Raptors' bench is then killer with Lowry, AA and TR; JV will gain confidence fast I expect and the team ought to be competitive every game. I don't think it matters who starts at PF; ED and Amir are about equally solid. When the right offer for Bargs, Kleiza or AA comes along, the team can upgrade its starting SF role. It's not like this season really matters beyond development and confidence.

    The best case scenario is AA turns into a known name around the league and can be packaged with Bargs and Kleiza to get something nice.

  14. #54
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Further more, Go here and have a look at the possible Small Forwards hitting Free Agency this year.

    Out of ALL of them, Dorrell Wright is the only one that is a legit option in my opinion. All the others are either on Team Options which are sure to be picked up, or Player Options which are also sure to be picked up, or I'm just not interested.
    I like Wright. Greaet shooter, defender, and rebounder (for his position).
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  15. #55
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    It just means one less with cap space and picks to take away a deal for #tradeBargnani.



    Or at least I hope so

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  16. #56
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Lots of talk about using the amnesty clause on Bargs, but think about it for a minute. Now I don't care on way or another, but the teams owners might be averse to eating his salary for two years for no return. It is one thing to amnesty a player because you have some huge free agent that you are about to sign and need the salary space, but just to get rid of him to free up a roster spot on speculation that you will get something good? I can't see it happening.

    Bargs just flat out doesn't get amnestied unless something big is on offer. Which means that likely he stays, or else an equal or similar salary with a usable player attached comes back. Going to be pretty hard to package him in any deal that involves the Raps getting a decent pick back unless other Raps players are included. I can't see anyone wanting Bargs bad enough to let the Raps get the best of the deal, which means that BC has to find some way to use him on the team.

  17. #57
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Amnesty Bargnani, and then offer Milsap $44M/4 years.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Lots of talk about using the amnesty clause on Bargs, but think about it for a minute. Now I don't care on way or another, but the teams owners might be averse to eating his salary for two years for no return. It is one thing to amnesty a player because you have some huge free agent that you are about to sign and need the salary space, but just to get rid of him to free up a roster spot on speculation that you will get something good? I can't see it happening.

    Bargs just flat out doesn't get amnestied unless something big is on offer. Which means that likely he stays, or else an equal or similar salary with a usable player attached comes back. Going to be pretty hard to package him in any deal that involves the Raps getting a decent pick back unless other Raps players are included. I can't see anyone wanting Bargs bad enough to let the Raps get the best of the deal, which means that BC has to find some way to use him on the team.
    They almost definetely will be adverse to it, but that doesn't mean it isn't a better option for this team.

    Using the amnesty option isn't just to free up the cap space then go and use it back up. Its also using it so you know that cap space is there in case something becomes available.

    Also, the price paid to the player is his contract signed with the team minus his new deal (in an auction). So that also takes a bit of the sting out of the cost (not much though)

    From a simle $ perspective (after this year) Green = 30 mil. Bargnani = 23 mil - contract payed by the team who picks him up. The Raptors will still be saving dollars if the don't go out and use that space immediately.

    Last bold - Bargnani not playing is becoming the biggest use to this team so far

  19. #59
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Amnesty Bargnani, and then offer Milsap $44M/4 years.
    Trade Bargnani with hopefully no more than $5M coming back for next season.... but useful assets like prospect and/or pick (even 2nd round).

    Bank on rumours of cap going up about $5M are true.

    Amnesty Kleiza.

    Now make that $44M offer to Millsap with $6M left to get a backup PG.
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  20. #60
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Trade Bargnani with hopefully no more than $5M coming back for next season.... but useful assets like prospect and/or pick (even 2nd round).

    Bank on rumours of cap going up about $5M are true.

    Amnesty Kleiza.

    Now make that $44M offer to Millsap with $6M left to get a backup PG.
    Is that including derozans extension money? That seems like a lot of space.

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