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Thread: Raptors making a STRONG push for Rudy Gay?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Perhaps "slasher" in this case means, "I don't have a reliable jumper, so I need to get closer to the rim any way possible".
    But doesn't it usually imply slashing to the rim to receive a pass? He only gets to the rim when he is driving with the ball in his hands. When he doesn't have the ball in his hands he's pretty stagnant isn't he?

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote:
    and can't remember the last time he was the recipient of pass for an easy bucket at the rim (could just be me confusing what slasher means though).
    According to Basketball Reference, 42 of his 78 makes at the Rim were Assisted. So I'd say it happens fairly regularly.
    "That was Nasty right? Cocked that Joint back and banged on 'em." -James Johnson

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Demar is a lot more active off the ball when Lowry is playing along side him, Lowry possibly driving makes the defense have to respect the offense of our backcourt more equally.

    Calderon was never al that great at setting up players like Demar. DeRozan even has the ball in his hands more with Lowry as PG to get his ast numbers up.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I don't mean anything by this, but .. have you been watching the games this year??

    I only ask because Demar is converting 65% of his shots at the Rim this year.

    Not only that, but he really hasn't been complaining to the refs at all this season.
    ya i have been watching & everytime Demar drives & gets any kind of pressure he flings his arms looking for calls he rarely gets..& everytime demar hits the floor, throws his arms up & bitches to the refs, quite a bit of times leaving his man to run the floor the other way with NO body on them..Ive seen it happen regularly..albeit less during the recent team success.

    im glad u put a link to the stats you use for derozans efficiency at the rim...if u look on the same site stats for T.Ross youll see hes converting 69% at the rim as a Rookie...Soo the one thing Demar is good at T.Ross is Better at
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2013/

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I don't mean anything by this, but .. have you been watching the games this year??

    I only ask because Demar is converting 65% of his shots at the Rim this year.

    Not only that, but he really hasn't been complaining to the refs at all this season.
    I would not go that far but I agree with your post and the complaining is certainly less than the past.
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  6. #26
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    According to Basketball Reference, 42 of his 78 makes at the Rim were Assisted. So I'd say it happens fairly regularly.
    But does that include open breaks and lobs? In half courts sets I don't remember him as moving well without the ball...like say for examle Landry Fields early in the season when he seemed to get a few buckets each game with those baseline cuts.

  7. #27
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    ya i have been watching & everytime Demar drives & gets any kind of pressure he flings his arms looking for calls he rarely gets..& everytime demar hits the floor, throws his arms up & bitches to the refs, quite a bit of times leaving his man to run the floor the other way with NO body on them..Ive seen it happen regularly.
    Disagree with this. All of it. Not what I've seen at all.
    Last year this may have been the case, but not this year. Not from what I've seen.

    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    im glad u put a link to the stats you use for derozans efficiency at the rim...if u look on the same site stats for T.Ross youll see hes converting 69% at the rim as a Rookie...Soo the one thing Demar is good at T.Ross is Better at
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...shooting/2013/
    I don't really want to get into comparing the two of them, as I'm a huge supporter of both guys.

    But just to play your game here.. Terrence Ross' Strength is shooting from distance, ya?
    And yet Demar is far better shooting from 10ft-15ft, and 16ft to the 3pt line (Combined Demar is at 39.6%, compared to Ross 32.8%). And on top of that Ross's 33% from 3 is nothing to brag about.

    Again, don't get me wrong, Love me some TRoss and have supported him from the minute he was picked, but this whole notion that Ross makes Demar expendable is ridiculous in my opinion.
    "That was Nasty right? Cocked that Joint back and banged on 'em." -James Johnson

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    ...but this whole notion that Ross makes Demar expendable is ridiculous in my opinion.
    I suppose this statement might be true if we look past this season, and project yearly improvement in Ross's game.

    If Ross turns into a legit shooting guard, and Gay is acquired via trade, then I would certainly conclude that DeRozan is expendable.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I suppose this statement might be true if we look past this season, and project yearly improvement in Ross's game.
    I'm inclined to agree.

  10. #30
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote:
    If Ross turns into a legit shooting guard.
    My point being that Demar has already turned into a legit Shooting Guard. In my opinion.
    And could very easily translate these skills to the 3-spot.

    If anything, Demars play of late has made Rudy Gay expendable...(though Rudy's play hasn't helped any). Their numbers are basically a wash, with Demar coming in slightly more efficient.
    Last edited by Joey; Thu Jan 10th, 2013 at 11:43 AM.
    "That was Nasty right? Cocked that Joint back and banged on 'em." -James Johnson

  11. #31
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I suppose this statement might be true if we look past this season, and project yearly improvement in Ross's game.

    If Ross turns into a legit shooting guard, and Gay is acquired via trade, then I would certainly conclude that DeRozan is expendable.
    I agree. Long-term, I see Gay/Ross being a better fit than Gay/DeRozan.

    As much as DeRozan has improved, I still think he's a little overrated by Raptors fans and not worth his new contract. I fear him ultimately suffering the same fate as Bargnani, in that he's not a true #1 guy who's been forced to become the face/cornerstone/#1 guy of the franchise by management. He's still very inconsistent, inefficient, subpar defensively and at the 3pt line, despite his improvements this season.

    I would be happy with the folllowing:
    1. Trade DeRozan & Calderon for Gay (and likely Selby, since they already have 4 PGs before adding Calderon)
    2. Trade Bargnani (as much as I have defended him, he and Toronto need a divorce)
    3. Trade Anderson (he's 30, at peak value and not in the team's long-term plans)
    4. Trade Pietrus (some playoff team might like his veteran defense & 3pt shooting)
    5. Trade Kleiza or amnesty him next offseason (ESPN had an Insider rumor today about Kleiza being a top amnesty candidate)


    They'd have a solid young core group for the long-term:
    C: Valanciunas
    PF: Davis, Johnson
    SF: Gay
    SG: Ross, Fields
    PG: Lowry

    I think the Raps would be in pretty decent shape heading into next offseason, where they could potentially target a free agent PF, if they aren't satisfied with Davis as the starter (especially if Bargnani amounts to a salary dump and Kleiza is amnestied).
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Thu Jan 10th, 2013 at 11:46 AM.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    My point being that Demar has already turned into a legit Shooting Guard. In my opinion.
    And could very easily translate these skills to the 3-spot.

    If anything, Demars play of late has made Rudy Gay expendable...
    (I say this half in jest..)
    DeMar might succeed at the 3, but you have to admit he's less skilled than Gay. If contracts were ignored, there's no question who the better player is.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  13. #33
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    DeMar might succeed at the 3, but you have to admit he's less skilled than Gay. If contracts were ignored, there's no question who the better player is.
    Rudy Gay is 26. Demar Derozan is 23.
    Projecting Demars growth going forward, I'll take Demar over Rudy.

    And with the way Rudy has regressed this year, its makes it even easier for me to take Demar going forward. Ignoring contracts.
    However, keeping contracts in mind, Demar is now a no-brainer over Rudy. In my crazy opinion.
    The only thing Rudy will have over Demar when Demar is 26, is an inch in height, and alot more money from his crazy Max-contract.
    "That was Nasty right? Cocked that Joint back and banged on 'em." -James Johnson

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Rudy Gay is 26. Demar Derozan is 23.
    Projecting Demars growth going forward, I'll take Demar over Rudy.

    And with the way Rudy has regressed this year, its makes it even easier for me to take Demar going forward. Ignoring contracts.
    However, keeping contracts in mind, Demar is now a no-brainer over Rudy. In my crazy opinion.
    The only thing Rudy will have over Demar when Demar is 26, is an inch in height, and alot more money from his crazy Max-contract.
    I don't have any statistical evidence to support this, but I feel DeMar's numbers are inflated (due to high usage with the Raptors), and Gay's numbers lowered (due to sharing touches with ZBo/Gasol...two legit allstars).

    But at the end of the day, the most important distinction between DeMar and Gay is Gay's ability to create something out of nothing. He's a closer. You can clear out the floor and give him the ball in an ISO situation, with the clock winding down, and say "create a shot....win us the game". We haven't had such a weapon since Vince quit (approaching 8 years).

    I think Gay's skillset is far too valuable to pass up.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I don't have any statistical evidence to support this, but I feel DeMar's numbers are inflated (due to high usage with the Raptors), and Gay's numbers lowered (due to sharing touches with ZBo/Gasol...two legit allstars).

    But at the end of the day, the most important distinction between DeMar and Gay is Gay's ability to create something out of nothing. He's a closer. You can clear out the floor and give him the ball in an ISO situation, with the clock winding down, and say "create a shot....win us the game". We haven't had such a weapon since Vince quit (approaching 8 years).

    I think Gay's skillset is far too valuable to pass up.
    Exactly. the 23-10 Grizzlies are way different than the 13-22 Raptors

  16. #36
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    Rudy Gay leads Memphis in usage rate with a career-high of 25.84, his TS% is a career-low 48.7, 44% of his shots are assisted. Inside 9 ft he shoots 53.8% on 6.5 attempts per game. Between 10-23ft Rudy shoots 39.2% on 5.6 attempts. 32.3 3P% on 3.3 attempts. 0.25 FT rate, second lowest in his career. Career high is 0.31

    http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Rudy%20Gay

    Demar's usage rate is 23.99, TS% of 52.5, 52% of his shots are assisted, down from 63.8% last year. Inside 9ft he shoots 61.6% on 6 attempts per game. Between 10-23ft Demar shoots 37.8% on 6.6 attempts. 30.9 3P%, 1.7 attempts. Career low 0.32 FT rate, 0.37 last year.

    http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?...eMar%20DeRozan
    Last edited by bobbybutler; Thu Jan 10th, 2013 at 02:32 PM.

  17. #37
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote:
    and Gay's numbers lowered (due to sharing touches with ZBo/Gasol...two legit allstars).
    Would his FG% not be reflective of this though? Feels like it should. But at 41% on the season, Rudy is shooting at lower clip than any FG% Demar has ever averaged as a Pro.


    Quote bobbybutler wrote: View Post
    Rudy Gay leads Memphis in usage rate with a career-high of 25.84, his TS% is a career-low 48.7, 44% of his shots are assisted. Inside 9 ft he shoots 53.8% on 6.5 attempts per game. Between 10-23ft Rudy shoots 39.2% on 5.6 attempts. 32.3 3P% on 3.3 attempts. 0.25 FT rate, second lowest in his career. Career high is 0.31

    http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Rudy%20Gay

    Demar's usage rate is 23.99, TS% of 52.5, 52% of his shots are assisted, down from 63.8% last year. Inside 9ft he shoots 61.6% on 6 attempts per game. Between 10-23ft Demar shoots 37.8% on 6.6 attempts. 30.9 3P%, 1.7 attempts. Career low 0.32 FT rate, 0.37 last year.

    http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?...eMar%20DeRozan
    This is exactly the break down I was hoping to do .. but you did it better. Thanks bobby!!
    Last edited by Joey; Thu Jan 10th, 2013 at 02:57 PM.
    "That was Nasty right? Cocked that Joint back and banged on 'em." -James Johnson

  18. #38
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    How is Rudy on defense?...I know what he can do on offense.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote bobbybutler wrote: View Post
    Rudy Gay leads Memphis in usage rate with a career-high of 25.84, his TS% is a career-low 48.7, 44% of his shots are assisted. Inside 9 ft he shoots 53.8% on 6.5 attempts per game. Between 10-23ft Rudy shoots 39.2% on 5.6 attempts. 32.3 3P% on 3.3 attempts. 0.25 FT rate, second lowest in his career. Career high is 0.31

    http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Rudy%20Gay

    Demar's usage rate is 23.99, TS% of 52.5, 52% of his shots are assisted, down from 63.8% last year. Inside 9ft he shoots 61.6% on 6 attempts per game. Between 10-23ft Demar shoots 37.8% on 6.6 attempts. 30.9 3P%, 1.7 attempts. Career low 0.32 FT rate, 0.37 last year.

    http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?...eMar%20DeRozan
    this is a great post. this shows exactly the offensive effect both have.

    Demar is 3 years younger, millions of dollars cheaper, used less and more efficient.

    trading him for one inch, less efficient scoring and millions of dollars doesn't make sense.

    chewbacca is a wookie. wookies do not live on endor. it does not make sense.
    Last edited by Joey; Fri Jan 11th, 2013 at 07:12 AM. Reason: Fixed typo

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    this is a great post. this shows exactly the offensive effect both have.

    sense is 3 years younger, millions of dollars cheaper, used less and more efficient.

    trading him for one inch, less efficient scoring and millions of dollars doesn't make sense.

    chewbacca is a wookie. wookies do not live on endor. it does not make sense.
    demar not sense. stupid auto correct

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