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Thread: Chisholm sums up reality of any Rudy Gay deal

  1. #61
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    I think AA will be a good player for the next 3 years, minimum.


    The guy has shown more than Derozan in the short time he has been with us. What is the point of playing these guys, seeing them be successful at a high level, against teams like OKC that play stiffling defence and trading them for 2nd round picks that may never make your roster?

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    As I mentioned on the main page yesterday, a Rudy Gay deal involving Calderon/Davis/parts would be highway robbery in our favour. Not sure why Memphis would consider it.

    But I still don't understand why Raps fan would decline it....
    Because Gay just isn't that good, especially at that price with confirmed attitude issues. Simple as that.

  3. #63
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=golden;176436]
    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    As I mentioned on the main page yesterday, a Rudy Gay deal involving Calderon/Davis/parts would be highway robbery in our favour. Not sure why Memphis would consider it.

    But I still don't understand why Raps fan would decline it....[/QUOTE]
    Because Gay just isn't that good, especially that price with confirmed attitude issues. Simple as that.
    He's better than any player on our roster. And what attitude issues? The fact that he ideally wants more touches? That's 90% of NBA players.

    EDIT: If there's one thing this team is lacking, it's players who demand the ball in pressure situations.
    Last edited by Nilanka; Thu Jan 10th, 2013 at 01:36 PM.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  4. #64
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    23-10 and he wants out? We want to trade for this guy?

  5. #65
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Wow, I knew the condition mattered, but I just figured with all the loopholes that you could trade a pick that is later than the conditions on the one currently being sent out to OKC, or with conditions for when that is traded away, like trading away their next available pick, which even with a year gap could've been 2015. I also didn't realize/remember the pick was protected until 2018!!!! Talk about not having confidence in your rebuild...Damn it Colangelo...
    That's exactly why so many RR posters would love the Raps to finish 9th place this year, so that they give away the worst possible draft pick in an incredibly weak draft, while opening up future 1st round picks to once again be used as trade chips.

    If the Raps do miss the playoffs and lose their 1st round pick in the 2013 draft, then next offseason (after the draft) they could theoretically trade their 2014 & 2016 & 2018 1st round picks, if they so desired. There are definite benefits to having the conditions surrounding the 'future 1st round pick' getting resolved sooner rather than later.

  6. #66
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    I have seen two 1st round picks come and go, Bayless, and JJ.


    Here is AA playing better than both of them, and you guys want to swap him for second rounders. I seriously am starting to think that this fanbases addiction is POTENTIAL.

    We don't want to win. We want to dream.



    EDIT: Advanced stats are showing AA to be a gem of a pickup

  7. #67
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    I have seen two 1st round picks come and go, Bayless, and JJ.


    Here is AA playing better than both of them, and you guys want to swap him for second rounders. I seriously am starting to think that this fanbases addiction is POTENTIAL.

    We don't want to win. We want to dream.
    Trading AA has only been discussed in a package involving Gay, not second round picks in isolation. You're arguing against a claim nobody made.

    EDIT: Also, AA's had a stretch of 11 decent games. Maybe we wait a while before anointing him our saviour for the next 3 years.
    Last edited by Nilanka; Thu Jan 10th, 2013 at 01:40 PM.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  8. #68
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    I have seen two 1st round picks come and go, Bayless, and JJ.


    Here is AA playing better than both of them, and you guys want to swap him for second rounders. I seriously am starting to think that this fanbases addiction is POTENTIAL.
    You've already admitted that you agree that Anderson is NOT in the long-term plans for the Raptors, which means he's potentially taking playing time away from any/all of DeRozan, Ross and Fields (forgetting about Kleiza and Pietrus entirely).

    My point of view is about 3 things:
    1. maximizing playing time for your younger players who will be part of the future (DD, TR, LF)
    2. maximizing value of trade chips who aren't in future plans (AA)
    3. turning 2nd/3rd string players who aren't in the future plans into something that could become a player who becomes part of the future core group (ie: draft picks, young prospects)

  9. #69
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Trading AA has only been discussed in a package involving Gay, not second round picks in isolation. You're arguing against a claim nobody made.
    I actually did say that in an earlier post, completely unrelated to Gay. I said that I would support trading AA while his value was at its highest, considering he's not in the long-term plans for the team.

    Two realistic suggestions I gave were:
    1) trade AA for 1 or 2 2nd round picks
    2) trade AA & 1 of Toronto's 2nd round picks for a mid-late 1st round pick (ie: to a playoff team)

  10. #70
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I think Gay could thrive as a #1 option in a lineup with Lowry, DeRozan/Ross, Valaciunas and a legit starting PF (whether it's Davis or TBD)
    I'm really not convinced of that. He has been given that chance in Memphis. Memphis had a team of Gasol, Randolph, Conley, Tony Allen and OJ Mayo until this year. You would probably argue he should be the #1 option there. He leads them in scoring, but he's hardly their key player. Their success depends on their bigs because they're more consistent. When Randolph was out last year, Gay didn't find a way to assert himself more and lead his team. It's not like he hasn't been given every opportunity to prove himself. They even made it clear they would expect more from him by letting Mayo go, and he hasn't been able to respond accordingly.

  11. #71
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    I only think 2 or 3 players are in the long term potential for this team, and I don't think Gay is one of them (even if we get him). Fairly sure we will get Marioned on this one.

    3 years of AA's services can put us in a position to draft/trade for a future SF.

  12. #72
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I actually did say that in an earlier post, completely unrelated to Gay. I said that I would support trading AA while his value was at its highest, considering he's not in the long-term plans for the team.

    Two realistic suggestions I gave were:
    1) trade AA for 1 or 2 2nd round picks
    2) trade AA & 1 of Toronto's 2nd round picks for a mid-late 1st round pick (ie: to a playoff team)
    My bad. Apologies to BasketballCrush
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  13. #73
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    I would love Gay in a Raptors uniform, but I would rather have Millsap. I just don't see them being able to get both. Gay will eat a lot of that cap space up ($17M next season), and with their roster adding up to $59M in salaries next season, the Raptors would have to reduce a lot of salary to be able to get about $11/$12M under the cap to get Millsap.

    $59M + $17M (Gay) = $76M
    ---> the cap is at $58M.. and say they raise it to $63M the Raptors would still have to shed $24/$25M so that they get about $11M under the cap and that does not include Jose's salary since it would already be off the books.

    Even if they included DeMar in a trade, they still wouldn't have enough if they amnestied Andrea. They would have to create a wild 3 or 4 team trade that included both Andrea and DeMar, and then look to amnesty Kleiza.

    I just don't see it happening.

    Of course they could trade for Millsap and then use his Bird Rights to resign him. Something like this.

  14. #74
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    Also our team thrives on ball movement. We have players that are most effective when they get shots. Not so sure about getting Gay and him demanding a certain amount of touches.


    Again no one has addressed the elephant in the room? Why bolt from a 23-10 team? For touches? Please tell me that is not the reason.

  15. #75
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I'm really not convinced of that. He has been given that chance in Memphis. Memphis had a team of Gasol, Randolph, Conley, Tony Allen and OJ Mayo until this year. You would probably argue he should be the #1 option there. He leads them in scoring, but he's hardly their key player. Their success depends on their bigs because they're more consistent. When Randolph was out last year, Gay didn't find a way to assert himself more and lead his team. It's not like he hasn't been given every opportunity to prove himself. They even made it clear they would expect more from him by letting Mayo go, and he hasn't been able to respond accordingly.
    No, I respect Memphis's decision to focus on their bigs, considering the advantage that the combination of Gasol/Randolph gives them. It's clear that Gay has been their #3 option, which is likely a big reason why his numbers aren't what they could be and why he is likely frustrated (especially when their home fanbase attacks him for not putting up bigger numbers, as if he were their #1 option).

  16. #76
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    My bad. Apologies to BasketballCrush
    I also am looking at the minutes. If Gay comes on board, there is no point in benching AA, you are just loosing momentum on an asset, you better trade him or play him. He has earned it.

  17. #77
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I would love Gay in a Raptors uniform, but I would rather have Millsap. I just don't see them being able to get both. Gay will eat a lot of that cap space up ($17M next season), and with their roster adding up to $59M in salaries next season, the Raptors would have to reduce a lot of salary to be able to get about $11/$12M under the cap to get Millsap.

    $59M + $17M (Gay) = $76M
    ---> the cap is at $58M.. and say they raise it to $63M the Raptors would still have to shed $24/$25M so that they get about $11M under the cap and that does not include Jose's salary since it would already be off the books.

    Even if they included DeMar in a trade, they still wouldn't have enough if they amnestied Andrea. They would have to create a wild 3 or 4 team trade that included both Andrea and DeMar, and then look to amnesty Kleiza.

    I just don't see it happening.

    Of course they could trade for Millsap and then use his Bird Rights to resign him. Something like this.
    1. trade DeRozan & Calderon for Gay
    2. trade Bargnani for salary relief (ie: expiring contract, non-guaranteed contract)
    3. amnesty Kleiza (#2 & #3 could be reversed)

    That would leave them with enough cap space to go after a top free agent PF, while still having both Davis/Amir on the roster. They could free up more space by trading one of them (and going after a legit C to play behind Valanciunas).

  18. #78
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I actually did say that in an earlier post, completely unrelated to Gay. I said that I would support trading AA while his value was at its highest, considering he's not in the long-term plans for the team.

    Two realistic suggestions I gave were:
    1) trade AA for 1 or 2 2nd round picks
    2) trade AA & 1 of Toronto's 2nd round picks for a mid-late 1st round pick (ie: to a playoff team)
    I agree with this wholeheartedly. I love AA, but he's making almost no money, and is playing about as well as he can. He really isn't in the long term plans, no matter how much he's bringing right now and his value might bring back something useful, be it a pick or as part of a bigger deal.

  19. #79
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    Also our team thrives on ball movement. We have players that are most effective when they get shots. Not so sure about getting Gay and him demanding a certain amount of touches.


    Again no one has addressed the elephant in the room? Why bolt from a 23-10 team? For touches? Please tell me that is not the reason.
    I did, several posts ago. He doesn't want to 'bolt'. He is frustrated being the #3 option and being the fans' scapegoat. It's more a matter of the team realizing a change is needed (similar to Bargnani in Toronto) and owernship wanting to lower payroll.

  20. #80
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    1. trade DeRozan & Calderon for Gay
    2. trade Bargnani for salary relief (ie: expiring contract, non-guaranteed contract)
    3. amnesty Kleiza (#2 & #3 could be reversed)

    That would leave them with enough cap space to go after a top free agent PF, while still having both Davis/Amir on the roster. They could free up more space by trading one of them (and going after a legit C to play behind Valanciunas).
    I like this. I would give up DD for Gay in a heartbeat. I honestly think that AA is the more relevant player, to the teams success. My opinion is that DD is super easy to replace.

    (I like Derozan as a player, as human being, but I think Gay is much more valuable and I just don't think Derozan will ever step out of the shadows)
    Last edited by BasketballCrush; Thu Jan 10th, 2013 at 01:52 PM.

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