Chisholm sums up reality of any Rudy Gay deal

[Nilanka]

Also our team thrives on ball movement. We have players that are most effective when they get shots. Not so sure about getting Gay and him demanding a certain amount of touches.

Again no one has addressed the elephant in the room? Why bolt from a 23-10 team? For touches? Please tell me that is not the reason.

Firstly, we don't know if he wants out. It's just speculation, isn't it? It's not like he's publicly demanding a trade.

Secondly, why is wanting a change of scenery considered so evil? If Gay feels he's under-utilized, and blamed by the media/fanbase, then a fresh start could be exactly what the doctor ordered.

[Matt52]

1. trade DeRozan & Calderon for Gay
2. trade Bargnani for salary relief (ie: expiring contract, non-guaranteed contract)
3. amnesty Kleiza (#2 & #3 could be reversed)

That would leave them with enough cap space to go after a top free agent PF, while still having both Davis/Amir on the roster. They could free up more space by trading one of them (and going after a legit C to play behind Valanciunas).

Can you pass the bong, CRF?

jk

[white men can't jump]

No, I respect Memphis's decision to focus on their bigs, considering the advantage that the combination of Gasol/Randolph gives them. It's clear that Gay has been their #3 option, which is likely a big reason why his numbers aren't what they could be and why he is likely frustrated (especially when their home fanbase attacks him for not putting up bigger numbers, as if he were their #1 option).

#3 option??? He plays more minutes and takes more shots than anyone on the team. The advantage of Gasol/Randolph is clear, but when LA had Gasol/Bynum, it didn't stop Kobe Bryant from dominating the games as he was their best player. Gay may not be Kobe, but he also does not really dominate games, and despite his talent level, hasn't been able to distinguish himself as Memphis' top player. If he was a legit #1 option, he would be one there, is my point.

[Matt52]

Firstly, we don't know if he wants out. It's just speculation, isn't it? It's not like he's publicly demanding a trade.

Secondly, why is wanting a change of scenery considered so evil? If Gay feels he's under-utilized, and blamed by the media/fanbase, then a fresh start could be exactly what the doctor ordered.

Why not, indeed. It is what is going to happen with Bargnani after all - minus the under utilization part.

[planetmars]

1. trade DeRozan & Calderon for Gay
2. trade Bargnani for salary relief (ie: expiring contract, non-guaranteed contract)
3. amnesty Kleiza (#2 & #3 could be reversed)

That would leave them with enough cap space to go after a top free agent PF, while still having both Davis/Amir on the roster. They could free up more space by trading one of them (and going after a legit C to play behind Valanciunas).

I don't see #2 there working. Which team would give up an expiring contract big enough to take on Bargnani's $10M contract? I've tried but haven't been very successful.

Kleiza for an expiring contract may be more reasonable but even then he's been injured quite often so I'm not sure what his value would be like among other teams.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Can you pass the bong, CRF?

jk

lol was just pointing out that there are options... in theory

[BasketballCrush]

Lowry, Gay, AA, Amir/Davis, JV


I think that is one hell of a linup that will play solid D.

[Matt52]

lol was just pointing out that there are options... in theory

I know. I was thinking along the same lines. Glad you did it before me because my explanation would have consisted of many more pixels.

[golden]

He's better than any player on our roster. And what attitude issues? The fact that he ideally wants more touches? That's 90% of NBA players.

EDIT: If there's one thing this team is lacking, it's players who demand the ball in pressure situations.

Better than anybody on the roster, based on what? PER? Defensive abilities? And if we want volume chuckers with no conscience, then bring back Mike James at a fraction of the cost. And let's not forget that the Grizzlies made their deep playoff run a few years back when Gay was hurt. Gay is another "addition-by-subtraction" type of guy like Bargs.

[BasketballCrush]

I don't know about you guys but I am having a blast with the current squad we have. Even Jose. I look forward to watching games. I enjoy watching this team rise from the ashes like a phoenix and beating up on teams.

I really am entrtained as a fan, and I can't remember having the strut I have today and I have been a raptor fan for a long long time.


Mind you, reverse it to last month, and I would not have said a peep in this thread.



I am a bliever in not touching what is working, I would like Memphis to sweat it out, I don't want to rush out and trade. Also, why is that we are always the ones begging for dance partners. I want another team to be courting us.

[white men can't jump]

I don't buy the "he's underutilized" talk. Especially with Mayo gone now, he probably has more responsibility than anyone on their team.

I just want to check on nba.com's advanced statistics. He has the highest usage rate of anyone on his team, 25.6%. But also not as high as true franchise players like Kobe, Durant, LeBron, or even Paul Pierce(who I hate).

Oh, and I checked Randolph (22.3%) and Gasol (18.1%). Randolph's is about the same as a guy like Bosh(23%) or Howard(22.7%), or Pau Gasol last year. Kobe's usg btw is 32.5%, and LeBron's is 29.9%. So really Gay could be used more if he deserved it, and no one is significantly hindering his usage in terms of players.

[Nilanka]

Better than anybody on the roster, based on what? PER? Defensive abilities? And if we want volume chuckers with no conscience, then bring back Mike James at a fraction of the cost. And let's not forget that the Grizzlies made their deep playoff run a few years back when Gay was hurt. Gay is another "addition-by-subtraction" type of guy like Bargs.

I'm not going to formulate a sound argument regarding the Mike James/chucker comment. If that's how you view Gay, there's nothing I can type that will convince you otherwise.

Regardless, you can't label someone as an "addition-by-subtraction" player. It's entirely situation-specific. I think Bargnani is a worthless sack of shyte, but even I admit that he could find a decent home somewhere in the league.

[Matt52]

Firstly, we don't know if he wants out. It's just speculation, isn't it? It's not like he's publicly demanding a trade.

Secondly, why is wanting a change of scenery considered so evil? If Gay feels he's under-utilized, and blamed by the media/fanbase, then a fresh start could be exactly what the doctor ordered.

As someone else pointed out (can't remember who, not an original thought by me), a fresh start certainly did wonders for a former high flying Raptor in New Jersey.

[Nilanka]

I don't know about you guys but I am having a blast with the current squad we have. Even Jose. I look forward to watching games. I enjoy watching this team rise from the ashes like a phoenix and beating up on teams.

I really am entrtained as a fan, and I can't remember having the strut I have today and I have been a raptor fan for a long long time.


Mind you, reverse it to last month, and I would not have said a peep in this thread.



I am a bliever in not touching what is working, I would like Memphis to sweat it out, I don't want to rush out and trade. Also, why is that we are always the ones begging for dance partners. I want another team to be courting us.

You've set the bar quite low, my friend. Competitive games are nice, but repeated playoff runs are much better. There's nothing about this current Raptors squad that says, "don't upgrade....we're fine the way we are".

[BasketballCrush]

Don't forget that we have been a Playoff team for 3 years before this, and did not make the playoffs. (setting the bar high has not worked out well for our management)



Success tastest good, even out of a garbage can.



We have built too many teams on paper, its time to actually be looking on the team on the court. That is what I am doing now. I honestly am done with paper, the fantasies just did not do it for me. The curent squad has put a grin on my face from ear to ear. None of Bryan's teams have given me as much enjoyment as this current squad. (but I like tough nose basketball, dispise the eurolegue jump shooting raptors)

[Matt52]

As I've and others have mentioned, ED/JC/2nd round pick is not going to land Gay.

Others have said, DD/ED/JC/2nd rd pick is not worth it for Gay.

Then other others have talked about Millsap.


Here is a thought: Raps have been rumoured to have interest in Ilyasova. What if DD/ED/JC/2nd round pick returned Gay and Ilyasova?

Would you do it?

Lowry
Ross/Fields
Gay
Ilyasova/Amir
JV


Ilyasova started year horrible, coming on of late, overall inconsistent, huge season last year in the always suspicious contract year.

[Matt52]

As I've and others have mentioned, ED/JC/2nd round pick is not going to land Gay.

Others have said, DD/ED/JC/2nd rd pick is not worth it for Gay.

Then other others have talked about Millsap.


Here is a thought: Raps have been rumoured to have interest in Ilyasova. What if DD/ED/JC/2nd round pick returned Gay and Ilyasova?

Would you do it?

Lowry
Ross/Fields
Gay
Ilyasova/Amir
JV


Ilyasova started year horrible, coming on of late, overall inconsistent, huge season last year in the always suspicious contract year.

So playing with the ESPN trade machine, I can make the above concept work but it would take 5 teams and 13 players (in other words it would tie for the largest trade in NBA history with the Miami deal that brought Shaq to Miami).

On the link you need to use your imagination because Ilyasova can't be included for another 5 days hence all those Bucks heading to Toronto but their salary equals just a few thousand over $7.9M. Also Trade Machine does not allow 5 teams. Also Minnesota can take on Gasol and a player who makes less than $854k sending out Pek/Williams/Ridnour/Lee. Finally, Gasol plus player making less than $854k going to MIN and Calderon/Bargnani going to Lakers .... so with that said:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=asgwczv (and throw some picks around: Memphis 1st back to them from MIN? Raps 2nd rd to Lakers?)

Minnesota: Gasol, Jamison
Bucks: DeRozan, Wroten, Lee
Grizz: Dunleavy, Williams, Ridnour
Lakers: Calderon, Bargnani
Raptors: Gay, Pekovic, Ilyasova



DeRozan, Calderon, Davis, 2nd rd

for

Gay, Ilyasova, Pekovic

Would you?

[white men can't jump]

As I've and others have mentioned, ED/JC/2nd round pick is not going to land Gay.

Others have said, DD/ED/JC/2nd rd pick is not worth it for Gay.

Then other others have talked about Millsap.


Here is a thought: Raps have been rumoured to have interest in Ilyasova. What if DD/ED/JC/2nd round pick returned Gay and Ilyasova?

Would you do it?

Lowry
Ross/Fields
Gay
Ilyasova/Amir
JV


Ilyasova started year horrible, coming on of late, overall inconsistent, huge season last year in the always suspicious contract year.

I would consider Ilyasova in general, especially if Bargs is to be dealth by February, or even the start of the offeseason at the latest. Last year was huge, but he showed a lot of promise the year before that too. His shooting easily replaces, if not at least improves % wise compared to Bargs from 3pt land. He can arguably defend all 3 frontcourt positions. He may never even score 13 PPG again, but he's got that grit and effort that TO fans love so much about players like Amir, JYD, Garbo, etc...

In fact, this is partly why I'm generally hesitant to get Gay, even in some miraculous one-sided deal. Nothing about him leads me to believe he's anything like that. In fact, Memphis has that type of character and they're considering getting rid of him. That should be a bit of a warning sign to people who like the culture Toronto has been building, and assume he'd buy in when he should be buying in in Memphis. If he really does believe he deserves more touches, then he's just a lazy, selfish player, because no one on our team, including the much-hated Bargnani, would complain or worry about touches if Toronto was 23-10.

[Matt52]

I would consider Ilyasova in general, especially if Bargs is to be dealth by February, or even the start of the offeseason at the latest. Last year was huge, but he showed a lot of promise the year before that too. His shooting easily replaces, if not at least improves % wise compared to Bargs from 3pt land. He can arguably defend all 3 frontcourt positions. He may never even score 13 PPG again, but he's got that grit and effort that TO fans love so much about players like Amir, JYD, Garbo, etc...

In fact, this is partly why I'm generally hesitant to get Gay, even in some miraculous one-sided deal. Nothing about him leads me to believe he's anything like that. In fact, Memphis has that type of character and they're considering getting rid of him. That should be a bit of a warning sign to people who like the culture Toronto has been building, and assume he'd buy in when he should be buying in in Memphis. If he really does believe he deserves more touches, then he's just a lazy, selfish player, because no one on our team, including the much-hated Bargnani, would complain or worry about touches if Toronto was 23-10.

From this thread, my understanding of those ideas are coming from posters here who are insinuating Gay is those things (and more) in response to comments I made about why he would be a good player in Toronto in response to your original list of 10 items.

I'm not sure where the selfish labels, touch complaints, laziness, poor defense, etc. etc. are coming from. Only place I've ever read such things are on Memphis blogs by posters.

[special1]

I'm not going to formulate a sound argument regarding the Mike James/chucker comment. If that's how you view Gay, there's nothing I can type that will convince you otherwise.

Regardless, you can't label someone as an "addition-by-subtraction" player. It's entirely situation-specific. I think Bargnani is a worthless sack of shyte, but even I admit that he could find a decent home somewhere in the league.

Stay focused PEOPLE!! How about we get rid of the worthless sack of shyte FIRST.... I dont want BC making any trades unless its getting rid of the biggest problem so far (BARGS)..... we've won 9 out of our last 12 OR 13 games PEOPLE. What's with you Homers?? Now it's Gay who's our saviour?? The guy who's shooting 40 percent from the field this year??

Personally i hope it doesnt happen (not for DD or ED). I would do it in a second for BARGS, KLEIZA, Calderon, AA, even AMIR. Lets roll with the players we drafted and continue the rebuild. Rudy misses games due to injury and we're screwed once again.....Dont be fooled PEOPLE - On paper - this does nothing to address our current issues. A 40% shooting SF doesnt solve our problems PEOPLE....