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Thread: Chisholm sums up reality of any Rudy Gay deal

  1. #161
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote connected wrote: View Post
    I'm in favour of acquiring Gay but we shouldn't necessarily be the aggressors in the trade. If Memphis really wants to unload that contract we would have the upper hand. Especially if other teams are rejecting the Grizz offers.

    Despite the contract size and Gay's mediocre defense we need him. He would be a piece that helps us win a unit a la Bulls, nuggets, jazz or Grizz. Someone who can handle the ball in the last 10 seconds. Hopefully we move Bargs (and his contract) if Gay came north.
    I disagree. I think BC should be aggressive in getting this trade done, but not at the expense of giving too much in return. Im not sure if giving up too much is what you meant by "aggressive", if it is, then i agree with you. I think BC should always be aggressive in pursuing trades that can benefit the team.

    Im not sure where people are getting "mediocre" when describing Gay's defense. Memphis was the 8th best defensive team 2 years ago, 5th best last year and #1 this year. Gay plays 37 mins a game, surely he's a big contributor to Memphis' defense since he plays heavy minutes. And his individual DRating is 105, 102 and 99 respectively. compared to lebron who was 102,97 and 103, who plays the same position and has been considered numerous times for DPOY.

    This is actually my selling point with Gay, the ability to handle the ball in the crucial seconds of the game, something that the Raptors have been lacking for quite sometime, and which i think is a skill highly underrated and undervalued. You need a guy who can do this.
    Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Fri Jan 11th, 2013 at 01:08 PM.

  2. #162
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    So apparently both T-wolves and warriors gave rejected deals for Rudy Gay.

  3. #163
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    If we play both DD And Gay, who is going to play defense?
    It depends, do the Raptors plan to play just DD and Gay against the other team's 5 other players on the floor? Or put in 3 other guys along with DD and Gay?

  4. #164
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    "I'm not sure where people are getting "mediocre" when describing Gay's defense."


    from scouting report:
    His length nets him a lot of blocks and steals, but the Grizzlies gave up 6.0 more points per 100 possessions when he was on the floor.

  5. #165
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    But isnt that the M.O. of every GM in the league? Find ways to improve the team and one of the ways of doing it is to get players better than the crap (according to you) that you currently have? To me, cap space is like a office spending voucher. Initially, you think, wow, i have all this money to spend for the whole year, so i better save it. You find something worthy of buying, you say to yourself, hhhmm, maybe i can get something better, or cheaper, so you wait. And wait. And wait. Till the time comes when the voucher is about to expire and youre stuck and forced to spend it on things that you dont really need. IMO, if you have the money, spend it on the first best thing that comes along. If you think the Raptors have other more surefire prospects than Gay, let me know.
    I think you answered your own post right there. Gay is not worth the money. We all agree on that. And since when did overpaying-for-mediocre-talent become the M.O. of every GM in the league? lol.

  6. #166
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    "I'm not sure where people are getting "mediocre" when describing Gay's defense."


    from scouting report:
    That's weird, because Dime Magazine claims:

    With Rudy Gay on the floor, the Grizzlies score 106.4 points per 100 possessions, which is good enough to be sixth in the league overall, trailing only the Thunder, Heat, Knicks, Clippers and Spurs. With him off the court, they’re back around their overall average this season at 102.1, via 82games.com. With Gay on the court, the Grizzlies also give up 99.8 points per 100 possessions, which is right in line with their overall defense (99 points given up per 100 possessions). With him off the court, they’re giving up 102.2.
    http://dimemag.com/2013/01/why-the-g...de-rudy-gay/2/
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    I think you answered your own post right there. Gay is not worth the money. We all agree on that. And since when did overpaying-for-mediocre-talent become the M.O. of every GM in the league? lol.
    Gay is legit talent. Not mediocre talent.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    "I'm not sure where people are getting "mediocre" when describing Gay's defense."


    from scouting report:
    Hhhhmmm....

    2012-13 Los Angeles Lakers Roster and Stats
    PTS/G: 103.2 (4th of 30) ▪ Opp PTS/G: 101.7 (26th of 30)
    SRS: 2.06 (10th of 30) ▪ Pace: 94.8 (3rd of 30)
    Off Rtg: 108.6 (6th of 30) ▪ Def Rtg: 107.0 (22nd of 30)
    Expected W-L: 19-16 (13th of 30)

    If the Lakers are giving up 101 pts a game, does this mean that Dwight Howard, 37mins a game, and MWP, 35 mins a game are "mediocre" defenders?

    Hhhhmmm.

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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    Hhhhmmm....

    2012-13 Los Angeles Lakers Roster and Stats
    PTS/G: 103.2 (4th of 30) ▪ Opp PTS/G: 101.7 (26th of 30)
    SRS: 2.06 (10th of 30) ▪ Pace: 94.8 (3rd of 30)
    Off Rtg: 108.6 (6th of 30) ▪ Def Rtg: 107.0 (22nd of 30)
    Expected W-L: 19-16 (13th of 30)

    If the Lakers are giving up 101 pts a game, does this mean that Dwight Howard, 37mins a game, and MWP, 35 mins a game are "mediocre" defenders?

    Hhhhmmm.
    (Facepalm)

    STATS 101, guys....

    You need to look at the individual DRTG vs. the team DRTG. Lakers (107.0) vs Howard (101). Dwight is a full 6 pts/possession better than the team average. Steve Nash is at 111. That's pretty much what you expect.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2013.html

  10. #170
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    I think you answered your own post right there. Gay is not worth the money. We all agree on that. And since when did overpaying-for-mediocre-talent become the M.O. of every GM in the league? lol.
    I think this argument is coming down to subjectivity. True that Gay is not worth his current salary, but in acquiring Gay, BC is not offering him a new contract. If he was a free agent and BC is offering him 82.3 for 5 years on top of Amir's, Bargnani and Calderon's hideous contracts then somebody slap BC. But he's not. He's trading salaries in order to accommodate Gay's salary. And if you keep thinking the Gay is mediocre at best then no salary is going to fit your standards.

    Like i said, thrown in some names that are reachable for the Raps, players who their respective teams are realistically willing to part with, who is better skill-wise than Gay and way cheaper, then you will have me on your corner.

  11. #171
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    (Facepalm)

    STATS 101, guys....

    You need to look at the individual DRTG vs. the team DRTG. Lakers (107.0) vs Howard (101). Dwight is a full 6 pts/possession better than the team average. Steve Nash is at 111. That's pretty much what you expect.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2013.html
    (Faceslap)

    So what does Gay's 99 individual DRtg mean vs. Memphis' 98.9? Mediocre?

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...advanced::none

    I admit im not much of a stats guy, but the lower the number, the better, right?
    Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Fri Jan 11th, 2013 at 01:55 PM.

  12. #172
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    I take it back, was just reposting something in this thread. Never closely checked to confirm the accuracy. Hid D looks good now that I have, based on stats.

  13. #173
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Memphis' D looks great. 7 guys on that team this year have a defensive rating less than 100. No wonder they are the best defensive team in the league.

  14. #174
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    (Facepalm)

    STATS 101, guys....

    You need to look at the individual DRTG vs. the team DRTG. Lakers (107.0) vs Howard (101). Dwight is a full 6 pts/possession better than the team average. Steve Nash is at 111. That's pretty much what you expect.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2013.html
    I think i know what youre implying, are you saying that not just because Memphis is a good defensive team that Gay is a good defender?

  15. #175
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    (Facepalm)

    STATS 101, guys....

    You need to look at the individual DRTG vs. the team DRTG. Lakers (107.0) vs Howard (101). Dwight is a full 6 pts/possession better than the team average. Steve Nash is at 111. That's pretty much what you expect.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2013.html
    Golden, I applaud the effort; but at some point you have to accept the fact that around here, people don't change their minds. Haha

    Both sides have made commendable arguments, but at the end of the day, its all opinion.
    And while I agree with yours, that Rudy Gay is no saviour, I have to give it up to the other side and accept that having him on the team wouldn't be a bad thing either. However, if we had to give up Demar to get him, then that to me is BAD and counter productive for the team.
    In Masai we Trust.

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    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    We are in partial agreement, hehe

    In this situation, unfortunately, it seems like in order to get talent, you have to surrender talent. If BC can pull of a Kupchak and acquire Gay like how Kupchak acquired Gasol for scrubs, then by all means! Unfortunately, I dont think (i may be wrong, maybe Gay loves the snow) Toronto is a top-of-the-list destination for Gay like LA was for Gasol, meaning the Lakers had leverage that time and Toronto, at current, does not. So if it means giving up Demar to get Gay, i would have to say yes, only because there is still a fallback with Ross taking over Demar's spot. Ross is already showing that he can play the way Demar is playing, plus a 3 point stroke and much more hustle and effort. If the Raps did not have Ross, i would think twice about giving up Demar for Gay because of the financial implications, but because they have Ross, i wouldnt think twice.
    Fair enough... and after Gay leaves us after 2 years.....what then??

  17. #177
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    Memphis also knows Rudy best medically, they may be trying to sell high. Bird did that with JO'Neal to us.


    Again, I think not a single playoff team will touch that contract or take the chance on a player like Gay (20 missed games each year from a key contributor is not something you can plan for). Not for 16 Million, the package that Memphis is requesting feels steep to me, I don't want to bail them out. They should just keep Gay if he is so good.

    (also aren't they the ones instigating this trade, feels like someone wants to jump ship and clean their hands)

    EDIT: If he misses 20 games this year, next year, and plays just like he has toady. This would be a disaster. The up side is that some of you feel that he will be BETTER on our team, and I think that is wishful thinking, he should be better on Memphis who has the better cast, and record to prove it.
    Last edited by BasketballCrush; Fri Jan 11th, 2013 at 03:05 PM.

  18. #178
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    Fair enough... and after Gay leaves us after 2 years.....what then??
    You could say that about every player. "What if they leave one day?"

    Win some games, and sell them a new contract.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  19. #179
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    The up side is that some of you feel that he will be BETTER on our team, and I think that is wishful thinking, he should be better on Memphis who has the better cast, and record to prove it.
    Based on this logic, wouldn't it make sense for Nash's numbers to be better in LA compared to his previous years in Phoenix? He has much better players in Kobe, Gasol, Howard, etc. when compared to Dudley, Gortat, Frye, etc.

    Small sample size, but you get my point. Sometimes, it comes down to a team utilizing a player differently that can make a world of difference. Gay going from a 3rd option to a 1st option has that potential. Just look at Harden, and to a lesser extent, Mayo (another player I wish we were in the running for last summer).
    Last edited by Nilanka; Fri Jan 11th, 2013 at 03:28 PM.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  20. #180
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Gay going from a 3rd option to a 1st option has that potential.
    I'm not sure why you keep saying this; Rudy Gay has the highest Usage Rate on the Memphis Grizzlies according to Hoopsdata:

    Rudy Gay - 25.84%

    Zach Randolph - 22.74%
    Mike Conley - 20.13%
    Marc Gasol - 18.03%

    He is absolutely their first option. Even their FGA Per Game reflects this:

    Rudy Gay - 16.6 FGA per game

    Zach Randolph - 13.9 FGA per game
    Mike Conley - 11.5 FGA per game
    Marc Gasol - 10.6 FGA per game
    Last edited by Joey; Fri Jan 11th, 2013 at 03:35 PM.
    In Masai we Trust.

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