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Thread: Chisholm sums up reality of any Rudy Gay deal

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    I've mentioned it before, but I would have thought that if Memphis was looking for a guy to replace Gay with a lower price tag that they would probable be looking to Indiana as a trade partner. Either Granger or George would be ideal for them I think. George is showing he has a huge upside and Granger would probably compliment Memphis' interior strengths with his outside shooting touch. If we could end up getting involved in a three team trade and wind up with George I would wet myself.

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Yet you clearly write this with homer blinders.....and your lower posts confirm it. No way Memphis does a deal that's just Jose, Davis and 2nd rd pick(s) for Gay. And on the point of other teams getting involved...that just makes it more likely we'd have to give up prize assets like Ross and JV, and Demar (depending on your opinion). Basicaly with Jose's contract, the hope is that Ed Davis can land us Rudy Gay...that's not happening. I still think any deal, 2 team, 3 team or 4 team, ends up costing us things I'd rather not part with.

    So yeah, I'd maybe do this version of the deal...but it's about as likely as trading Jose and Ed for LeBron.
    Have you been reading my posts? Jesus H. Christ. No shit Memphis does not do that deal. I've only stated a few dozen times for the Raps to get Gay for those assets more teams would have to be involved. Ross is also off limits, JV too. DeRozan, I am not 100% certain, but thinking about how he disappears against skilled and/or larger defenders along with the presence of Ross, then yeah, I probably would pull the trigger. But even including DeRozan would need to involve more teams than Memphis and then there would have to be more coming back to Toronto than just Gay for a package of DD/ED/Calderon/2nd round pick.
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  3. #43
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    It doesn't. Memphis wouldn't basically trade Rudy Gay for Jose and Ed. If these rumors are at all true, then clearly this is either Toronto's shitty offer, or details are left out like Toronto would have to give up 2 future 1st rd picks or something.
    Yet they can't based on CBA.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  4. #44
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I've mentioned it before, but I would have thought that if Memphis was looking for a guy to replace Gay with a lower price tag that they would probable be looking to Indiana as a trade partner. Either Granger or George would be ideal for them I think. George is showing he has a huge upside and Granger would probably compliment Memphis' interior strengths with his outside shooting touch. If we could end up getting involved in a three team trade and wind up with George I would wet myself.
    I would assume that George is an "untouchable" for the Pacers.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  5. #45
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Yet they can't based on CBA.
    How come? Seriously, is there a new restriction on trading picks in the new CBA?

  6. #46
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    As I mentioned on the main page yesterday, a Rudy Gay deal involving Calderon/Davis/parts would be highway robbery in our favour. Not sure why Memphis would consider it.

    But I still don't understand why Raps fan would decline it....

    The reason you pause on this deal, is becuase I dont think SF is a problem any more with AA. Not sure if Gay is the ideal upgrade for this team anymore.


    If we are just acuiring a player, yes Gay is the best talent in this deal. At the same time, dropping Jose and Davis kills our team. From a team stand point, I don't think we get better with this swap.

    I honestly dont care about PLAYERS anymore, I care about the team. I don't see this working out well for us. I think taking out Davis, Jose and AA is going to kill the lockeroom.

    We get a great player, but we had Marion who was supposed to make us playoff bound as well. Sometimes I think team chemistry is mopre important than ONE player. I don't want to send AA packing, or relegate him to the bench. When I see a player playing this well, I pause, sure it may cost me an opportunity to get Gay, but we have been playing better than Memphis without Gay.

    I really think we should value this squad more.


    (I would be ellated if Memphis says no to this deal, they can fuck themselves, AA will make Gay gay, next meeting, BOOK IT)
    Last edited by BasketballCrush; Thu Jan 10th, 2013 at 01:15 PM.

  7. #47
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    How come? Seriously, is there a new restriction on trading picks in the new CBA?
    Yes - new CBA and old CBA.

    Cannot trade first round picks in consecutive years. Cannot trade picks farther than 7 years out.

    Raps have their 1st round pick tied up until either obligation to OKC is fulfilled or on draft night assuming Raps have a pick.

    Now if they go out and get another 1st round pick, then that changes things, but as of now, no they cannot trade a 1st.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
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  8. #48
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    The reason you pause on this deal, is becuase I dont think SF is a problem any more with AA. Not sure if Gay is the ideal upgrade for this team anymore.


    If we are just acuiring a player, yes Gay is the best talent in this deal. At the same time, dropping Jose and Davis kills our team. From a team stand point, I don't think we get better with that swap.

    We get a great player, but we Marion was supposed to make us playoff bound as well. Sometimes I think team chemistry is mopre important than ONE player. I don't want to send AA packing, or relegate him to the bench.
    AA shouldn't be anyone's solution at small forward. He's a nice success story, and a decent bench player, but not a reason to look past Gay. He's a clear upgrade.

    Dropping Jose and Davis may "kill us" this year, but that's assuming no further transactions are made. There's no reason to think Colangelo wouldn't make subsequent moves that helps us down the road. In the meantime, give Lowry the bulk of the minutes at PG, and have Amir and Jonas start in the front court, with Bargnani/Gray/Acy filling in as needed.

    As for Marion, he's a glorified role player. His game is completely different than Gay's. Yes, they're both small forwards, but apples and oranges. Marion NEEDS his teammates to get him the ball in places/situations to score....Gay doesn't.

    EDIT: If the Raps were a legit playoff team, then I would agree that messing with chemistry would be risky. But when a team's absolute ceiling is 40 games (in a best-case scenario), chemistry is not something we should be valuing more than an upgrade in talent.
    Last edited by Nilanka; Thu Jan 10th, 2013 at 01:23 PM.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  9. #49
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    How come? Seriously, is there a new restriction on trading picks in the new CBA?
    The Raptors can't trade any 1st round picks, due to the conditions placed on the 1st round pick owed to OKC (via Houston trade for Lowry). Until that conditional pick is resolved, no future 1st round picks can be traded.

    Toronto's future 1st round pick will go to OKC if...
    2013: #4-14
    2014: #3-14
    2015: #3-14
    2016: #2-14
    2017: #2-14
    2018: no conditions

    The Raptors still have 4 2nd round picks in play over the next 3 drafts...
    2013: Toronto
    2014: Toronto
    2014: Sacramento
    2015: Toronto
    2016: none (Toronto's 2nd round pick is owed to Memphis)
    2017: Toronto
    2018: Toronto

  10. #50
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    The reason you pause on this deal, is becuase I dont think SF is a problem any more with AA. Not sure if Gay is the ideal upgrade for this team anymore.


    If we are just acuiring a player, yes Gay is the best talent in this deal. At the same time, dropping Jose and Davis kills our team. From a team stand point, I don't think we get better with this swap.

    I honestly dont care about PLAYERS anymore, I care about the team. I don't see this working out well for us. I think taking out Davis, Jose and AA is going to kill the lockeroom.

    We get a great player, but we had Marion who was supposed to make us playoff bound as well. Sometimes I think team chemistry is mopre important than ONE player. I don't want to send AA packing, or relegate him to the bench. When I see a player playing this well, I pause, sure it may cost me an opportunity to get Gay, but we have been playing better than Memphis without Gay.

    I really think we should value this squad more.


    (I would be ellated if Memphis says no to this deal, they can fuck themselves, AA will make Gay gay, next meeting, BOOK IT)
    AA is a 30 year old journeyman who is at peak value, playing on a <$1M contract... I seriously hope that BC looks to trade him at the deadline to a playoff team that wants upgraded 3pt shooting. Same goes for Pietrus.

    AA & Pietrus are not in the future plans of this franchise, especially with DeRozan, Ross, Fields and Kleiza already on the roster, so they should be considered as nothing more than assets or trade-chips to cash in.

    If BC could flip AA and Pietrus for draft picks or prospects, it would be a good use of assets.

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Calderon + Davis + 2nd round pick for Gay

    All day everyday.

    Flexibility is not killed, merely altered.

    People need to take off the homer blinders.
    *** --- i'm sorry..... I live in the here and now. Okay, Rudy was a border-line all-star a few years ago (I got that). He's currently being shopped by his current team (who i assume knows a bit more about his character than we do). Why on earth are we looking to give up our assets when he's having an off year to begin with????

    Let's look at the numbers shall we?

    Rudy Gay - 26 years old

    17.8 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 2.6 apg

    shooting 41% fg, 31 %3pfg - effiency at +15.34

    His Career average is 17.9 ppg

    Demar Derozan - 23 years old

    18.1 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1.9 apg

    shooting 44% fg, 29% 3pfg - effiency at 15.20

    his career ppg is 14.6 and rising

    Why on earth would we give up DD, Calderon, ED + picks for a Rudy Gay????....personally i wouldnt give up DD for Rudy Gay

    I like DD's work ethic and i think i'd rather keep my fingers crossed that he keeps improving..... Why do you think Rudy will even stay here after his two years is up??? We know DD wants to be here.... I hope that AB + Calderon + Kleiza + a shit pick can do the trick (especially with other teams involved). I wouldnt give up anything of significance for RUDY **SORRY*

    Then i hope we can get Calderon back next year

  12. #52
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    Also what the hell does Gay have to complain about in Memphis? They are 23-10.

  13. #53
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    Quote Arsenalist wrote: View Post
    The Raptors should not be making this trade under any circumstance unless they are sending Andrea Bargnani back instead of Ed Davis.
    Agreed.

  14. #54
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    AA is a 30 year old journeyman who is at peak value, playing on a <$1M contract... I seriously hope that BC looks to trade him at the deadline to a playoff team that wants upgraded 3pt shooting. Same goes for Pietrus.

    AA & Pietrus are not in the future plans of this franchise, especially with DeRozan, Ross, Fields and Kleiza already on the roster, so they should be considered as nothing more than assets or trade-chips to cash in.

    If BC could flip AA and Pietrus for draft picks or prospects, it would be a good use of assets.
    The way the CBA is structured, you do not let go of players that are producing and getting paid so little. At least not if you want to be competitive.

    I don't think he is a long term option, but Considering Gay wants out of a 23-10 team, I don't think Gay is a long term option for us either.


    I take the lower contract and the better defence.

  15. #55
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    Also what the hell does Gay have to complain about in Memphis? They are 23-10.
    From what I've read the past couple seasons, his biggest beef is how he is a #3 option behind Randolph/Gasol. However, the fanbase attacks him as a scapegoat, since he was a high draft pick who signed a max contract, despite the fact that it's the coaching staff that relegate him to the #3 option (similar to situation to how Raps fans use Bargnani as a scapegoat).

    I think Gay could thrive as a #1 option in a lineup with Lowry, DeRozan/Ross, Valaciunas and a legit starting PF (whether it's Davis or TBD)

  16. #56
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    *** --- i'm sorry..... I live in the here and now. Okay, Rudy was a border-line all-star a few years ago (I got that). He's currently being shopped by his current team (who i assume knows a bit more about his character than we do). Why on earth are we looking to give up our assets when he's having an off year to begin with????

    Let's look at the numbers shall we?

    Rudy Gay - 26 years old

    17.8 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 2.6 apg

    shooting 41% fg, 31 %3pfg - effiency at +15.34

    His Career average is 17.9 ppg

    Demar Derozan - 23 years old

    18.1 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1.9 apg

    shooting 44% fg, 29% 3pfg - effiency at 15.20

    his career ppg is 14.6 and rising

    Why on earth would we give up DD, Calderon, ED + picks for a Rudy Gay????....personally i wouldnt give up DD for Rudy Gay

    I like DD's work ethic and i think i'd rather keep my fingers crossed that he keeps improving..... Why do you think Rudy will even stay here after his two years is up??? We know DD wants to be here.... I hope that AB + Calderon + Kleiza + a shit pick can do the trick (especially with other teams involved). I wouldnt give up anything of significance for RUDY **SORRY*

    Then i hope we can get Calderon back next year
    In your reply you have quoted me saying I would trade Calderon, ED, and a 2nd round pick for Gay yet you go on about DeRozan.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  17. #57
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I think Gay could thrive as a #1 option in a lineup with Lowry, DeRozan/Ross, Valaciunas and a legit starting PF (whether it's Davis or TBD)
    +1

    This statement cannot be stressed enough.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  18. #58
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    The way the CBA is structured, you do not let go of players that are producing and getting paid so little. At least not if you want to be competitive.

    I don't think he is a long term option, but Considering Gay wants out of a 23-10 team, I don't think Gay is a long term option for us either.


    I take the lower contract and the better defence.
    If I could flip AA for a couple 2nd round picks, or flip AA with one of Toronto's 2nd round picks for a mid-late 1st round pick, I'd do it in a heartbeat. AA is NOT in the long-term plans for the Raptors, so it would be in the team's long-term interests to turn him into either a draft pick or a young prospect.

    My thoughts on AA are mutually exclusive to my thoughts about Gay.

  19. #59
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Wow, I knew the condition mattered, but I just figured with all the loopholes that you could trade a pick that is later than the conditions on the one currently being sent out to OKC, or with conditions for when that is traded away, like trading away their next available pick, which even with a year gap could've been 2015. I also didn't realize/remember the pick was protected until 2018!!!! Talk about not having confidence in your rebuild...Damn it Colangelo...

  20. #60
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    Okay, Rudy was a border-line all-star a few years ago (I got that). He's currently being shopped by his current team (who i assume knows a bit more about his character than we do).
    False logic to assume that players being "shopped" are somehow damaged goods. Great players get traded all the time in any sport.

    The idea that Gay is a malcontent, lazy, no-defense, cancer is grossly overblown.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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