Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 44

Thread: Why Shake things up now?

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,063
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Why Shake things up now?

    Besides moving Bargnani honestly why shake up the team now?

    -Buying into the Team System
    -Chemistry
    -Confidence
    -Ball Movement
    -Role Acceptance

    Raps are playing real well and to make the move for the seemingly likely Rudy Gay trade which would cost us Calderon+ a solid piece really why? Is anyone in favor of riding the current build to see where we go and then make a move in off season?

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    2,770
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    We need to convert Jose's success into a useful asset for the team. No point in losing him for nothing. I don't think he will stay here with Lowry, and I doubt Lowry will stay with Jose. ...but you never know.

  3. #3
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    2,770
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Maybe I am wrong with the above, word from Lowry is he loves it here.

  4. #4
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,063
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Im worried about what the trade is its hard to give up any of the core right now playing dam good. No superstar but a team that plays as a team can go far (Utah)

  5. #5
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    2,770
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I hear you, I just dont want to have empty pockets when all is said and done.

  6. #6
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    214
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    I hear you, I just dont want to have empty pockets when all is said and done.
    You don't have empty pockets, you have 10 million in cap space you can throw at whoever you want to. Isn't that just as good as using Jose to pick up an aging PF with bad knees that has been injured as much as he has played? Or a B tier SF who is paid A tier franchise type dollars?

  7. #7
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    18,997
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote CT2010 wrote: View Post
    You don't have empty pockets, you have 10 million in cap space you can throw at whoever you want to. Isn't that just as good as using Jose to pick up an aging PF with bad knees that has been injured as much as he has played? Or a B tier SF who is paid A tier franchise type dollars?
    Depends on who you are offering the money to, if they will take it, if you have to overpay (history says yes), if they fill a position of need, and if you want that cap space to be the only tool for adding talent besides the $2.5M exception.

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/2013-nba-free-agents

    From the free agents, who is worth $10M? I think Millsap. But then what happens to ED/Amir? At SF, I don't see anyone worth $10M. I like Wright though. What about backup PG? If you go SG what happens to DD or Ross? C? Again, what about ED/Amir/ and now JV?
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  8. #8
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    214
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Depends on who you are offering the money to, if they will take it, if you have to overpay (history says yes), if they fill a position of need, and if you want that cap space to be the only tool for adding talent besides the $2.5M exception.

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/2013-nba-free-agents

    From the free agents, who is worth $10M? I think Millsap. But then what happens to ED/Amir? At SF, I don't see anyone worth $10M. I like Wright though. What about backup PG? If you go SG what happens to DD or Ross? C? Again, what about ED/Amir/ and now JV?
    All great points. I nothing says that we have to spend it all on one guy either. I don't know what the answer is, but don't feel that trading Jose is the only viable option as it is being presented by many. If we resign him to a reasonable contract, then we have our PG tandem intact. I don't care who starts, don't have any agendas regarding either PG, as long as we win I am happy with the tandem. With the remaining money and assests that you have outlined above we can potentially secure a player or players that fit better in to our system. I agree on the overpaying comment, but Gay is hugely overpaid, to me makes Demar's extension look pretty reasonable.

  9. #9
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,561
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote CT2010 wrote: View Post
    ...I don't know what the answer is, but don't feel that trading Jose is the only viable option as it is being presented by many. If we resign him to a reasonable contract, then we have our PG tandem intact....
    I think most posters concern is that if Jose doesn't resign, then all you have is some cap space, some of which get's eaten up by escalating salaries currently on the team. Whereas, trading Jose to a playoff team in need will net a decent piece.

    As has been pointed out by so many, it's all about the talent. Excellent coaching can carry you some distance, but without talented players, a team isn't going anywhere. And having financial flexibility only means something if you can either A: Attract free agent talent, or B: Be the facilitator in a multi-team trade that lands you a talented player. For the Raps, "A" hasn't been terribly effective and "B" hasn't occurred. Hence Matt's mantra, "bad contracts for picks."

  10. #10
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    18,997
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Besides moving Bargnani honestly why shake up the team now?

    -Buying into the Team System
    -Chemistry
    -Confidence
    -Ball Movement
    -Role Acceptance

    Raps are playing real well and to make the move for the seemingly likely Rudy Gay trade which would cost us Calderon+ a solid piece really why? Is anyone in favor of riding the current build to see where we go and then make a move in off season?
    Calderon could leave for nothing and all the 'true professional' talk is a double edged sword.

    There is about $3M less in flexibility due to DeRozan's extension (his cap hold would have been around $6.5M I think).

    You have to take opportunities when they arise. Waiting for off season keeps Calderon's contract on the books until July 1st and then after July 1st a team like, say Memphis, is going to have the tax bill they clearly are trying to avoid.

    Who says any new players won't buy in to the system? Who says current guys don't start to think of themselves? Nothing is guaranteed is my only point and talent trumps all.

    I don't care what Matt/Jack/Leo says, the Raps aren't loaded with talent. Gay, for example, would automatically be best player on the team.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  11. #11
    Raptors Republic Starter mike, prague's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    962
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Calderon could leave for nothing and all the 'true professional' talk is a double edged sword.

    There is about $3M less in flexibility due to DeRozan's extension (his cap hold would have been around $6.5M I think).

    You have to take opportunities when they arise. Waiting for off season keeps Calderon's contract on the books until July 1st and then after July 1st a team like, say Memphis, is going to have the tax bill they clearly are trying to avoid.

    Who says any new players won't buy in to the system? Who says current guys don't start to think of themselves? Nothing is guaranteed is my only point and talent trumps all.

    I don't care what Matt/Jack/Leo says, the Raps aren't loaded with talent. Gay, for example, would automatically be best player on the team.
    True but I think regarding the whole "trade Calderon" question, if it ends up in anyway it is a going to be a big gamble. Like honestly, everybody here has to agree that nobody on the current roster drives the team like Jose, as much as I love Lowry and as much as he has shown his passing potencial, you can kind of tell that he is more of a shoot first PG even though he has tried to pass more often recently. The Raptors style is the team first style and that is what Calderon does best and does it as one of the best in the league. If you trade Jose you are gambling that the new guy (Gay?) might become like the previously brought in guys (Marion, Hedo Jerkoglu) and that the team chemistry will fall apart to a larger extent.

    If keep till June then your risking him leaving for nothing obviously and all you can do is hope that he will see a team that hopefully is on the rise (with that team being the Raptors) and him wanting to be a part of it.

    So according to me no matter what Colangelo does it will be a gamble and in the long run people will likely start complaining about how it should have been done in a situation where no decision is necesarily the right one.

  12. #12
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    103
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote mike, prague wrote: View Post
    True but I think regarding the whole "trade Calderon" question, if it ends up in anyway it is a going to be a big gamble. Like honestly, everybody here has to agree that nobody on the current roster drives the team like Jose, as much as I love Lowry and as much as he has shown his passing potencial, you can kind of tell that he is more of a shoot first PG even though he has tried to pass more often recently. The Raptors style is the team first style and that is what Calderon does best and does it as one of the best in the league. If you trade Jose you are gambling that the new guy (Gay?) might become like the previously brought in guys (Marion, Hedo Jerkoglu) and that the team chemistry will fall apart to a larger extent.

    If keep till June then your risking him leaving for nothing obviously and all you can do is hope that he will see a team that hopefully is on the rise (with that team being the Raptors) and him wanting to be a part of it.

    So according to me no matter what Colangelo does it will be a gamble and in the long run people will likely start complaining about how it should have been done in a situation where no decision is necesarily the right one.
    It is not a recipe for success having 2 starting pg's on the team. It's not good asset allocation. I don't happen to feel Jose is a starting pg, on a good team. But of course, he does. We shouldn't re sign him, so we should get something for him. Great guy, great pro, but not the pg I would want on a playoff team, which I believe the raps will be in the future. Lowry is the pg of the future.

  13. #13
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Posts
    3,851
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Calderon could leave for nothing and all the 'true professional' talk is a double edged sword.

    There is about $3M less in flexibility due to DeRozan's extension (his cap hold would have been around $6.5M I think).

    You have to take opportunities when they arise. Waiting for off season keeps Calderon's contract on the books until July 1st and then after July 1st a team like, say Memphis, is going to have the tax bill they clearly are trying to avoid.

    Who says any new players won't buy in to the system? Who says current guys don't start to think of themselves? Nothing is guaranteed is my only point and talent trumps all.

    I don't care what Matt/Jack/Leo says, the Raps aren't loaded with talent. Gay, for example, would automatically be best player on the team.
    I would still say Kyle Lowry would be the better player.

  14. #14
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    18,997
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I would still say Kyle Lowry would be the better player.
    It is a debate I'd love to have assuming both were in Raptor uni's
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  15. #15
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Posts
    3,851
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    It is a debate I'd love to have assuming both were in Raptor uni's
    And 1

  16. #16
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    68
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Point Guard

    The Raptors can put 1 of the 3 best PG combs in the NBA on the floor. Why would anyone want to downgrade that position?
    it is a long season ( injuries )
    it is a long season ( some nights 1 has it and the other doesn't )
    it is a long season ( it is the toughest position to play )
    it is a long career ( Jose has never asked to be moved and seems to like Toronto) ( He might be open to a reasonable new contract to become the Raptor's first lifer)

  17. #17
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    103
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Because I'd rather play Lowry more. Because Jose won't accept a backup role with less money. If he did, sure, am all for it.

  18. #18
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,561
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote big boi wrote: View Post
    Because I'd rather play Lowry more. Because Jose won't accept a backup role with less money. If he did, sure, am all for it.

    Yesssss.

  19. #19
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    103
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote kuzzybear wrote: View Post
    The Raptors can put 1 of the 3 best PG combs in the NBA on the floor. Why would anyone want to downgrade that position?
    it is a long season ( injuries )
    it is a long season ( some nights 1 has it and the other doesn't )
    it is a long season ( it is the toughest position to play )
    it is a long career ( Jose has never asked to be moved and seems to like Toronto) ( He might be open to a reasonable new contract to become the Raptor's first lifer)
    Because I want Lowry to play more. Because Jose is unlikely to accept a backup role at a significantly lower salary. If he did, sure, fine, happy to have him as a backup.

  20. #20
    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Jurassic Park
    Posts
    2,932
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I don't really know anymore. The more i see Davis play, i'm convinced that he's just going to get better and better. What is he averaging since he became the starting PF? probably close to double-double, no? he and DeRozan have improved their game so much this year, it's crazy.

    Rudy Gay is a terrific player. If the Raps could get him for Calderon + Davis + future picks(rumoured trade). I guess it's alright. But i'll be alright too if we hold on to Davis and Calderon.

    What i would love to see: Bargnani + Calderon + future picks for Gay
    Follow me on Twitter - @11_RRyan

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •