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Thread: Why Shake things up now?

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Default Why Shake things up now?

    Besides moving Bargnani honestly why shake up the team now?

    -Buying into the Team System
    -Chemistry
    -Confidence
    -Ball Movement
    -Role Acceptance

    Raps are playing real well and to make the move for the seemingly likely Rudy Gay trade which would cost us Calderon+ a solid piece really why? Is anyone in favor of riding the current build to see where we go and then make a move in off season?

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    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    We need to convert Jose's success into a useful asset for the team. No point in losing him for nothing. I don't think he will stay here with Lowry, and I doubt Lowry will stay with Jose. ...but you never know.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    Maybe I am wrong with the above, word from Lowry is he loves it here.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Im worried about what the trade is its hard to give up any of the core right now playing dam good. No superstar but a team that plays as a team can go far (Utah)

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    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    I hear you, I just dont want to have empty pockets when all is said and done.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Besides moving Bargnani honestly why shake up the team now?

    -Buying into the Team System
    -Chemistry
    -Confidence
    -Ball Movement
    -Role Acceptance

    Raps are playing real well and to make the move for the seemingly likely Rudy Gay trade which would cost us Calderon+ a solid piece really why? Is anyone in favor of riding the current build to see where we go and then make a move in off season?
    Calderon could leave for nothing and all the 'true professional' talk is a double edged sword.

    There is about $3M less in flexibility due to DeRozan's extension (his cap hold would have been around $6.5M I think).

    You have to take opportunities when they arise. Waiting for off season keeps Calderon's contract on the books until July 1st and then after July 1st a team like, say Memphis, is going to have the tax bill they clearly are trying to avoid.

    Who says any new players won't buy in to the system? Who says current guys don't start to think of themselves? Nothing is guaranteed is my only point and talent trumps all.

    I don't care what Matt/Jack/Leo says, the Raps aren't loaded with talent. Gay, for example, would automatically be best player on the team.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Calderon could leave for nothing and all the 'true professional' talk is a double edged sword.

    There is about $3M less in flexibility due to DeRozan's extension (his cap hold would have been around $6.5M I think).

    You have to take opportunities when they arise. Waiting for off season keeps Calderon's contract on the books until July 1st and then after July 1st a team like, say Memphis, is going to have the tax bill they clearly are trying to avoid.

    Who says any new players won't buy in to the system? Who says current guys don't start to think of themselves? Nothing is guaranteed is my only point and talent trumps all.

    I don't care what Matt/Jack/Leo says, the Raps aren't loaded with talent. Gay, for example, would automatically be best player on the team.
    I would still say Kyle Lowry would be the better player.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I would still say Kyle Lowry would be the better player.
    It is a debate I'd love to have assuming both were in Raptor uni's
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Starter mike, prague's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Calderon could leave for nothing and all the 'true professional' talk is a double edged sword.

    There is about $3M less in flexibility due to DeRozan's extension (his cap hold would have been around $6.5M I think).

    You have to take opportunities when they arise. Waiting for off season keeps Calderon's contract on the books until July 1st and then after July 1st a team like, say Memphis, is going to have the tax bill they clearly are trying to avoid.

    Who says any new players won't buy in to the system? Who says current guys don't start to think of themselves? Nothing is guaranteed is my only point and talent trumps all.

    I don't care what Matt/Jack/Leo says, the Raps aren't loaded with talent. Gay, for example, would automatically be best player on the team.
    True but I think regarding the whole "trade Calderon" question, if it ends up in anyway it is a going to be a big gamble. Like honestly, everybody here has to agree that nobody on the current roster drives the team like Jose, as much as I love Lowry and as much as he has shown his passing potencial, you can kind of tell that he is more of a shoot first PG even though he has tried to pass more often recently. The Raptors style is the team first style and that is what Calderon does best and does it as one of the best in the league. If you trade Jose you are gambling that the new guy (Gay?) might become like the previously brought in guys (Marion, Hedo Jerkoglu) and that the team chemistry will fall apart to a larger extent.

    If keep till June then your risking him leaving for nothing obviously and all you can do is hope that he will see a team that hopefully is on the rise (with that team being the Raptors) and him wanting to be a part of it.

    So according to me no matter what Colangelo does it will be a gamble and in the long run people will likely start complaining about how it should have been done in a situation where no decision is necesarily the right one.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    It is a debate I'd love to have assuming both were in Raptor uni's
    And 1

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    Default Point Guard

    The Raptors can put 1 of the 3 best PG combs in the NBA on the floor. Why would anyone want to downgrade that position?
    it is a long season ( injuries )
    it is a long season ( some nights 1 has it and the other doesn't )
    it is a long season ( it is the toughest position to play )
    it is a long career ( Jose has never asked to be moved and seems to like Toronto) ( He might be open to a reasonable new contract to become the Raptor's first lifer)

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    I don't really know anymore. The more i see Davis play, i'm convinced that he's just going to get better and better. What is he averaging since he became the starting PF? probably close to double-double, no? he and DeRozan have improved their game so much this year, it's crazy.

    Rudy Gay is a terrific player. If the Raps could get him for Calderon + Davis + future picks(rumoured trade). I guess it's alright. But i'll be alright too if we hold on to Davis and Calderon.

    What i would love to see: Bargnani + Calderon + future picks for Gay
    Follow me on Twitter - @11_RRyan

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    Raptors Republic Starter RPT23's Avatar
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    I'm liking what Davis and Amir bring to the table. Granted that this combo might not work against teams with very big "bigs" but they are showing they can develop chemistry together. It's obvious that Bargs is the odd man out anyone else that is considered part of the core would be tough to let go.

    Between TR and DD, I'd likely stick with TR since he's younger, has developed into a nice player recently and I feel has a higher ceiling than DD. That's not to say DD can get much, much better.
    #Raptor4Life, #Prepping4thePlayoffs

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Hotshot's Avatar
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    Why shake things now?! because when you lose you are more desperate to make a deal and teams know this and your players value will go down. Beside's this team is still not talented enough to be considered a serious playoff contender, so if there is a deal out there that will increase the over talent level (Rudy Gay) you need to consider it.

    Lowry, Rudy Gay and JV as the Raptors starters begins to sound respectable to me.

  15. #15
    Raptors Republic Starter draftedraptor's Avatar
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    Davis and Amir up front will only work with Jose running the point.

    just saying.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie JalenRose5's Avatar
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    Quote Hotshot wrote: View Post
    Why shake things now?! because when you lose you are more desperate to make a deal and teams know this and your players value will go down. Beside's this team is still not talented enough to be considered a serious playoff contender, so if there is a deal out there that will increase the over talent level (Rudy Gay) you need to consider it.

    Lowry, Rudy Gay and JV as the Raptors starters begins to sound respectable to me.

    +1

    anytime you can add an All-Star to your team, you never pass it up. Rudy Gay is an amazing player, entering his prime. His stats don't do him justice, because he has two amazing bigs who do what they're supposed to do: post up, rebound and protect the paint. He understands the game better, so he doesn't have to be selfish and try and score 30 points a night. What people need to look at is team record. Memphis is 24 -10, Raptors are 14 - 22. I want winners on my team, not guys with potential or guys who try really hard. No knock on Ed Davis, I like him a lot and he has become one of the more consistent players on the Raptors. I wish it was Bargnani gone, but there's a reason why he's not mentioned.

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    The team is playing well but can go only so far. I'm not saying that Rudy Gay is the answer but unless he signs an extension for a reasonable price, Jose must be traded 'cause if he's not, we lose him for nothing. Management must think 'long term'.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    I don't see a need to 'shake things up', but this current Raptors team is not even close to being a top-4 team in the weak Eastern Conference, so it makes no sense just to stand-still because of their current win streak either. I think any team should always be looking to improve, by trading from a position of strength and maximizing the value of their assets.

    Moves I would strongly consider making, assuming a good trade is available (I would never trade just to make a trade):

    1. Bargnani - long been a supporter and still think he could be an excellent offensive weapon, but I think I'm at least 90% sure he and Toronto need a divorce

    2. Calderon - I always think that an expiring contract should be traded, instead of letting them walk for free (unless you plan on making a deep playoff run). I'd trade him and then look to sign him in the offseason

    3. Anderson & Pietrus - older, veteran players at the Raptors' deepest position (wing), neither of which factors into the team's long-term plans, especially with DeRozan, Ross and Fields as three decent young wings. Playoff teams often look to bolster their lineups with good veteran 3pt shooters... draft picks anyone?

    4. Davis/Amir - I still think they are both best suited to be backup PFs on a good team, although Davis has really impressed me of late. I wouldn't hesitate to trade one of them, especially if all the moves left Toronto with enough cap space to target a good starting PF in the offseason (assuming none are acquired in those moves - ie: Millsap)

    5. DeRozan - I would give him up for Gay, but that's about it. I think Gay & Ross would make an excellent wing tandem for years to come
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Sat Jan 12th, 2013 at 01:06 AM.

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    I don't know why anybody wants Gay on our team, at the price he comes at. He'll make twice what DD will over the next few years, yet despite his length and athleticism is NOT a good defender, his 3 point shooting is barely marginally better than DD's, and his overall FG% this year is very marginally better than AB's, yet y'all speak of him as an All-Star franchise type player? I don't get it. He's really not that good,,,,,,, or Memphis would be trying to save money some other way.

  20. #20
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I don't see a need to 'shake things up', but this current Raptors team is not even close to being a top-4 team in the weak Eastern Conference, so it makes no sense just to stand-still because of their current win streak either. I think any team should always be looking to improve, by trading from a position of strength and maximizing the value of their assets.

    Moves I would strongly consider making, assuming a good trade is available (I would never trade just to make a trade):

    1. Bargnani - long been a supporter and still think he could be an excellent offensive weapon, but I think I'm at least 90% sure he and Toronto need a divorce

    2. Calderon - I always think that an expiring contract should be traded, instead of letting them walk for free (unless you plan on making a deep playoff run). I'd trade him and then look to sign him in the offseason

    3. Anderson & Pietrus - older, veteran players at the Raptors' deepest position (wing), neither of which factors into the team's long-term plans, especially with DeRozan, Ross and Fields as three decent young wings. Playoff teams often look to bolster their lineups with good veteran 3pt shooters... draft picks anyone?

    4. Davis/Amir - I still think they are both best suited to be backup PFs on a good team, although Davis has really impressed me of late. I wouldn't hesitate to trade one of them, especially if all the moves left Toronto with enough cap space to target a good starting PF in the offseason (assuming none are acquired in those moves - ie: Millsap)

    5. DeRozan - I would give him up for Gay, but that's about it. I think Gay & Ross would make an excellent wing tandem for years to come
    I remember when we were SUPPOSED to be the top 4 team in the east, ON PAPER, that stuff did not work out for us.


    I am not so trusting of analysts and closetGM's anymore, I want to see what the guys on the floor can do. The chemistry with this team right now is off the scale. Show me the idiot that wants to throw the first stone.


    I am loving this, and am EVEN willing to give Bryan Colangelo credit (I know I smacking myself right now for saying that, but... so far, its hard to argue, the team is perfoming. If we are going to pound him when we suck, we should stop and give him credit when things are going good. Yes, I know about the broken clock, always right, twice a day.)
    Last edited by BasketballCrush; Sat Jan 12th, 2013 at 01:56 AM.

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