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Thread: Why Shake things up now?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Rookie japetas's Avatar
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    Quote draftedraptor wrote: View Post
    Davis and Amir up front will only work with Jose running the point.

    just saying.
    +1
    (Sorry for poor English )

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Starter KHD's Avatar
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    Call me a sucker, but I still want to see Bargnani play with the "new Raptors" before any moves get made, if possible.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    Call me a sucker, but I still want to see Bargnani play with the "new Raptors" before any moves get made, if possible.
    Sucker.

    (jk)
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Starter KHD's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Sucker.

    (jk)
    Mostly, I don't see the logic behind trading him right now. Our team is playing well without him, yes, but him being out is far from the only reason for the recent success. We aren't going to get anything significant back for him right now, and we have the right to amnesty him if things turn out really poorly. With that in mind, I feel that even with his shitty play to start the year, the benefit of him just maybe turning it around still outweighs his trade value right now.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    Mostly, I don't see the logic behind trading him right now. Our team is playing well without him, yes, but him being out is far from the only reason for the recent success. We aren't going to get anything significant back for him right now, and we have the right to amnesty him if things turn out really poorly. With that in mind, I feel that even with his shitty play to start the year, the benefit of him just maybe turning it around still outweighs his trade value right now.
    I understand the sentiments but after 7 years it seems everyone is better off with a move - Bargnani included.

    I think from a basketball and business perspective (business I really don't care about though as I am not cutting the cheque) the Raps can do better than amnesty Bargnani. While his value is not high, I think he could return something of use.

    I think that amnesty should be reserved for Kleiza.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Starter Quirk's Avatar
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    http://www.thenbageek.com/players/co...utf8=%E2%9C%93

    Gay would not even our best wing, let alone best player. Fields, Davis, Johnson, Calderon and Lowrey are all look more productive for the stats.

    But he is a really good player. I wouldn't trade Fields for him, or give on Ross yet, but DeRozan for sure, no problem. Obsiously Bargnani, but doubt that would help the deal, reluctantly Calderon, ok.

    I wonder if Gay is the best we can get for Calderon+DeRozan though?

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Starter The Coach's Avatar
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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    I don't know why anybody wants Gay on our team, at the price he comes at. He'll make twice what DD will over the next few years, yet despite his length and athleticism is NOT a good defender, his 3 point shooting is barely marginally better than DD's, and his overall FG% this year is very marginally better than AB's, yet y'all speak of him as an All-Star franchise type player? I don't get it. He's really not that good,,,,,,, or Memphis would be trying to save money some other way.
    Although I haven't watched a lot of Rudy's games... I can't get out of my head how well Memphis played without him a couple years ago (ala Andrea Bargnani this year). Those guys scare me.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Starter SuperRaptor's Avatar
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    Trades I would make:

    Calderon: He is an expiring contract we can always resign him in the offseason, if we can get something for him why not?

    Calderon + Davis for Rudy Gay: I would not normally be in favor of trading Davis but this is pretty much a Davis for Rudy Gay swap if we consider Calderon is a free agent. We are taking on a bunch of salary but MLSE has tons of cash it is time for them to spend it, look what they did with the Blue Jays, I think MLSE, Rogers, and Bell want to win, and they have deep pockets.

    Bargnani: If a decent deal presents itself that improves the team.

    I would not trade Derozan, Ross, JV, Lowry. I think these guys are our future. One note on Derozan he seems to beat the epicenter of this positive vibe we are getting from the team, he looks like he is assuming a leadership role. I would not trade him as it might mess with team chemistry, besides that he is playing great.
    "Defense wins championships."

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    Davis is a good player, he deserves to be traded for Rudy Gay.



    I still would not do it. I like what Davis has shown this season, hate to be the prick that moves him elsewhere. He has been a good raptor.

  10. #30
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    Rumors of bargs to PHX and grizzlies apparently want Jared Dudley... I see potential in calderon +davis to memphis and bargs to PHX... could be great deal for the raps, i wish we could keep Davis but if our culture is becoming as good as we think it is, we could get him in (1-2 not sure) years when his contract is up. Wishful thinking of course, however i could not pass up on Gay. People forget hes the focus night in night out for his team. The pressure he would take off Derozan would be incredible.

    On a side note i would hate to see Alan Anderson go i have seen so many good things from him and could see him being a excellent backup 3man for this team for the future. I think we have a lot of pieces but one we are clearly missing is an All star. IMO we have to boarder line all stars in Lowry and Demar but Gay is a proven all star already. The athleticism on our wing positions would be un believable and would love to see a 5 wing rotation (with some time being split at 4) with demar ross anderson field and gay.

  11. #31
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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    Davis is a good player, he deserves to be traded for Rudy Gay.



    I still would not do it. I like what Davis has shown this season, hate to be the prick that moves him elsewhere. He has been a good raptor.
    Here's the thing. I believe one of the very overlooked aspects of what Casey and BC (it started before Casey arrived) are doing in building a "new culture" of high character guys who want/enjoy playing here and with each other. I don't believe for a second that this "togetherness" we're seeing began only when the turnaround began. I'd hate to see this path disrupted, except for a true all-star talent, and I fail to see Gay as being that talent.

    He's athletically gifted, but as I said earlier, his overall shooting efficiency is equivalent to AB's and his 3P shooting is equivalent to DD's, and that's with guys like Z-Bo and Gasol taking defensive attention away from him!! Hell, he's not even a good defender, yet fans want the Raps to give up assets and pay this guy what they pay both DD and AB combined? IMHO, it makes zero sense, when most criticism of BC has been that he jumps too often at quick fixes and needs to be patient with a slow build. Damn, I see a very nice wing rotation of DD/Fields/Ross developing, with Anderson keeping them all honest.

    I'm all in favour of using assets to improve, but don't see Gay as a good move at all.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    They've been fun to watch, but if there is an opportunity to improve the team long term you have to take it. At the end of the day only 3 of our victories are against teams over .500 (Indiana, Houston, and Portland). The rest of our victories are against mostly bottom feeders (Orlando x 3, Clevland, Phoenix, New Orleans). We've also got a few wins agains teams like Minnesota, Detroit and Philli, whom are contenders for playoff spots I suppose, but the win agains Minni and Philli was with key players out I beleive.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Starter Pill's Avatar
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    Giving up Davis for Gay makes no sense to me. He will be a rental and nothing else. If the guy isnt happy in Memphis, he wont be happy here unless we are going to the finals. That wont happen in the 2 year window we have. I would rather have Ed Davis for those years than this over payed malcontent.

    Try and move expiring contracts and dead weight like bargs and see what we end up with. That should be the priority. Dont give up players that make quantum leaps in their game for 2 year expensive rentals.

  14. #34
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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    I hear you, I just dont want to have empty pockets when all is said and done.
    You don't have empty pockets, you have 10 million in cap space you can throw at whoever you want to. Isn't that just as good as using Jose to pick up an aging PF with bad knees that has been injured as much as he has played? Or a B tier SF who is paid A tier franchise type dollars?

  15. #35
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Besides moving Bargnani honestly why shake up the team now?

    -Buying into the Team System
    -Chemistry
    -Confidence
    -Ball Movement
    -Role Acceptance

    Raps are playing real well and to make the move for the seemingly likely Rudy Gay trade which would cost us Calderon+ a solid piece really why? Is anyone in favor of riding the current build to see where we go and then make a move in off season?
    Calderon should be turned in to an asset at or before the deadline, whenever the best opportunity presents itself.

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote CT2010 wrote: View Post
    You don't have empty pockets, you have 10 million in cap space you can throw at whoever you want to. Isn't that just as good as using Jose to pick up an aging PF with bad knees that has been injured as much as he has played? Or a B tier SF who is paid A tier franchise type dollars?
    Depends on who you are offering the money to, if they will take it, if you have to overpay (history says yes), if they fill a position of need, and if you want that cap space to be the only tool for adding talent besides the $2.5M exception.

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/2013-nba-free-agents

    From the free agents, who is worth $10M? I think Millsap. But then what happens to ED/Amir? At SF, I don't see anyone worth $10M. I like Wright though. What about backup PG? If you go SG what happens to DD or Ross? C? Again, what about ED/Amir/ and now JV?
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  17. #37
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    Quote mike, prague wrote: View Post
    True but I think regarding the whole "trade Calderon" question, if it ends up in anyway it is a going to be a big gamble. Like honestly, everybody here has to agree that nobody on the current roster drives the team like Jose, as much as I love Lowry and as much as he has shown his passing potencial, you can kind of tell that he is more of a shoot first PG even though he has tried to pass more often recently. The Raptors style is the team first style and that is what Calderon does best and does it as one of the best in the league. If you trade Jose you are gambling that the new guy (Gay?) might become like the previously brought in guys (Marion, Hedo Jerkoglu) and that the team chemistry will fall apart to a larger extent.

    If keep till June then your risking him leaving for nothing obviously and all you can do is hope that he will see a team that hopefully is on the rise (with that team being the Raptors) and him wanting to be a part of it.

    So according to me no matter what Colangelo does it will be a gamble and in the long run people will likely start complaining about how it should have been done in a situation where no decision is necesarily the right one.
    It is not a recipe for success having 2 starting pg's on the team. It's not good asset allocation. I don't happen to feel Jose is a starting pg, on a good team. But of course, he does. We shouldn't re sign him, so we should get something for him. Great guy, great pro, but not the pg I would want on a playoff team, which I believe the raps will be in the future. Lowry is the pg of the future.

  18. #38
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    Because I'd rather play Lowry more. Because Jose won't accept a backup role with less money. If he did, sure, am all for it.

  19. #39
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    Quote kuzzybear wrote: View Post
    The Raptors can put 1 of the 3 best PG combs in the NBA on the floor. Why would anyone want to downgrade that position?
    it is a long season ( injuries )
    it is a long season ( some nights 1 has it and the other doesn't )
    it is a long season ( it is the toughest position to play )
    it is a long career ( Jose has never asked to be moved and seems to like Toronto) ( He might be open to a reasonable new contract to become the Raptor's first lifer)
    Because I want Lowry to play more. Because Jose is unlikely to accept a backup role at a significantly lower salary. If he did, sure, fine, happy to have him as a backup.

  20. #40
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    Quote big boi wrote: View Post
    Because I'd rather play Lowry more. Because Jose won't accept a backup role with less money. If he did, sure, am all for it.

    Yesssss.

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