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Thread: Milwaukee is the team to catch

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic All-Star TRex's Avatar
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    Default Milwaukee is the team to catch

    Looking at the standings, looking at who the Raps could possibly unseat for that 8th and final spot. Forget about the Boston Celtics. They're going to make the playoffs. Let's get real here. They're the Boston Celtics

    Milwaukee in my opinion is the team to keep an eye on. They just fired their coach, they're searching for their identity right now, their currently 8th in the standings. And going into the season, i feel like we're a better team than Milwaukee. I think they're a team that the Raps could realistically catch in the standings.

    Raps right now by the way are just 4.5 games back of Milwaukee in the standings. And that makes the game on sunday very IMPORTANT.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    I got the Bulls and LAL games circled on my calendar. Really anticiapatin those 2 games potentially huge confidence builders for team ownership and staff.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Hotshot's Avatar
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    I agree with you, which is why the next game against the Bucks is really important. Other then their guards, the Bucks are quite a mediocre team. Having a healthy JV and playing a healthy Bargnani right (meaning he comes off the bench or gets glued to the bench when he suck) should be enough to overtake them but then this team is going to be eaten alive by Miami if they make it.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
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    Funny. I was just about to post something similar. Looking at he standings, there really seems to be a top 8 and bottom 8 to the division (at least this far in). Should be interesting to see if we can jump into the top tier.

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    You gotta stop 3 guys on the Bucks (maybe 2.5): Ellis, Jennings, and Dunleavy. Everyone else will stop themselves unless you leave them wide open, but those three guys are capable of heating right up and hitting shots over whatever D you throw at them, so you have to limit their opportunities early. I'd actually like to see Casey experiment with starting Lowry and Calderon together to get a bit more quickness on the court in the 1st quarter--neither DD nor Fields have the lateral quicks to keep up with Ellis. On the other hand, DeMar could absolutely abuse Ellis in the post if they can get him the ball down there.

    Should be an interesting game, and a Raptors win as long as Jennings and Ellis don't have beast-mode games.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Mal's Avatar
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    I love that we have a shot at making the playoffs. It's fun to think about. But I think I'd rather have us throw it at the end, and get 9th place so we can give our pick up now. I don't want to have to worry about giving it up in the future with a better draft class to work with. We will undoubtedly get smoked in the first round anyways.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie LC009's Avatar
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    Quote Mal wrote: View Post
    I'd rather have us throw it at the end, and get 9th place so we can give our pick up now. I don't want to have to worry about giving it up in the future with a better draft class to work with.
    In theory, that makes sense. However, if we can make it into the playoffs this year, despite the awful start, the chances of us making it in the next five years are likely just as good or even better (with our young players developing, the East being weak, and the Celtics getting really old). If we make it into the playoffs for the next five (or is it six??) years, we only give up whatever pick we get, whether it's 1st overall or 30th overall.

    That's why personally, I have no problems with us making it this year, even if we get smoked by Miami.

    Plus, once we know for sure that the pick is ours, we can trade it, if a good deal comes up.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    In the end, we're exactly where most of us hoped we would be before the season started. MIL looks like the most likely dropout from current playoff teams. Frankly I wasn't buying their success. I'm not surprised Skiles resigned because I expected him to get fired this year anyway.

    We also have to keep beating up on bad teams though and stay ahead of Philly, and Detroit (if they keepplaying well). It's not just about catching teams....

    Safe to say Miami, NYK, Indy, Chi, BKL, Boston and Atlanta are all pretty safe bets. (Though I'm still amazed at Atlanta's success and wonder if they may drop a few spots). Charlotte, CLE, WAS, ORL all seem safe bets to miss. Orlando clearly had a stronger start than they should have. So we're fighting with MIL, DET and Philly...I wouldn't hate to miss the playoffs, in fact I'd probably be happier than missing them, but my brain keeps telling me to want the same thing as Mal: 9th spot, by like a game or two at the most, trade the pick this year(in what looks like the biggest crapshoot draft since Kenyon Martin's year) and really make the youngsters hungry to improve a lot in the offseason. Sometimes that can make a team hungrier than just squeaking in....though I admit not getting the playoff experience means even if our regular season record is much better next year (44?45? wins), we'll probably get creamed in the playoffs. It's almost always the case that 1st time playoff teams get killed.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    From a long term stand point, I understand the logic that it's better to miss the playoffs this year, but I don't really buy it, and it's really only a small consolation if we don't end up playing in the second season.

    Getting good players in the draft is more about scouting and luck than what position you draft in. Yes, all things considered a lower pick is better than a higher pick, but there is always good value to be found in the draft if you scout well, and if you don't lower picks don't really help you anyway (Edit: except in the rare cases where you get a lebron, or a d. rose, but there's luck involved their as well as you have to win the lottery).

    I think the whole "maybe it's better not to make the playoffs and lose our pick this year" comes from our expectation that we probably weren't likely to make the playoffs. What if, all other things being equal, we were expected to be a lock for the playoffs (6th-7th) but had the same record, and the same situation with the draft pick? Would we be saying, "well actually we don't want to make the playoffs and it's better that we are under performing" or "These guys better get it together, get some momentum and get back into the playoffs"?

    I always think you want your team to be performing at the highest level possible, because mental focus is a skill that has to be practiced and developed just as much as a mid range jumper or a baby hook. Every possession of every game is an opportunity for the players to practice and ingrain that mental focus. I think there's way more value for the organisation by playing their way into the playoffs than a draft pick this year or next year. Although this is only one person's opinion.
    Last edited by ezz_bee; Sat Jan 12th, 2013 at 02:49 PM.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    But I'm very excited about the game tomorrow. I really feel like it's a big test for the raptors. If they lose it will definitely raise doubts about whether they have what it takes to really challenge for a playoff spot. I am expecting them to play well, and hopefully they can get a win.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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    Raptors Republic Starter themasao's Avatar
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    I always think you want your team to be performing at the highest level possible, because mental focus is a skill that has to be practiced and developed just as much as a mid range jumper or a baby hook. Every possession of every game is an opportunity for the players to practice and ingrain that mental focus. I think there's way more value for the organisation by playing their way into the playoffs than a draft pick this year or next year. Although this is only one person's opinion.
    Very nicely put. And I think this is also part of the answer to another thread that was asking what caused the early season collapse. What's the main difference between the current win streak and the former losing streak?

    Without Ignoring the easier schedule and so on, I think what ezz_bee is saying here rings true for the current success of the team -- mental focus is at an all-season high, and it was at an all-season low when Amir was tossing his mouthpeice etc. back in Portland.

    (Incidentally, I also think that AA brought a lot of intangibles back to the team when he returned from injury - great preparation, mental focus/composure, high energy - it's really easy to forget about these things, and really hard to win without them.)

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    Here's a thought regarding making the playoffs: let's say we make the playoffs and thus get the 16th overall pick. And let's say the draft occurs and nobody interesting falls to us. We could, in theory, trade that 2013 pick to OKC and get our future pick back. I also think it makes sense from OKC's perspective: they may not see anything from that pick until 2018 (especially if the Raptors look to be on the rise), so a top 16 draft pick, even during a weak draft, is the highest pick they're likely to make for a long time. Plus their needs are totally different from Toronto's, so they may find a useful NBA-ready roleplayer in the draft, who wouldn't be particularly interesting to a rebuilding team like Toronto.

    I'm not sure if there's any league restrictions to why you couldn't make a trade like this... you're giving up a first-rounder but getting your own future first-rounder back in the process. At the very least, we can draft the player that OKC wants and then immediately flip them.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    From a long term stand point, I understand the logic that it's better to miss the playoffs this year, but I don't really buy it, and it's really only a small consolation if we don't end up playing in the second season.

    Getting good players in the draft is more about scouting and luck than what position you draft in. Yes, all things considered a lower pick is better than a higher pick, but there is always good value to be found in the draft if you scout well, and if you don't lower picks don't really help you anyway (Edit: except in the rare cases where you get a lebron, or a d. rose, but there's luck involved their as well as you have to win the lottery).

    I think the whole "maybe it's better not to make the playoffs and lose our pick this year" comes from our expectation that we probably weren't likely to make the playoffs. What if, all other things being equal, we were expected to be a lock for the playoffs (6th-7th) but had the same record, and the same situation with the draft pick? Would we be saying, "well actually we don't want to make the playoffs and it's better that we are under performing" or "These guys better get it together, get some momentum and get back into the playoffs"?

    I always think you want your team to be performing at the highest level possible, because mental focus is a skill that has to be practiced and developed just as much as a mid range jumper or a baby hook. Every possession of every game is an opportunity for the players to practice and ingrain that mental focus. I think there's way more value for the organisation by playing their way into the playoffs than a draft pick this year or next year. Although this is only one person's opinion.
    I also want them to perform at the highest level possible. I don't want them to tank to go out of the playoffs, or for the momentum built to fall apart. I think it would also be extraordinary to expect the team to continue to win games at a .769 (10-3) clip, and so they should level off to some degree. I want them to keep playing well, win maybe 38 or 39 games, and see where that lands us. Again, I'd be happy if we make the playoffs, but still part of me wants to get rid of that pick in this year's horrible draft.

  14. #14
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    I can't stress enough how my desire to lose this pick this year has nothing to do with not expecting to make the playoffs, but rather how shitty I think this draft class could be. I don't think anyone in it will present much help, and I'd like to have the 2014 pick, if not to draft, also as a trade chip. I guarantee you teams are asking for 2014 picks back in trades this year, not for the coming draft, because not only Andrew Wiggins, but Jabari Parker as well could be better than every player in this class.

    *sidenote on this draft class: does anyone else think if Anthony Bennett was 6'10'' instead of 6'7'' he'd be the #1 pick hands down?
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Sat Jan 12th, 2013 at 06:10 PM.

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    Quote octothorp wrote: View Post
    Here's a thought regarding making the playoffs: let's say we make the playoffs and thus get the 16th overall pick. And let's say the draft occurs and nobody interesting falls to us. We could, in theory, trade that 2013 pick to OKC and get our future pick back. I also think it makes sense from OKC's perspective: they may not see anything from that pick until 2018 (especially if the Raptors look to be on the rise), so a top 16 draft pick, even during a weak draft, is the highest pick they're likely to make for a long time. Plus their needs are totally different from Toronto's, so they may find a useful NBA-ready roleplayer in the draft, who wouldn't be particularly interesting to a rebuilding team like Toronto.

    I'm not sure if there's any league restrictions to why you couldn't make a trade like this... you're giving up a first-rounder but getting your own future first-rounder back in the process. At the very least, we can draft the player that OKC wants and then immediately flip them.
    Interesting. My first thought was that this wouldn't be allowed because you're not allowed to trade away consecutive first-round picks, and the fact that we were getting our own pick back wouldn't really matter. But on further reflection, maybe it's something the league office would allow.

    In this same vein: there's a lot to be said for losing our pick this year apart from its being a weak draft. As the situation stands right now, we can't trade any first round picks until 2020 (because the latest the pick could potentially go to OKC is 2018, we can't trade our 2019 pick either). That lack of trade flexibility is a bit of a liability.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote tkfu wrote: View Post
    Interesting. My first thought was that this wouldn't be allowed because you're not allowed to trade away consecutive first-round picks, and the fact that we were getting our own pick back wouldn't really matter. But on further reflection, maybe it's something the league office would allow.

    In this same vein: there's a lot to be said for losing our pick this year apart from its being a weak draft. As the situation stands right now, we can't trade any first round picks until 2020 (because the latest the pick could potentially go to OKC is 2018, we can't trade our 2019 pick either). That lack of trade flexibility is a bit of a liability.
    I believe they would.

    Golden State attempted to negotiate with Utah before the coin flip last year to ease the restrictions in their favour on the draft pick. Last year it was top 7 protected. If they had lost the flip with Toronto, Utah would have picked 8th and Toronto 7th. In the end, Utah wanted too much and Golden State had lady luck on their side anyways.
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    Raptors Republic Rookie StaytheCourse's Avatar
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    I agree both Philly and Detroit have to be held at bay. A win today against the Bucks is absolutely essential! My feeling is we'll need to be a first time playoff team sometime so it might as well be now.

    Still just the fact of competing for a spot would be a consolation in that we had such a brutal early schedule and took some very tough losses.
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    Raptors Republic Rookie vino's Avatar
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    two points:

    1. I like Milwaukee roster; there is more talent than two guards. Whether they are better than our Raps remains to be seen. Theoretically, we need only one of their two best players to have a night off and a strong D from Lowry to stop the other one... and we're fine. We'll see very shortly how it plays out on the court. I like our chances today playing at home against a team who's coach has recently quit on them, especially taken into account our recent success.

    2. This year's draft may be weak... and the next one a lot stronger, but the real question is how picks 5-15 compare between these (or any other) two drafts, because that's where the Raps are likely to pick any way you look at it. 2014 may have 2-3 stars... but how strong will the other kids be? Point is, I'd rather see our team winning as many games as possible, just because it brings a smile on my face. Let the balls figure themselves out.

    going to watch the game; hope its a close one, which we win. go raps!

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    Raptors Republic All-Star TRex's Avatar
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    Can't express how disappointed i am with the Raps performance today. I wish every player on this team plays as hard as Amir and Ed.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    It was pretty brutal when I saw them come out I was like dam Raps getting it going early, and with recent games when they played like this it was a certain win, maintaining defensive pressure and the bench being solid as always... the defense wasnt thaaat great but it was good enough that if the bench put together even half of their usual output rather than nothing at all it was a Raps win easy.

    Casey couldn't rest any of the starters and when Jose iced his ankle and came back in he stopped looking for his own shot, very peculiar game but o well they happen pack it up and go beat the Nets for the first time this season. I swear we better beat LAL lol....

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