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  1. #1
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Default 7 down, 1 to go

    Hypothesis: We are one piece away from numerous post season appearances

    Having numerous opportunities to see Ed Davis and Amir Johnson together has made it obvious
    that they both deserve a future with the Raptors. When you add in Jonas Valanciunas to the mix
    you now get the most active, solid, rebounding, hustling, defensively minded, PnR effecient, 80% free throw shooting, still developing bigs in the NBA

    I believe I have written this or something similar before but it is not out of the question to have the three of them playing 30+ minutes a night, each averaging close to a double double per night.

    Ed Davis as a starter this season (nowhere near his prime) 12.5pts 7.5 rebs 1blks
    Amir Johnson as a starter this season (near or at prime) 18.3pts 10.8 rebs 1blk
    Jonas Valanciunas (stats adjusted to 30 minutes) (nowhere near his prime) 10.5pts 7.5rebs 2blks

    DeMar DeRozan playing small forward with Terrence Ross starting at SG
    and Landry Fields splitting time off the bench will be just fine. Landry needs to heal and get the summer off
    to really get that shot fixed. Terrence just needs to develop, but his prowess on the defensive end will keep him on the floor.

    Jose Calderon is earning the right to stick around. 12.4ppg and 10.2 assists with a 5 to 1 assist to turnover ratio. I say we keep him. Or trade for someone like him. The way this team is constructed requires a floor general like Jose.

    In an 8 man rotation Lowry is the odd man out. I love his game, I love him. He genuinely looks like he is trying to slow down his game and become a facilitator. I applaud him for trying to change his game in order to allow the team to win. However, he is at his best when he is attacking getting up in peoples grill, and coming off a screen and drilling a three with that cocky swagger. The man has lost his mojo.

    The catch.

    If Lowry figures it out great we keep and Jose is a great trade chip.

    If Lowry doesn't figure it out great he is a starting PG capable of big numbers that would fit great on a team that has a wing facilitator and is a high value low cost trade chip.

    I guess what I am really saying guys is we don't need a Rudy Gay. We just need some time to let this rebuild play out. An 18 million dollar quick fix is not a long term solution, and he doesn't fit this team as he provides NOTHING that DeRozan can't on won't in the very near future.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    Hypothesis: We are one piece away from numerous post season appearances

    Having numerous opportunities to see Ed Davis and Amir Johnson together has made it obvious
    that they both deserve a future with the Raptors. When you add in Jonas Valanciunas to the mix
    you now get the most active, solid, rebounding, hustling, defensively minded, PnR effecient, 80% free throw shooting, still developing bigs in the NBA

    I believe I have written this or something similar before but it is not out of the question to have the three of them playing 30+ minutes a night, each averaging close to a double double per night.

    Ed Davis as a starter this season (nowhere near his prime) 12.5pts 7.5 rebs 1blks
    Amir Johnson as a starter this season (near or at prime) 18.3pts 10.8 rebs 1blk
    Jonas Valanciunas (stats adjusted to 30 minutes) (nowhere near his prime) 10.5pts 7.5rebs 2blks

    DeMar DeRozan playing small forward with Terrence Ross starting at SG
    and Landry Fields splitting time off the bench will be just fine. Landry needs to heal and get the summer off
    to really get that shot fixed. Terrence just needs to develop, but his prowess on the defensive end will keep him on the floor.

    Jose Calderon is earning the right to stick around. 12.4ppg and 10.2 assists with a 5 to 1 assist to turnover ratio. I say we keep him. Or trade for someone like him. The way this team is constructed requires a floor general like Jose.

    In an 8 man rotation Lowry is the odd man out. I love his game, I love him. He genuinely looks like he is trying to slow down his game and become a facilitator. I applaud him for trying to change his game in order to allow the team to win. However, he is at his best when he is attacking getting up in peoples grill, and coming off a screen and drilling a three with that cocky swagger. The man has lost his mojo.

    The catch.

    If Lowry figures it out great we keep and Jose is a great trade chip.

    If Lowry doesn't figure it out great he is a starting PG capable of big numbers that would fit great on a team that has a wing facilitator and is a high value low cost trade chip.

    I guess what I am really saying guys is we don't need a Rudy Gay. We just need some time to let this rebuild play out. An 18 million dollar quick fix is not a long term solution, and he doesn't fit this team as he provides NOTHING that DeRozan can't on won't in the very near future.
    Great, great post Thead. +1 on anything, but, you can't help but wonder how good we get with Rudy Gay as well. Might be $18 million, but that's a potential all-star with lots of room to grow.

  3. #3
    Raptors Republic Starter OzRapFan's Avatar
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    I want to get Gay..... Wait a minute..

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    Quote OzRapFan wrote: View Post
    I want to get Gay..... Wait a minute..

  5. #5
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    I guess what I am really saying guys is we don't need a Rudy Gay. We just need some time to let this rebuild play out. An 18 million dollar quick fix is not a long term solution, and he doesn't fit this team as he provides NOTHING that DeRozan can't on won't in the very near future.
    Gay and DeRozan might be putting up similar numbers right now, but make no mistake about it, Gay provides a LOT more than what DeRozan provides. Defense, outside shooting, shot-creation, and closing games, just to name a few.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    the missing person is the leader that brings those 7 pieces together every team has the "leader" figure that can calm everyone down get them riled up, this person isn't even necessarily the "closer"/superstar player either. Raps don't have that. Demar shows signs like he is but sometimes he goes so quiet, and its definitely not Bargnani. The team has no one to follow in big close games besides Casey but he can only inspire them in huddles not play time.

  7. #7
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    I think you have a borderline playoff team, at best, with that rotation. JV, ED, AJ are all solid bigs. None are spectacular, but I wouldn't be against having any of them in a rotation. However, of the TR, DD, LF trio, none of them has a consistent three ball.

    You can't have both wings unable to shoot the three. Look at the spacing issues Memphis has and how teams that can defend on the interior can lock them down. Z-Bo and Gasol are both way better than any of the Toronto bigs, as well, and Gay and Conley both shoot the three better than anyone on Toronto other than Lowry (and maybe Calderon, if teams give him space, as he can't get the shot off consistently one on one).

    All of the players individually there are between good and passable, but the combination of them just does not work. If Toronto wants to roll with JV / ED / AJ up front, they need wings that can shoot from 3, and if they want to roll with their current wings, they need at least one big who can shoot from 3, probably more. This is probably why BC is so infatuated with AB, though the multitudinous flaws with the rest of his game render him a net negative. However if you could swap in a Ryan Anderson / Gallinari / Nowitzki type, that roster could work, but those guys aren't cheap for a reason.

    So I'd say they may be one piece away from a team that defends well enough to lose convincingly in the first round of the playoffs, but what Toronto really needs is to find some wings who can shoot consistently so they aren't playing five guys at the hoop and allowing defenses to compact into the paint or play zone against them. This would also allow them to move away from Calderon at the point to someone with better defense, as the offense would be more naturally balanced.

    Basically, the PG situation is a symptom of the disease, which is lack of shooting.

  8. #8
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    I don't think this team has 7 pieces and it certainly doesn't have the 3 or 4 quality starters or the elite player to go along with them. The Raptors have a lot of "okay" players. The Amir/Ed combo is okay at PF and they've played excellent as of late but it's been a sample size of, what, 15 games? Let's see them do it for 75 (and Amir is already injured again).

    I wouldn't say the Raptors are set at any other position. You would think PG should be fine with Calderon and Lowry but both of those guys need lots of minutes to optimize their talents and they both can't play 35 mins. Every wing on this team (with the exception of Derozan) isn't even replacement level quality. Derozan barely is.

    Valanciunas may be the one guy they have that has elite level talent but he's a couple years away from having an impact.

    Bottom line is that this team has needed to make massive improvements on the perimeter for 6 years. Everyone, including management, knows this and the answer has been guys like Kapono, Fields, Kleiza, Turkoglu, Jamario Moon, Sonny Weems, Alan Anderson, etc. Until the Raps get some elite talent on the perimeter, they are going to struggle to be a below average team.

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    Raptors Republic Starter minks77's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Gay and DeRozan might be putting up similar numbers right now, but make no mistake about it, Gay provides a LOT more than what DeRozan provides. Defense, outside shooting, shot-creation, and closing games, just to name a few.
    +1

    He's also doing his damage on an elite team within a post oriented offence while DeMar has been scoring big on a losing squad with a green light to jack em up.
    LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

  10. #10
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote minks77 wrote: View Post
    +1

    He's also doing his damage on an elite team within a post oriented offence while DeMar has been scoring big on a losing squad with a green light to jack em up.
    Gay leads his team in shot attempts at about 17 a game Zack/Marc 13. He does have a green light too but I do agree his a better talent

  11. #11
    Raptors Republic Rookie vino's Avatar
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    Quote Reinholt wrote: View Post
    I they need at least one big who can shoot from 3, probably more..
    General misconception of Raps fans. They don't. Or should I say... "not necessarily from 3". The Raps need bigs who can shoot. Period. Of course, the further the range - the better, but the notion that it has to be from downtown is just a barrier to overcome on Barny's way out of town. On the same note, I certainly hope Jonas develops and is comfortable with an open jumper from 17-18 feet. He's a good free throw shooter now, so there should be no reason to believe he can't develop this shop. Another two years and he should be fine. By the way, Amir's long 2 look terrible and I'm closing my eyes every time he is ready to release it... but it falls through on a regular basis, so I'm almost convinced. Ed on the other hand... nah, I do not see it yet. Maybe in the future

  12. #12
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    I believe I said they need bigs who can shoot 3s IF they want to stick with their current crop of 3-deficient wings, not in general. It doesn't have to be the bigs, but if nobody on the floor is a credible 3 point threat, the offense collapses as the defense just hangs out in/near the paint.

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