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Thread: You know what? Let's get Josh Smith.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Default You know what? Let's get Josh Smith.

    All from ESPN

    Impact Players Most Likely To Be Moved
    (Ranked from most likely to least likely to be traded)


    1. Josh Smith, F, Hawks
    Smith has been on the trade block for several years, but the Hawks always pull back at the last second. Once again Smith is the talk of the NBA after he was thrown out of practice Tuesday and suspended for Wednesday's game against Brooklyn. His agent says Smith is frustrated, but hasn't demanded a trade.

    The Hawks have been fielding calls, but have been reluctant to trade him because they believe Smith's presence in Atlanta could be a powerful lure for Dwight Howard this summer. But with Howard's situation up in the air, the time seems right for the Hawks and Smith to move on. Dallas, Houston, Boston, Milwaukee, Toronto and the Lakers are all potential suitors. The biggest question is: What is the price tag for a mercurial forward who is entering his prime and will be a free agent this summer?
    Toronto Raptors
    Jose Calderon and Ed Davis to Atlanta; Smith to Toronto.

    (View the deal in ESPN.com's Trade Machine.)

    If the Raptors were willing to offer a package of Calderon (expiring) and Davis for Rudy Gay, as our Marc Stein reported last week, would they do the same for Smith? That would have to tempt the Hawks, who would get a young power forward coming into his own without affecting their cap situation much going forward. But Toronto would probably consider that too much to give up for a player who might bolt for a warmer locale.
    Team needs top end talent. If a know surly player like Lowry can buy in and even be seen fanning calderon after he dropped back to back 3's who to say Josh won't. There's the issue that he might bolt, and he probably will, but lets worry about that when it happens. The league is playing smaller and smaller, and he's the type of player that'd actually fit in really nicely, especially with Val.

    I've long been in the "just say no to Josh" boat but facts are facts and the raps need a serious talent infusion. This is one of our best ways of doing so.

    Worst case scenario he walks, which only leads to us having 13 mil to play with.
    @jerboat

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    love it.

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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    All from ESPN





    Team needs top end talent. If a know surly player like Lowry can buy in and even be seen fanning calderon after he dropped back to back 3's who to say Josh won't. There's the issue that he might bolt, and he probably will, but lets worry about that when it happens. The league is playing smaller and smaller, and he's the type of player that'd actually fit in really nicely, especially with Val.

    I've long been in the "just say no to Josh" boat but facts are facts and the raps need a serious talent infusion. This is one of our best ways of doing so.

    Worst case scenario he walks, which only leads to us having 13 mil to play with.
    The problem is the Raps won't have $13M to play with.

    After trading Davis, they've got $41M guaranteed for next summer. Assuming Kleiza and Gray pick up their options and Lowry's team option is picked up, that leaves Toronto with $4M in cap room (they'd be better off just keeping the MLE as they would be able to offer $5M). Hope the cap goes up $5M and you've got $9M. Amnesty Kleiza and you've got nearly $15M.

    Unless Smith did an extend and trade or you got ATL to throw in a 1st round pick, I think you are basically trading away ED for $3.1M in cap space.... not worth it.

    Considering Smith is miserable in Atlanta because they are not winning, I don't think he would be happy in Toronto.... like, at all.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    I read the same article on my insider but, I was more interested in Danny Granger. I would do a Bargnani/Granger straight up. I think that the Pacers would be interesting in Andrea. David West will be an restricted free agent and the will need some to replace him. They also need help scoring. Danny would be a great fit with Lowry. I know his 29 turning 30 in April. I don't think his game will change much with old age. His a 3 point shooting wing (career .381 3FG). Known to be a good defender as well. I'm not too sure how many years he had left on his contract

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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I read the same article on my insider but, I was more interested in Danny Granger. I would do a Bargnani/Granger straight up. I think that the Pacers would be interesting in Andrea. David West will be an restricted free agent and the will need some to replace him. They also need help scoring. Danny would be a great fit with Lowry. I know his 29 turning 30 in April. I don't think his game will change much with old age. His a 3 point shooting wing (career .381 3FG). Known to be a good defender as well. I'm not too sure how many years he had left on his contract
    Unrestricted.

    Not sure why Indiana wouldn't resign West unless they try to get someone younger like Paul Millsap (who I think will land in Indiana, fwiw). West will have Bird Rights in Indy.

    I'd do Granger for Bargnani though.... in a heart beat.
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    Danny Granger needs conditioning though coming back from a serious injury I would still do the deal though the team is already moving on without Bargs lets make it final. Cant say Im that much of a fan of the Smith Scenario he will depart asap, thing is though having him for a season would be a great trade aset for the team Smoove is legit talent after all.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Unrestricted.

    Not sure why Indiana wouldn't resign West unless they try to get someone younger like Paul Millsap (who I think will land in Indiana, fwiw). West will have Bird Rights in Indy.

    I'd do Granger for Bargnani though.... in a heart beat.
    Here the piece they had on Danny Granger's situation in Indiana.



    4. Danny Granger, F, Pacers
    Granger has missed the entire season with a knee injury, but the Pacers are eyeing his return in late January or early February. If they can get him back into the swing of things quickly -- and get his trade value up -- expect them to try to flip him fast now that Paul George has replaced Granger as the alpha dog of the team.

    Indiana needs a long-term replacement for David West, who becomes an unrestricted free agent this summer. So if the Pacers could get a young power forward or another young point guard for Granger, I would expect them to make a deal.

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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Here the piece they had on Danny Granger's situation in Indiana.



    4. Danny Granger, F, Pacers
    Granger has missed the entire season with a knee injury, but the Pacers are eyeing his return in late January or early February. If they can get him back into the swing of things quickly -- and get his trade value up -- expect them to try to flip him fast now that Paul George has replaced Granger as the alpha dog of the team.

    Indiana needs a long-term replacement for David West, who becomes an unrestricted free agent this summer. So if the Pacers could get a young power forward or another young point guard for Granger, I would expect them to make a deal.
    Thanks for posting.

    I would see Utah as a more likely destination for Granger, to be honest, assuming he comes back healthy. Something like this:
    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b5emqv6

    Then Toronto comes in and fixes the PG situation for Utah with a first rounder or two going back to TO:
    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d4om3op

    I'm not called Trader Matt for nothing you know
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    I really see absolutely no reason to go after a starting PF in a trade this season. Ed has earned his minutes, and when JV comes back Amir will be back to splitting time more between positions.

    The only trade that 100% absolutely needs to happen is whatever trade can rid of us Bargs without doing anything too damaging to the roster, and to cap-flexibility. Not sure Indiana would want a swap for Bargs. I see it more likely they'd want a similar deal to Memphis for Gay, but probably without throwing Ross in. Jose and Ed for Granger...???
    I definitely think that Indiana won't take long term salary, because I believe that they will definitely make a run at Millsap this offseason, that is if they decide that committing to West long term is unwise because of his age. The flip side is that they may get West back at a much better price than going after Millsap.

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    Maybe this is the wrong question to be asking here because it's a bit of a derailment, but why do people feel like the Raps need to make a trade sooner rather than later? Is it because you feel like BC is going to make one anyway with his job on the line, or do you genuinely feel like now is the time? Because personally, I think trading away any of DeRozan, Ross, Davis or Val would be a HUGE mistake unless you're getting a top-15, franchise type player back.

    Looking at the team's current composition, they have those four young players I mentioned above, none of which projects as being a 'lead the team to the promised land' type, but all of whom would be excellent chips in a trade for such a player. They also have a couple of useful role player types with mid-sized contracts in Amir and Fields, and as long as they have over their draft pick this year, they have the option to trade a pick as well. There's also bargs, but frankly I'm going to ignore him for now because we have no idea what his value is. To me, the Raps have an excellent mix of assets for trading for a franchise player.

    So why would you chip away at trading for guys like Gay or Smith or Granger, who likely won't have a significant impact on the team's ability to get out of the first round, when you could wait a bit longer, let your assets appreciate in value, and save them for when a REAL opportunity presents itself?

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    Raptors Republic Starter c_bcm's Avatar
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    Maybe this is the wrong question to be asking here because it's a bit of a derailment, but why do people feel like the Raps need to make a trade sooner rather than later? Is it because you feel like BC is going to make one anyway with his job on the line, or do you genuinely feel like now is the time? Because personally, I think trading away any of DeRozan, Ross, Davis or Val would be a HUGE mistake unless you're getting a top-15, franchise type player back.

    Looking at the team's current composition, they have those four young players I mentioned above, none of which projects as being a 'lead the team to the promised land' type, but all of whom would be excellent chips in a trade for such a player. They also have a couple of useful role player types with mid-sized contracts in Amir and Fields, and as long as they have over their draft pick this year, they have the option to trade a pick as well. There's also bargs, but frankly I'm going to ignore him for now because we have no idea what his value is. To me, the Raps have an excellent mix of assets for trading for a franchise player.

    So why would you chip away at trading for guys like Gay or Smith or Granger, who likely won't have a significant impact on the team's ability to get out of the first round, when you could wait a bit longer, let your assets appreciate in value, and save them for when a REAL opportunity presents itself?
    I agree with all of this.

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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    Maybe this is the wrong question to be asking here because it's a bit of a derailment, but why do people feel like the Raps need to make a trade sooner rather than later? Is it because you feel like BC is going to make one anyway with his job on the line, or do you genuinely feel like now is the time? Because personally, I think trading away any of DeRozan, Ross, Davis or Val would be a HUGE mistake unless you're getting a top-15, franchise type player back.

    Looking at the team's current composition, they have those four young players I mentioned above, none of which projects as being a 'lead the team to the promised land' type, but all of whom would be excellent chips in a trade for such a player. They also have a couple of useful role player types with mid-sized contracts in Amir and Fields, and as long as they have over their draft pick this year, they have the option to trade a pick as well. There's also bargs, but frankly I'm going to ignore him for now because we have no idea what his value is. To me, the Raps have an excellent mix of assets for trading for a franchise player.

    So why would you chip away at trading for guys like Gay or Smith or Granger, who likely won't have a significant impact on the team's ability to get out of the first round, when you could wait a bit longer, let your assets appreciate in value, and save them for when a REAL opportunity presents itself?
    want to take a stab at anything you can see realistically see in the forseeable future? rather depressing isn't it. but honestly you are right, I guess I just have to temper my expectations until the unbelievable happens. Im trying to remain positive and level headed in 2013.
    Last edited by akashsingh; Fri Jan 18th, 2013 at 05:20 PM.

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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    Maybe this is the wrong question to be asking here because it's a bit of a derailment, but why do people feel like the Raps need to make a trade sooner rather than later? Is it because you feel like BC is going to make one anyway with his job on the line, or do you genuinely feel like now is the time? Because personally, I think trading away any of DeRozan, Ross, Davis or Val would be a HUGE mistake unless you're getting a top-15, franchise type player back.

    Looking at the team's current composition, they have those four young players I mentioned above, none of which projects as being a 'lead the team to the promised land' type, but all of whom would be excellent chips in a trade for such a player. They also have a couple of useful role player types with mid-sized contracts in Amir and Fields, and as long as they have over their draft pick this year, they have the option to trade a pick as well. There's also bargs, but frankly I'm going to ignore him for now because we have no idea what his value is. To me, the Raps have an excellent mix of assets for trading for a franchise player.

    So why would you chip away at trading for guys like Gay or Smith or Granger, who likely won't have a significant impact on the team's ability to get out of the first round, when you could wait a bit longer, let your assets appreciate in value, and save them for when a REAL opportunity presents itself?
    You raise good points.

    Given the current composition of the team, I put Gay higher than Smith or Granger. Unless Bargnani (and no young talent or picks) is on his way out in a deal, not feeling Smith or Granger.

    Regarding the bold, there is also risk in that assumption. What if the assets don't appreciate as expected? Man, being a GM is seriously a tough gig.
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    You raise good points.

    Given the current composition of the team, I put Gay higher than Smith or Granger. Unless Bargnani (and no young talent or picks) is on his way out in a deal, not feeling Smith or Granger.

    Regarding the bold, there is also risk in that assumption. What if the assets don't appreciate as expected? Man, being a GM is seriously a tough gig.
    Gay is a great, but I personally think that Josh Smith is a far more productive player. Gay is another case of us getting someone based on his "potential", the reality is that he is a 18pts/6reb for his career player who makes 17 million a year and shoots the same percentage as Andrea Bargnani.

    Smith on the other hand is cheaper, averages 15pts/8reb/2.2blk and is a game changer defensively. He is also just ONE year older than Gay is. Keep in mind that Smith has played as a SF most of his career and would fit in perfectly at the 3 position for the Raps.

    The only reason why Gay would be ranked higher than Smith is because we believe he has that "franchise player potential" (probably because someone gave him a max contract) which we so desperately crave. Given the choice between Smith and Gay, I would go Smith anytime of the day.

    As for his attitude, this recent incident which caused him to be suspended for a game is the first time I have ever heard of Atlanta having problems with him. I don't think you can make a judgement on a players character after one heated incident like that, especially after many solid years of play for the team.
    Last edited by SuperRaptor; Fri Jan 18th, 2013 at 06:10 PM.
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Regarding the bold, there is also risk in that assumption. What if the assets don't appreciate as expected? Man, being a GM is seriously a tough gig.
    100% agree, knowing when to trade your players is like a high stakes game of chicken. As much as we kill BC for his 'win now' gambles, he's done a really good job of drafting players that have very stable NBA value in the form of skillsets coveted at their respective positions:

    Valanciunas: rebounding, defense, and great foul shooting
    Ross: defense and 3-point shooting, with great athleticism
    Davis: rebounding and defense, again with great athleticism if not size/strength (yet)
    DeRozan: mid-range game and ability to get to the line

    I feel like any deal for a franchise player would probably have to include deRozan because a) he's under contract at a reasonable rate and b) you're probably going to have to replace some scoring if you're trading an elite player for him, as well as put some asses in the seats. Now you throw in one of the bigs, maybe a pick or another of the 4 above and an expiring deal or one of Amir and Fields depending on need and you've got an excellent package. The only thing missing really is an expiring deal. In fact you could easilly argue that's equal to or better than than teams got for Bynum, or Howard, or Paul, or Williams, or Melo, or any of the other superstars traded in recent memory.

    To answer Akasingh, the NBA is an extremely fluid league when it comes to star movement. Look at the Deron Williams trade: nobody even saw that coming. Same with Harden. And with the luxury tax penalties getting progressively more restrictive, you're going to see more and more teams unable or unwilling to pay into the tax. As for which stars might be coming down the pipe, the best bet are those players who would need be eligible to sign an extension in the next 2-3 years. John Wall and Kyrie Irving are two examples of players whose teams haven't done a great job of drafting around them (though Wall would have to develop a lot in order to be worthy of a huge trade package, you might be able to get him for cheap if Washington is convinced he won't re-sign). Love seems to be perpetually unhappy in Minny, nobody knows what's going to happen with Bynum, or Howard if the Lakers end up missing the playoffs, etc etc.

    Admittedly most of the players the Raps have a shot at aren't real top-15 type guys (I probably overstepped a bit there, top-25 might be more accurate), or at least won't be when they're acquired. You'd probably have to aim for guys that haven't reached their peak yet but aren't happy with their current situation or need to be dealt because of money issues. I think Harden is the prime example there. There's also the possibility of trading for a very high draft pick if a team is looking at a roster redundancy. The point is, if I'm the GM then I'd rather wait for a superstar than settle for a borderline all-star, especially if it's a borderline all-star that I have to pay like a superstar to keep around.

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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    Maybe this is the wrong question to be asking here because it's a bit of a derailment, but why do people feel like the Raps need to make a trade sooner rather than later? Is it because you feel like BC is going to make one anyway with his job on the line, or do you genuinely feel like now is the time? Because personally, I think trading away any of DeRozan, Ross, Davis or Val would be a HUGE mistake unless you're getting a top-15, franchise type player back.

    Looking at the team's current composition, they have those four young players I mentioned above, none of which projects as being a 'lead the team to the promised land' type, but all of whom would be excellent chips in a trade for such a player. They also have a couple of useful role player types with mid-sized contracts in Amir and Fields, and as long as they have over their draft pick this year, they have the option to trade a pick as well. There's also bargs, but frankly I'm going to ignore him for now because we have no idea what his value is. To me, the Raps have an excellent mix of assets for trading for a franchise player.

    So why would you chip away at trading for guys like Gay or Smith or Granger, who likely won't have a significant impact on the team's ability to get out of the first round, when you could wait a bit longer, let your assets appreciate in value, and save them for when a REAL opportunity presents itself?
    I am not keen for trade which gives away young assests but since 2006 only AB and JC have been here and we really need to move forward without them.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Lark Benson;178460]Maybe this is the wrong question to be asking here because it's a bit of a derailment, but why do people feel like the Raps need to make a trade sooner rather than later? Is it because you feel like BC is going to make one anyway with his job on the line, or do you genuinely feel like now is the time? Because personally, I think trading away any of DeRozan, Ross, Davis or Val would be a HUGE mistake unless you're getting a top-15, franchise type player back.

    Looking at the team's current composition, they have those four young players I mentioned above, none of which projects as being a 'lead the team to the promised land' type, but all of whom would be excellent chips in a trade for such a player. They also have a couple of useful role player types with mid-sized contracts in Amir and Fields, and as long as they have over their draft pick this year, they have the option to trade a pick as well. There's also bargs, but frankly I'm going to ignore him for now because we have no idea what his value is. To me, the Raps have an excellent mix of assets for trading for a franchise player.

    So why would you chip away at trading for guys like Gay or Smith or Granger, who likely won't have a significant impact on the team's ability to get out of the first round, when you could wait a bit longer, let your assets appreciate in value, and save them for when a REAL opportunity presents itself?[/QUOTE

    Just playing devils advocate here, but how many franchise players have been traded away recenty that didn't force their way off their team? Joe Johnson maybe if you want to consider him a franchise talent but I think he's in the same category as Gay and J. Smith. All the true franchise talent you say we should save our youth to trade for forced their way out on their contract year by not agreeing to signing an extension with teams that their team wanted to trade them to. And frankly if you have a true franchise talent and they are not in a contract year then their team is not looking to trade them anyway. So count me on the boat to make a trade sooner than later, as I see no scenario where we could force a true franchise talent to play here via a trade.

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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Just playing devils advocate here, but how many franchise players have been traded away recenty that didn't force their way off their team? Joe Johnson maybe if you want to consider him a franchise talent but I think he's in the same category as Gay and J. Smith. All the true franchise talent you say we should save our youth to trade for forced their way out on their contract year by not agreeing to signing an extension with teams that their team wanted to trade them to. And frankly if you have a true franchise talent and they are not in a contract year then their team is not looking to trade them anyway. So count me on the boat to make a trade sooner than later, as I see no scenario where we could force a true franchise talent to play here via a trade.
    It's not about "forcing" a guy to play here at all, it's about jumping on an opportunity. Again, the Harden trade is a prime example. So is the Deron Williams trade: he didn't force his way out, Jazz management simply preferred to get assets instead of playing the free agency hostage game. That's the big advantage in having assets at different positions: you can trade away a couple and still have enough left in the cupboard to field a competitive team, and that's especially true if you've let them mature and they're ready to contribute consistently around a franchise guy.

    So let me ask you a counter-question: how many of the franchise guys that were traded recently subsequently left the team that traded for them high and dry? They almost always take the extra money and contract year on the table.

    A trade for a borderline all-star like Gay or Granger or Smith is going to be available every year (that's why they're on the block after all), but ask yourself, why make the deal THIS year? It's likely not going to catapult the team into the playoffs, so what's the point? All you're doing by being impatient is handcuffing yourself down the line.

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    I'm not going to get into his talent at all, because obviously he's got all-star talent.

    I really don't see his kind of attitude fitting in too well. As Matt said, he seems to have lost it a bit just because of recent struggles, with a team that's in a pretty good spot about halfway through the season. He's got a track record like that where he seems to have been a difficult player to manage. Again I just don't see the overall benefit to this move. This would be a "BC's trying to save his job" move. We're not a great team, and at best it gives us a better chance at the 8-spot this year. Also, Davis is developing nicely so far, and I would only trade him for a piece that helps beyond this season. And if Jose goes out in the deal, it doesn't give us much more cap-space this offseason, and can't see a situation where Smith re-signs. And if he does, it's likely because management is making the wrong choice, and catering to his ego, paying him big (max?) money, and likely just creating another situation where he'll be a problem for the team whenever he's unhappy.

    No thank you...

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    Burksy!

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