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Thread: Is anyone on the Raptors roster truly indispensable for the right trade ?

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    Default Is anyone on the Raptors roster truly indispensable for the right trade ?

    This past week has been hard on most Raptor fans. Games against Milwaukee, Chicago and Philadelphia should have been wins. Many comments on this site suggest blowing the team up; while others say give the team time to develop.
    Injuries have hurt but have also hurt many NBA teams who still maintain winning records. The team appears to be playing hard but always falter in the end.
    Some folks are hard on Bargnani suggesting that the team is better without him. Calderon gets hot like he always does thus making a decision to move him difficult. DeRozan is resigned for 4 years without truly knowing whether he is the real deal. Fields has a ridiculous contract. Lowry has 1 year left after this one. Valanciunas is a prospect but should not be starting.

    Honestly if the Raptors had won a majority of the games in which they blew big leads or lost in OT or were deprived by NBA refs we would be pretty happy with their record. However at this stage things do not look good for the playoffs or at least fighting for a playoff berth. No 1st round pick in 2013. So we are essentially left going forward with what we have except for the expiring contract of Calderon.

    What is this team lacking? Toughness,size, veteran leadership, and talent??? I see players from other teams that may be available and would help the Raptors. Gay,T.Evans, Cousins ???, J.Smith, Gasol, Orlando Magic (everybody).
    We need to hit a home run in terms of a blockbuster deal.
    Is anyone on the Raptors roster truly indispensable for the right trade ?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Is anyone on this team trully indispensable? No. Val's price tag should be ridiculously expensive though.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    Is anyone on this team trully indispensable? No. Val's price tag should be ridiculously expensive though.
    id add T.Ross to the ridiculously expensive list..

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    Raptors Republic Rookie robert parrish 00's Avatar
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    Default No JV, ross or ED

    For me my untouchable list would be JV and ED. Ross for the right player.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    No one should be indispensable, JV included. There are not a lot of players on the roster that they should be shopping in my opinion, but it takes a very special player to be deemed completely untradeable. Every player has their price. However that doesn't mean the Raptors should be rushing out to make a "blockbuster" deal either.

    The team has proven itself to be better than their early season slide but not as good as the hot streak that followed. That is right around where most realistic predictions had them prior to the season; somewhere in the 9-12 range of the Eastern Conference. The talks about taking a home run swing to "save the season" are silly, because frankly, there is no season to save. Moving some combination of Calderon/Davis/DeRozan/Ross to get Rudy Gay doesn't guarantee the team even makes the playoffs, let alone being anything else but first round fodder for a top seed. But it does hinder the team in terms of financial flexibility for the next three seasons, and it removes the option of using some of those assets down the road to upgrade the roster when the team is closer to actually competing.
    Last edited by Fully; Sat Jan 19th, 2013 at 11:22 AM.

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    For the right price, nobody is indispensable.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

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    If you're trading JV, it has to be for a 'no downside' situation. Specifically a guy who's young, healthy, no attitude issues, lots of years of salary control at a good price. Those guys listed in the OP (Gasol, Smith, Evans, Cousins, Gay) do not fit that list, and honestly I wouldn't trade JV for any of them.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    JV is basically untouchable. The right trade in his case would be getting an established franchise player, and a true one at that.

    I don't think anyone else is off limits, and there are tons of scenarios where I would be ok with trading many of our players. My opinion on some:
    -Ed: playing well enough that it would be hard to find a trade for him. It seems he's not enough to get someone like Gay, or maybe Granger, just with Jose. His value might actually be higher around the draft and start of free agency if he plays well through the end of the season.
    -Ross: Easily available in a deal that would bring a legit starter (on a reasonable deal, so no Gay talk). I think the thing that will keep him from being traded will be the same as in Ed's case...teams will try to get maybe both Ed and Ross, or JV and Ed, or Ross and JV, justsome combination of a couple of our more promising young players that would be too costly a trade.
    -Demar: with his contract situation, I frankly don't see teams really asking for him in trades until next season at the earliest. Untouchable by default for awhile because of it.
    -Lowry: not sure what the future holds for him. Given his contract situation, I'm pretty sure BC saw getting him as a low-risk, high-reward type move. If he grows a bit more as a player, he could be a long-term solution at PG, but if he doesn't, he could be a huge piece in a trade to bring a quality talent, possibly all-star, to the team.

    So, while I think most guys are available in the right deal, I find it unlikely a helpful deal comes along during the season. I think management should do what they can to move Bargs, and hopefully not have to give up anything valuable in the process. After that I see no reason to make any moves until the offseason, when the team can deal more from a position of strength. Right now I'm sure all the deals involving our younger pieces are from other teams hoping the Raps will do something stupid.

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    Raptors Republic Starter albertan_10's Avatar
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    IMO Calderons hot streak is the perfect time to send him out. He is in his 30's and th

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    I think it's not wise to overvalue young bigs. JV is good, but for every guy that turns into a Tyson Chandler later on, there's also a Kwame Brown. Which is to say JV is valuable but not untouchable. From the list above, I'd probably move him in a deal for Cousins (you have extreme upside and downside with Cousins, but if you get him right, he's probably the best center in the league). I'd also fire DC immediately if I got Cousins, because he's not going to be the right coach for that team. Keep in mind Cousins has had Westphal and Smart as coaches (hardly an NBA heavy hitter list), and if you could snag someone like a JVG / SVG / Sloan, he might have a very different career.

    Again, Cousins has "champion" upside. None of those other guys do, at least not as the number one on the team, so I wouldn't be moving JV for them.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Reinholt wrote: View Post
    I think it's not wise to overvalue young bigs. JV is good, but for every guy that turns into a Tyson Chandler later on, there's also a Kwame Brown. Which is to say JV is valuable but not untouchable. From the list above, I'd probably move him in a deal for Cousins (you have extreme upside and downside with Cousins, but if you get him right, he's probably the best center in the league). I'd also fire DC immediately if I got Cousins, because he's not going to be the right coach for that team. Keep in mind Cousins has had Westphal and Smart as coaches (hardly an NBA heavy hitter list), and if you could snag someone like a JVG / SVG / Sloan, he might have a very different career.

    Again, Cousins has "champion" upside. None of those other guys do, at least not as the number one on the team, so I wouldn't be moving JV for them.
    I don't exactly understand what your logic is for getting Cousins. Yes he's more obviously talented than JV, but I don't think the gap is very big. I also think it's poor form to compare JV to Chandler or Brown at all. The only reason he was being compared to Chandler was because Casey just coached Chandler in Dallas, and JV is a true big in size who is also pretty mobile. JV has far more offensive upside than those guys. Maybe not as much as Cousins, but I'll say it again.....JV will probably be as good or a better player in all other areas of the game while also bringing all the intangibles you want, while Cousins brings none. Why roll the dice when the only benefit could be the handful more points Cousins gets you?
    People say talent wins, but that's only true if the team plays like a team. I'm not sure I'd even want to chance Cousins if we could keep JV...his insanity puts me off that much.

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    Raptors Republic Starter albertan_10's Avatar
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    That's what I get for replyin on my phone. Anyway, Jose is in his 30's and though he's a class act and overall good guy, he just doesn't fit. Even if we lose more games after he's gone, we would have assets and potentially picks back from him.

    The team is actually not built too bad. What I think it's missing is a tough minded leader who doesn't let 19 point losses disappear. He puts his foot on their throat when they're down. We have nice pieces but we are still missing a key ingredient.

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    Quote albertan_10 wrote: View Post
    The team is actually not built too bad. What I think it's missing is a tough minded leader who doesn't let 19 point losses disappear. He puts his foot on their throat when they're down. We have nice pieces but we are still missing a key ingredient.
    Disagree here. Toronto has zero wings (other than perhaps Ross, who has not had a chance to play much yet) who are even replacement level players.

    This creates all sorts of knock-on issues throughout the team, and makes life harder for both PGs and the bigs. The team will continue to linger in the bottom half of the east until they can fix this. Part of the reason for the controversies about the Raptors are due to this; for instance, if I was asked "which PG can consistently lead the Raptors to the playoffs, Calderon or Lowry?", the answer is "Neither until you find some wings who can play."

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    Quote Reinholt wrote: View Post
    Disagree here. Toronto has zero wings (other than perhaps Ross, who has not had a chance to play much yet) who are even replacement level players.

    This creates all sorts of knock-on issues throughout the team, and makes life harder for both PGs and the bigs. The team will continue to linger in the bottom half of the east until they can fix this. Part of the reason for the controversies about the Raptors are due to this; for instance, if I was asked "which PG can consistently lead the Raptors to the playoffs, Calderon or Lowry?", the answer is "Neither until you find some wings who can play."
    Wow, just wow. I would have maybe agreed with you more if you didn't throw that Ross comment in. It shows me you don't really pay attention to the game. Ross is a promising shooter. His D is solid for a rook. His athleticism is at a very high, possibly elite level....those are all his skills. He has zero ballhandling ability...far far worse than Fields, Demar or Alan. He makes the weakest passes that lead to frequent turnovers.. He has no post-up game, no dribble drive game, and basically either takes an open jumper (most of his made shots are wide open by the way), or gets a free dunk to score.
    Now, I like Ross, and he has upside to be better than any other wing on our roster, and he has a smoothness to his game that's nice to see, even when he screws up his dribble drives, but our other wings are not, as you call them not "even replacement level players".

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Raptorboy's Avatar
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    Quote albertan_10 wrote: View Post
    That's what I get for replyin on my phone. Anyway, Jose is in his 30's and though he's a class act and overall good guy, he just doesn't fit. Even if we lose more games after he's gone, we would have assets and potentially picks back from him.

    The team is actually not built too bad. What I think it's missing is a tough minded leader who doesn't let 19 point losses disappear. He puts his foot on their throat when they're down. We have nice pieces but we are still missing a key ingredient.
    I agree with you about needing toughness. We do have toughness in AA and he's the last man on our roster...go figure?
    As for Calderon I disagree. I think he fits as good as anyone and I see Lowry as the guy who doesn't fit. The ball moves well through Jose and he's a perfect fit to teach the game to our youth. Even if we do trade him we won't get much in return. Better to extend him and trade him later...say in about 3 years after he teaches a younger back-up the finer points of the position. I like the trajectory we are on now. Continue developing the young's and scoop up a top free agent in the next couple years. MLSE broke the bank for the Blue Jays...hopefully the Raptors will be as lucky!!!

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    Raptors Republic Starter Pele's Avatar
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    Quote Raptorfanatic wrote: View Post
    This past week has been hard on most Raptor fans. Games against Milwaukee, Chicago and Philadelphia should have been wins. Many comments on this site suggest blowing the team up; while others say give the team time to develop.
    Injuries have hurt but have also hurt many NBA teams who still maintain winning records. The team appears to be playing hard but always falter in the end.
    Some folks are hard on Bargnani suggesting that the team is better without him. Calderon gets hot like he always does thus making a decision to move him difficult. DeRozan is resigned for 4 years without truly knowing whether he is the real deal. Fields has a ridiculous contract. Lowry has 1 year left after this one. Valanciunas is a prospect but should not be starting.

    Honestly if the Raptors had won a majority of the games in which they blew big leads or lost in OT or were deprived by NBA refs we would be pretty happy with their record. However at this stage things do not look good for the playoffs or at least fighting for a playoff berth. No 1st round pick in 2013. So we are essentially left going forward with what we have except for the expiring contract of Calderon.

    What is this team lacking? Toughness,size, veteran leadership, and talent??? I see players from other teams that may be available and would help the Raptors. Gay,T.Evans, Cousins ???, J.Smith, Gasol, Orlando Magic (everybody).
    We need to hit a home run in terms of a blockbuster deal.
    Is anyone on the Raptors roster truly indispensable for the right trade ?
    Demar and Jose to the Grizzlies for Gay

    Andrea to the Timberwolves for JJ Barea and Derrick Williams.

    Both trades work salary wise.

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    Why exactly would the Timberwolves want a far worse version of the player they already have, though? You don't need AB when you have Kevin Love.

    Edit: I think my view on Ross was fair - he's young and raw, but has potential. I think you just agreed to that; there's a lot of his game that needs work (specifically ball skills), but a lot to like (D and shooting), so the question is how that develops. He also hasn't had enough playing time to have a meaningful sample to evaluate him at the NBA level.

    As to the rest, I think it's actually pretty accurate. None of the DeMar, Fields, Anderson, or Pietrus tandem is going to play a major role on a playoff team. Also, DeMar and Fields are super-overpaid for what they bring to the table. None of those guys are stars, and a lot of them are sub-average. Can you name any team in the NBA that you wouldn't swap SGs and SFs with if you are the Raptors?
    Last edited by Reinholt; Sat Jan 19th, 2013 at 01:01 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Pele's Avatar
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    Quote Reinholt wrote: View Post
    Why exactly would the Timberwolves want a far worse version of the player they already have, though? You don't need AB when you have Kevin Love.
    Both AB and KL can spread the floor (at least in theory, in Andrea's case) and give Rubio room to work his magic. Besides, the Timbers are looking for someone to take Williams off their hands, and the Raps would need Barea to fill in for Jose.

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    Yes, but the Wolves are already rolling out Love and Pekovic, and I don't think anyone can argue Bargnani is going to play the 3. I just see only downside to taking on a big salary for a much worse and duplicative player for the Wolves here... Why not at least trade Williams for just a pick?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote Reinholt wrote: View Post
    Yes, but the Wolves are already rolling out Love and Pekovic, and I don't think anyone can argue Bargnani is going to play the 3. I just see only downside to taking on a big salary for a much worse and duplicative player for the Wolves here... Why not at least trade Williams for just a pick?
    Love's out 1month or 2, Pek may leave after this season. & Kahn is stupid.. all reason why Minni Is a logical place for Bargs to land..

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