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Thread: Andrea to Bobcats?

  1. #81
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    That's just it, "best" is such a subjective term. It's not just individual basketball skills that determines the "best" available player, but also attitude, potential for improvement (and ultimate projected ceiling), age, injury history, position (both scarcity of talent and team need), fit with current roster (does he need to contribute now, or can he be a multi-year project with current depth), etc...
    When it comes to Drummond, even if Colangelo didn't think he was the BPA, he must've realized how a player with Drummond's potential would be valued amongst other GMs. I wonder if drafting Drummond (for the sole purpose of trading him) even entered Colangelo's mind.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  2. #82
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    When it comes to Drummond, even if Colangelo didn't think he was the BPA, he must've realized how a player with Drummond's potential would be valued amongst other GMs. I wonder if drafting Drummond (for the sole purpose of trading him) even entered Colangelo's mind.
    I think that's why so many of us were expecting him to draft Drummond, then flip him to Houston for one of their picks (#10 or #11), as well as another asset. There's a chance that Ross still could have been drafted a few picks later, though of course there were rumors that he may have been drafted in that range, so who knows. I know we all crap on BC, but I'd be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt that he at least looked into the possible scenarios of doing just that. I hope!

  3. #83
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Anyone who doubts Ross to be the right pick for the Raptors has no semblance of basketball.

    Ross looks to be one of the most dynamic, talented, and athletic players in his draft. I was happy with him being a smooth 3 point threat, peppered with some hassling defense. It turns out that his jumpshot is just as advertised, his perimeter defense is already the best on the team, AND his effortless athleticism is so apparent with every rebound, and every ferocious dunk, which has become a staple in his game.

    Our weakest position is clearly the wing position. Drummond could not possibly be a trade commodity for the Raptors, playing 14 minutes a game behind Ed, Amir, Bargs, and Val. Ross on the other hand is a necessary component to our team, and will continue to mature well into the team's dynamic.

    Ross is a lot rarer of a player than you guys seem to lead on.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

  4. #84
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Anyone who doubts Ross to be the right pick for the Raptors has no semblance of basketball.

    Ross looks to be one of the most dynamic, talented, and athletic players in his draft. I was happy with him being a smooth 3 point threat, peppered with some hassling defense. It turns out that his jumpshot is just as advertised, his perimeter defense is already the best on the team, AND his effortless athleticism is so apparent with every rebound, and every ferocious dunk, which has become a staple in his game.

    Our weakest position is clearly the wing position. Drummond could not possibly be a trade commodity for the Raptors, playing 14 minutes a game behind Ed, Amir, Bargs, and Val. Ross on the other hand is a necessary component to our team, and will continue to mature well into the team's dynamic.

    Ross is a lot rarer of a player than you guys seem to lead on.
    Ross is a quality player with a bright future, but what he does is not particularily rare (well maybe in Toronto where 1 dimensional players seem to be in high demand). And nothing in the NBA is more rare than what Drummond offers, legit superstar potential - something he is showing he's capable of living up to.

    That's just it, "best" is such a subjective term. It's not just individual basketball skills that determines the "best" available player, but also attitude, potential for improvement (and ultimate projected ceiling), age, injury history, position (both scarcity of talent and team need), fit with current roster (does he need to contribute now, or can he be a multi-year project with current depth), etc...
    'Fit' or 'need' should have no relation to 'best player' - that was Alex Rucker's excuse after the draft. That Ross was the 'best fit' for this team (for a number of reasons). Best fit is not necessarily best player.

    And this isn't a criticism of Ross. Individually he's been good. But watching Drummond is like watching Dwight Howard, and knowing this team could have had that (should they have been willing to rebuild instead of attempt to win now) will end up biting it in the ass down the road

    Strangely enough Drummond should have fit into Colangelo's 'stacking principle'.

  5. #85
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Craiger, Name me one other players who has the versatility to be an elite defender, 3pt shooter, and high flyer?
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

  6. #86
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Craiger, Name me one other players who has the versatility to be an elite defender, 3pt shooter, and high flyer?
    I already made the comparison before. Shane Battier.

  7. #87
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    I already made the comparison before. Shane Battier.
    I don't think Battier was ever considered a high-flyer.

    But I agree on Drummond. He was the #1 prospect (battling back and forth with Davis) early last season. The superstar potential was definitely there.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  8. #88
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I don't think Battier was ever considered a high-flyer.

    But I agree on Drummond. He was the #1 prospect (battling back and forth with Davis) early last season. The superstar potential was definitely there.
    Bringing this back to thread topic of Andrea and tying in current discussion:

    A big issue here - right or wrong, and we all know wrong, as I was one of the biggest idiots on the subject - was the presence of Bargnani. The belief - right or wrong and, again, we all now know wrong - was Bargnani had finally cracked his potential and Casey was the coach to max his bottomless fountain of potential.

    If you look at the current roster and believe that a) Lowry is going to be the guy in Houston the last 2 years and b) Bargnani was going to be the guy he initially showed under Casey then the Raptors are a pretty good squad. Not a contender but certainly not a lottery team.

    Well, none of that worked out. Ross was the better fit. Colangelo certainly hypocrited on his best player available and stacking principle hyperbole. And the Raptors continue to try to get ahead with concrete blocks on their feet due to undesirable trade assets and/or a lack of trade assets.

    This really hits at the root of all my #tradeBargnani frustrations. I am sure it is unintentional on his part but his inconsistent and flashes of brilliance in his play has really, really has f*cked the franchise on so many levels. More importantly Colangelo has f*cked the franchise on so many levels for continually believing he is the answer.

    My answer to everything right now is:

    1) Take other teams shit for prospects and picks,
    2) #tradeBargnani
    3) #No3rdYearOption
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  9. #89
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Bringing this back to thread topic of Andrea and tying in current discussion:

    A big issue here - right or wrong, and we all know wrong, as I was one of the biggest idiots on the subject - was the presence of Bargnani. The belief - right or wrong and, again, we all now know wrong - was Bargnani had finally cracked his potential and Casey was the coach to max his bottomless fountain of potential.

    If you look at the current roster and believe that a) Lowry is going to be the guy in Houston the last 2 years and b) Bargnani was going to be the guy he initially showed under Casey then the Raptors are a pretty good squad. Not a contender but certainly not a lottery team.

    Well, none of that worked out. Ross was the better fit. Colangelo certainly hypocrited on his best player available and stacking principle hyperbole. And the Raptors continue to try to get ahead with concrete blocks on their feet due to undesirable trade assets and/or a lack of trade assets.

    This really hits at the root of all my #tradeBargnani frustrations. I am sure it is unintentional on his part but his inconsistent and flashes of brilliance in his play has really, really has f*cked the franchise on so many levels. More importantly Colangelo has f*cked the franchise on so many levels for continually believing he is the answer.

    My answer to everything right now is:

    1) Take other teams shit for prospects and picks,
    2) #tradeBargnani
    3) #No3rdYearOption
    First bold - I agree (although I'd argue having a potential superstar is the best fit of all, but thats semantics). That was, to me, always a problem with the pick. It was another indicator that a 'real rebuild' wasn't happening - that Colangelo thought the core of the team was good enough and he would draft for 'fit'.

    Bold two - spot on.

    if you dont mind me editing your list a bit

    3) #nolameduckGM(fireBCnow)
    Last edited by Craiger; Fri Jan 25th, 2013 at 09:13 AM.

  10. #90
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Detroit did what I hope Toronto can do and that was to create an area of strength for their team. A starting front court of Monroe and Drummond is a true foundation which they can build around. All that stands between those two knocking off OKC's front court as the best in the NBA are a few years of experience and development imo.

    Now if ED can add some bulk there is the possibility that he and JV could form a dominant duo themselves, but there is no matching Detroits bulk and athleticism.

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