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Thread: Are the Raptors really that bad ?

  1. #21
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    A few quick thoughts:

    - At a first glance, one would think the Raptors are better than their record indicates because they are one of the most snakebitten teams when it comes to injury in the league.

    - However, one of those injuries was to Bargnani, which cleared space for better players and actually improved the team.

    - Then again, lack of continuity is a negative, and I suspect this has impacted the team up front (JV), at the wings (LF), and the point (KL and JC).

    So overall, I suspect the record of the Raptors is roughly reflective of where they should be, or underperforming slightly: the worst average team, or the best bad team. Certainly ahead of train wrecks like the pre-Wall Wizards, but Milwaukee is just a better team top to bottom right now.

    In a weird way, the Raptors have hope, however: some of the Raptors problems vanish in the next two years by standing around and doing nothing even without draft picks, so long as they don't re-sign overpriced players to overpriced contracts as those contracts expire.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Starter knickz's Avatar
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    Quote Jkwasia wrote: View Post
    Wow this cant be Kinkz the Dribbles fan boy with a criticism of his hero i'm astonished......0.o
    then again your blaming Casey not Dribbles I guess you have taken a step at least
    i've been critical of jose before, guess you just don't read. btw, i'm a realist
    "the raptors were my fav team growing up"-kevin durant

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Rookie Beagle's Avatar
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    I tend to think the team is being handled a certain way by the coaches and management because they do care about the longer term. Last season Casey focused on defense and it showed. But he practically ignored offense and that showed too. This season seems to be sort of the opposite. Casey is still preaching defense, but it seems he is actually trying to get the offense up to snuff, and he sort of is.

    The team's defensive efficiency has dropped off a lot from last season, but I expect Casey figures he can get that back. This season is not that meaningful anyway, so why not use it to work on actual development instead of trying to win every game.

    It looks to me like even some of Casey's bizarre late-game lineup choices might actually be explained by him feeling out certain players to see if they can handle certain roles in high pressure scenarios. I think he feels very secure in his job whatever the team's record ends up as this season.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Rookie Beagle's Avatar
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    The team does need a good closer though. Lowry and Calderon are sort of capable, but they are not so great at penetrating to the rim when the defense is desperate. It is fair to say the Raps MIGHT be just one player away (a strong, tall player) from being average among the good teams. That's a lot of progress in just the short time Casey has been coach!

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    We are not Triano bad. The game is not over at half time. We are very competitive.


    If you want to go by our record, you can, but its not going to inspire the sort of fight taht will be required to beat this team.


    At the end of the night, this is a very competitive team. Those of you guys that go by record, would love the Garbajosa team, I hated that team. Knew that it was just a regular season team, that could not stand up to the 15 other teams in the post season. This team on the other hand is a good defensive team, that I feel would hand the Garbajosa team its lunch, regardless of final record.

    (as a fan, I had a great time, even during our close losses. We actually get to watch 4th quarter basketball with this team... the 4th quarter was a rare treat for us in the past, the game was usually out of hand by then, we got to see scrubs shine in the 4th.)
    Last edited by BasketballCrush; Wed Jan 23rd, 2013 at 11:17 AM.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    We are not Triano bad. The game is not over at half time. We are very competitive.


    If you want to go by our record, you can, but its not going to inspire the sort of fight taht will be required to beat this team.


    At the end of the night, this is a very competitive team. Those of you guys that go by record, would love the Garbajosa team, I hated that team. Knew that it was just a regular season team, that could not stand up to the 15 other teams in the post season. This team on the other hand is a good defensive team, that I feel would hand the Garbajosa team its lunch, regardless of final record.

    (as a fan, I had a great time, even during our close losses. We actually get to watch 4th quarter basketball with this team... the 4th quarter was a rare treat for us in the past, the game was usually out of hand by then, we got to see scrubs shine in the 4th.)
    Are you referring to the Garbojosa team of 2006-07? The same team that won a franchise-best 47 games? The same team that employed the last Raptor All-Star who demanded a double-team on every possession?

    And you think this current squad could hand that team its "lunch"?
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    Exactly, that jump shooting, no defense playing, feed it to Bosh when you are stuck team. The team that Miki Moore had his spotlight against.

    The team that did well, because most of their games were against a talentless division. The team were Rasho looked like he was again a top notch Center.

    The team that allowed Vince Carter to dagger them at the ACC in front of all their fans.
    Last edited by BasketballCrush; Wed Jan 23rd, 2013 at 11:45 AM.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    p
    Quote Reinholt wrote: View Post
    A few quick thoughts:

    - At a first glance, one would think the Raptors are better than their record indicates because they are one of the most snakebitten teams when it comes to injury in the league.

    - However, one of those injuries was to Bargnani, which cleared space for better players and actually improved the team.

    - Then again, lack of continuity is a negative, and I suspect this has impacted the team up front (JV), at the wings (LF), and the point (KL and JC).

    So overall, I suspect the record of the Raptors is roughly reflective of where they should be, or underperforming slightly: the worst average team, or the best bad team. Certainly ahead of train wrecks like the pre-Wall Wizards, but Milwaukee is just a better team top to bottom right now.

    In a weird way, the Raptors have hope, however: some of the Raptors problems vanish in the next two years by standing around and doing nothing even without draft picks, so long as they don't re-sign overpriced players to overpriced contracts as those contracts expire.
    sadly at this point in time that is the only thing we can be certain of with colangelo

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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    Exactly, that jump shooting, no defense playing, feed it to Bosh when you are stuck team. The team that Miki Moore had his spotlight against.

    The team that did well, because most of their games were against a talentless division. The team were Rasho looked like he was again a top notch Center.
    I agree that nobody should be confusing that team with a powerhouse, but this current squad is light years away from reaching that team's level of cohesion.

    As for the weak division, fair enough (although I don't buy it). The 2006-07 Raptors beat teams they were supposed to beat. We can't say that about the 2012-13 Raptors.

    I honestly can't see how these 2 teams are even comparable.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    I don't think they are comparable at all. I think the 2006 team was incredibly soft.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    I don't think they are comparable at all. I think the 2006 team was incredibly soft.
    So is the current team (mentally soft, that is)...who also happens to be a jump-shooting team.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    I don't think this bunch is a jump shooting team, we get good production out of our big men. Lots of dunks and garbage cleanup by the likes Acy and Fields, Davis and Amir.

    I see good players getting locked down. I saw Carter struggle for the first time at the ACC under this squad.


    As far as basketball is concerned, I am entertained at both ends of the floor. The 2006 team was horrible when it came to grit, it took us 5 years just to shed the soft label that other players stuck us with. Not to mention how finicky those supposed core players were and how fast they jumped ship. How quickly they pissed on this franchise so that they could feel some NT glory.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    I don't think this bunch is a jump shooting team, we get good production out of our big men. Lots of dunks and garbage cleanup by the likes Acy and Fields, Davis and Amir.

    I see good players getting locked down. I saw Carter struggle for the first time at the ACC under this squad.


    As far as basketball is concerned, I am entertained at both ends of the floor. The 2006 team was horrible when it came to grit, it took us 5 years just to shed the soft label that other players stuck us with.
    I understand that you didn't like the way the 2006-07 team played (I prefer a defense-first approach myself), but there's no mistaking that they were the better team (compared to the current squad).

    Other than Bargnani, there weren't any "young players hoping to reach their potential". Every rotation player were proven/consistent/veteran players who knew how to get the job done. The current squad, on the other hand, has trouble finding consistency in a dictionary.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    I disagree. Think this team would kill the Garbo team, with their eyes closed. I don't even think it would be much of a contest.

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    I disagree. Think this team would kill the Garbo team, with their eyes closed. I don't even think it would be much of a contest.
    At the end of the day, you can't argue with the results. A .573 winning percentage led by a 20/10 Allstar in Bosh, versus the current .366 led by Calderon.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  16. #36
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    At the end of the day, you can't argue with the results. A .573 winning percentage led by a 20/10 Allstar in Bosh, versus the current .366 led by Calderon.
    That '06-07 team had ball movement and team play that the current team can only dream about! The current team would be destroyed without a doubt. That team let the stigma of playing Carter get in their head; they should have easily coasted into the 2nd round of the playoffs (at least).

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    At the end of the day, you can't argue with the results. A .573 winning percentage led by a 20/10 Allstar in Bosh, versus the current .366 led by Calderon.
    You can focus on the record all you want, but that team overachieved and it was obvious to all, they just weren't as good as their record indicated. This team is the opposite. Somewhere they have to meet in the middle.

    Carter did not stop the Raptors that year, Miki Moore did. He shut down our franchise player when it counted. That is all we had, none of the other guys could step up when it counted.

    IMO the 2006 team was so overrated (should of been a 41-41 team, if they were in the West they would have been 37-45). That team also hid the fact that we had a horrible GM.
    Last edited by BasketballCrush; Wed Jan 23rd, 2013 at 12:37 PM.

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    To compare just the wins is silly. The Okley Carter team, did not win as much as the Garbajosa team, who do you think would come out on top? Records don't always tell the whole story, ask the Lattrell Sprewell Knicks.

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    You can focus on the record all you want, but that team overachieved and it was obvious to all, they just weren't as good as their record indicated. This team is the opposite. Somewhere they have to meet in the middle.

    Carter did not stop the Raptors that year, Miki Moore did. He shut down our franchise player when it counted. That is all we had, none of the other guys could step up when it counted.

    IMO the 2006 team was so overrated (should of been a 41-41 team, if they were in the West they would have been 37-45). That team also hid the fact that we had a horrible GM.
    Even if they were really a .500 club masquerading as a division champion, that's still faaaaar better than the current team.

    Highlighting the fact that Bosh was easy to neutralize, doesn't say anything about how bad the current team is. The current team neutralizes themselves on most nights.

    As for the Carter/Oakley team, they won 47 games too.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    Again, I disagree. Think the match up here is the real challenge for the 2006 roster. That team relied on the 3pt shot, no one was doing any work inside. Rasho was as slow as molasses.


    Against this squad, they would be toast every time. I would bet my mortgage on it. Garbajosa's cigarette smoking ass would twist an ankle. Rasho would we so exposed against our young big guys. It would not even be close. Ford would be on the floor with a spine contusion, trying to do everything himself around the basket.


    I cant see the 2006 team even getting 2 games out of a possible 7. I really can't.

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