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Thread: Raptor's mid-season grade by CnnSi...

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote Agunn wrote: View Post
    hmmmm I don't know how to post in everything bargs but just a question, say for some wild reason bargs gets back and plays like he did for those 15 games last season, and we end up sitting in 8th spot right before the deadline. what do we THE FANS want to happen, and what would you do if you were the GM.
    Trade him.

    Been down this road with:

    Bosh before trade deadline and he left for nothing, and

    Bargnani's magical ~15 games last season only to see his value now worth nothing.


    There is no questioning his talent, it is his desire to reach his full potential.
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  2. #22
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    my favorite part about Bargnani is when he picks up two fouls a game off charges. Pump fake...drive...and its a charge.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    As a fan or a GM I would be open to trading bargnani as I don't see his contribution making that much of a difference either way. We've got 4 very good role players/possible starters in Bargs/Davis/Amir/JV and there is not enough minutes for all four if they are healthy. Three of them seem to be capable two-way players, so bargs is the odd man.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    I don't want to do any more babysitting either, hope he blows up somewhere else, not sure why we always have to remind him to rebound and be interested in the game. At this stage he is taking coaching resources away from the rookies.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic All-Star enlightenment's Avatar
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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    I don't want to do any more babysitting either, hope he blows up somewhere else, not sure why we always have to remind him to rebound and be interested in the game. At this stage he is taking coaching resources away from the rookies.
    +10000000000
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Starter
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Not every other team is constructed the same as the Raptors. Another team, with a strong defensive center and good, three point shooting SF could use a player like Andrea. If you are not counting on him to carry his full load on D (and let's face it, there are lots of players who don't) and don't count on him as your primary scorer, you might be happy to trade away a player who is a spare part on your team. It doesn't matter what position the Raps get back, cause it's not about shoring up their team with whoever it is, it's about getting rid of Bargs for something. the player coming back could be part of another trade for a position of need or picks or whatever.
    +1. Like OKC for example. I was so pissed off when I saw what Presti settled for Harden. In the offseason, Bargs value was still very high, with most people still believing he was our best player. An offer for Harden with Bargs, DD, Jose & our 1st round pick that we gave up to Houston would have been considered a better deal at the time. I know it's all hindsight, but I wanted to draft Drummond as well, which meant we could have thrown JV into the deal as a offer they couldn't refuse. All of those pieces would fit perfectly on OKC. Basically, they would get 3 high=end bench players to replace their 6th man of the year + potential

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    An offer for Harden with Bargs, DD, Jose & our 1st round pick that we gave up to Houston would have been considered a better deal at the time.
    At the time, if you would have told me about this offer, I would have gathered a small posse of raptor fans and we would of cut off the internet to your house. No one knew Harden was capable of leading a franchise.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    First, perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but when I see "trading Jose is priority #1", with no qualifier of what the team gets back, I just don't understand. That seems to come across as a need to dump him no matter what, and I fail to see the sense in that. I disagree that getting "anything" is better than "nothing", because I don't see keeping him as nothing.

    As far as my point about getting something worthwhile back, let's use any legit contender as an example: a very late 2nd round pick in a weak draft is NOTHING in my books. In my opinion, the development of the young guys we have, especially the rookies, is far better served by Jose facilitating the offense even for a few extra months, than anything to be gained by adding some late 2nd round pick that will likely never sniff an NBA practice floor beyond training camp.

    Here's another thing I don't quite understand about the desire among many fans to unload Jose. There's a common opinion that he doesn't serve the future of the Raps because of his age. That's just silly. Jason Kidd, at nowhere near his abilities of the past, ran the point for Dallas to a championship, and he was 7-8 years older than Jose is now. The Knicks are contenders and they're running Kidd and a 35 year old rookie at the point. His age isn't the issue, as much as the talent around him is, and unless they can get a great piece back for him (unlikely), or unless Lowry can suddenly develop a TEAM game, Jose's the best we have to develop this young core of DD, JV, ED, Ross, and Amir (still only 25 and developing further).

    If lowry gets his "team" game together, or if they were to get back a promising young PG prospect back, or any promising prospect, I'm all for it, but I don't see simply unqualified unloading him as any kind of priority.
    If you want qualifiers for why trading Jose is priority #1, then read any of my other posts on that topic. I don't believe Jose will re-sign unless we overspend for him, which would be a terrible mistake. #1 rule in managing a franchise is that you don't let your assets walk for nothing. Jose's value is as high as it ever will be, and if we don't cash in on that, then we are failing as a franchise.

    Don't get confused, Jose is not a better basketball player than Lowry. Jose has more chemistry with Amir because he's played with him more. Jose can't and wont elevate this team from mediocrity, but Lowry could be a part of that going forward. In the Chicago game for example, Jose got multiple assists to Amir on high jumpers. Lowry got Amir the ball down low for dunks. Don't kid yourself into thinking that Lowry can't set people up.

    For Jose, it isn't an age thing, that is why he still has value. If you wait until the end of his next contract, it will be an age thing that brings down his value. I read a comment from a GM recently (3-4 weeks ago, so I can't find the link) that the biggest mistake teams make is to not trade expiring deals. If the player is worth it, you get the deal done prior to the season. If he isn't, then you make the move to get the assets to put your franchise in the best position moving forward.
    Whatever you do, do it the best you can

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