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Thread: Lowry on the Block?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic All-Star tucas's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Marcus Smart is really giving the Chad Ford's and Jonathan Givony's wood of late. He is rising faster than a tent. Ford said when all said and done he thinks he'll be top 5.

    Michael Carter-Williams is also rising fast at #8 on DraftExpress.com.

    The guy I really like is Trey Burke and he is in that 15-20 range as of now.

    Kabongo is looking early 2nd round but if he plays well, he is surely to rise when he returns.
    I also really like trey Burke, I think he'd work well here. My number 1 choice for point guard would be CJ McCollum. I've watched a lot of him at Lehigh and he's good defensively and is a great scorer. He gets overlooked a lot because Lehigh isn't a division 1 team. Not to mention he shit on Austin Rivers during march madness

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    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    well cant say im suprised.. i pointed out in the last game day thread that Lowrys body language screamed GET ME OUT OF HERE.

    guess i was right. if they move him it better be for some REAL value or im going to be pissed.

    for those who cant find the Lowry rumor..

    "Toronto is perhaps the most realistic landing spot for Gasol, given the uncertainty in the organization about whether Andrea Bargnani will ever develop into a star there. Bargnani wouldn't have to be a star in LA. He would simply have to stand at the 3-point line and make shots, a La Howard's former teammate in Orlando, Ryan Anderson. Toronto also has a point-guard problem to solve. And while Jose Calderon has frequently been mentioned as trade bait, league sources say the Raptors are far more amenable to trading Kyle Lowry, who has not made many friends in his new surroundings. The Raptors gave up a sure lottery pick for him (which Houston subsequently sent to Oklahoma City in the James Harden trade), so Gasol might be a way to salvage that transaction. Plus, with the new CBA taking effect and shortening teams' windows for winning, a team like Toronto might feel better about committing 1½ seasons to Gasol than using its cap room this summer to sign a lesser player for four years"



    "Kyle Lowry, who has quickly worn out his welcome in Toronto, could be an option for the Mavs or Hawks, who are both in need of point-guard help. With only $1 million guaranteed next season, Lowry would be a short-term fix without clogging up future cap space"
    Last edited by DoNDaDDa; Sat Jan 26th, 2013 at 09:46 AM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Quote tucas wrote: View Post
    I also really like trey Burke, I think he'd work well here. My number 1 choice for point guard would be CJ McCollum. I've watched a lot of him at Lehigh and he's good defensively and is a great scorer. He gets overlooked a lot because Lehigh isn't a division 1 team. Not to mention he shit on Austin Rivers during march madness
    Do you mean a major D-1 team, because they are NCAA D1. They have played Baylor, Pitt, VCU, and are leading their league with a recent big win over Bucknell and their first round draft prospect Mike Muscala.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Yeah, I don't know how accurate the rumors are, but I do believe pretty much everyone on the team is on the block, except JV and Ross, and to a lesser degree Ed, Amir and Demar (mostly because of his extension, teams will wait on him til next year at least to see if he keeps improving into the extension). I think JV and Ross only get traded in franchise player type deals, so that's pretty much not happening. I don't think Ed and Amir are on the block but going back to last year, if we can get a good player back and the price is one of them, it'd be hard to say no, but that player has to be better than he would've been had the trade happened last year, given Ed's improvement.

    Lowry: Was never convinced he was PG of the future, but thought he could have a chance to be. Was he worht a 1st rd pick to find out? I think so. Not saying he's a bust in Toronto, but I have a hard time seeing him as a long-term starter. The team just doesn't look as comfortable when he's out there. He's still too inconsistent. Sometimes Jose's shot doesn't drop, but he is super-consistent in how he leads the team every night. Consistency is needed more at PG than any other position.

    All that said, whether we trade Lowry, or Jose, or both...they should both be useful alone or in packages for trades. Neither are playing poorly, and the issue here in TO isn't one of not liking the PGs we have, it's about securing the position, hopefully beyond just next season.

    As for PGs of the future, at least draft-wise (assuming we have a pick)....
    -I'll pass on CJ McCollum. He's only avereaging 2.9 assts...I know LeHigh ain't exactly Kentucky, but that's dreadful. I wonder if this is a bit of a Lillard effect, but Lillard was truly the exception to the rule in terms of small school player being worth a lottery pick, and it never would have happened if the PG position was deeper in the draft. I mean, he's a shoot first combo guard who is not particularly fast or athletic....Can't see that translating great.
    -Intrigued by Carter-Williams, not just because of his size, but great vision. The concern is his scoring and D. Great size for a PG, but can he keep up? Also great size, but what's the use if you can't hit a jumper? Still, I think he's the only PG prospect I'd want in the 1st round.

    Frankly, if we end up having a pick in this draft, I'd be open to drafting a SF like Otto Porter, or Alex Poythress

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Yeah, I don't know how accurate the rumors are, but I do believe pretty much everyone on the team is on the block, except JV and Ross, and to a lesser degree Ed, Amir and Demar (mostly because of his extension, teams will wait on him til next year at least to see if he keeps improving into the extension). I think JV and Ross only get traded in franchise player type deals, so that's pretty much not happening. I don't think Ed and Amir are on the block but going back to last year, if we can get a good player back and the price is one of them, it'd be hard to say no, but that player has to be better than he would've been had the trade happened last year, given Ed's improvement.

    Lowry: Was never convinced he was PG of the future, but thought he could have a chance to be. Was he worht a 1st rd pick to find out? I think so. Not saying he's a bust in Toronto, but I have a hard time seeing him as a long-term starter. The team just doesn't look as comfortable when he's out there. He's still too inconsistent. Sometimes Jose's shot doesn't drop, but he is super-consistent in how he leads the team every night. Consistency is needed more at PG than any other position.

    All that said, whether we trade Lowry, or Jose, or both...they should both be useful alone or in packages for trades. Neither are playing poorly, and the issue here in TO isn't one of not liking the PGs we have, it's about securing the position, hopefully beyond just next season.

    As for PGs of the future, at least draft-wise (assuming we have a pick)....
    -I'll pass on CJ McCollum. He's only avereaging 2.9 assts...I know LeHigh ain't exactly Kentucky, but that's dreadful. I wonder if this is a bit of a Lillard effect, but Lillard was truly the exception to the rule in terms of small school player being worth a lottery pick, and it never would have happened if the PG position was deeper in the draft. I mean, he's a shoot first combo guard who is not particularly fast or athletic....Can't see that translating great.
    -Intrigued by Carter-Williams, not just because of his size, but great vision. The concern is his scoring and D. Great size for a PG, but can he keep up? Also great size, but what's the use if you can't hit a jumper? Still, I think he's the only PG prospect I'd want in the 1st round.

    Frankly, if we end up having a pick in this draft, I'd be open to drafting a SF like Otto Porter, or Alex Poythress
    There have been a number of great players coming from small schools. Most recent coming to mind: Steph Curry.

    As for Porter, I agree. 2 guys I like in this draft outside of the top5 are Burke and Porter.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    seems this rumor is gaining steam! its now on RealGM aswell..

    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap..._Over_Calderon

    if J.Smith was willing to sign a max extention with the Raps who would appose trading lowry in a package for JSmoove?? seems he wants max$ & has no real preferance right now as to the team..

    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...Level_Contract

    I would def. have to look at the option if i were BC..

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    seems this rumor is gaining steam! its now on RealGM aswell..

    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap..._Over_Calderon

    if J.Smith was willing to sign a max extention with the Raps who would appose trading lowry in a package for JSmoove?? seems he wants max$ & has no real preferance right now as to the team..

    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...Level_Contract

    I would def. have to look at the option if i were BC..
    I'm a very big Josh Smith fan. And while there are fair question about his decision making, his talent and diverse ability as a player just can't be ignored. He's been stiffed from all-star appearances far too much and he should have been a regular on the team for years. On top of that he's just alot of fun to watch (when he's not jacking bad shots ofcourse).

    All that said paying him a max salary, considering at the very least where this team is right now, is just a big no thank you to me.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    I'm a very big Josh Smith fan. And while there are fair question about his decision making, his talent and diverse ability as a player just can't be ignored. He's been stiffed from all-star appearances far too much and he should have been a regular on the team for years. On top of that he's just alot of fun to watch (when he's not jacking bad shots ofcourse).

    All that said paying him a max salary, considering at the very least where this team is right now, is just a big no thank you to me.
    I thought someone had hijacked your keyboard until the last sentence.

    I agree. I don't blame the guy looking for a max deal but I would hope and pray it is not Toronto giving him one. I'd rather pay Millsap $11-12M and know you aren't going to get questionable effort, poor decisions, and primadonna "I-want-to-win-now!" behaviour.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
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    I wonder if we could trade Kyle Lowry for Ricky Rubio ? Just a thought. His game is very similar to Calderon and with Joses guidance I think Rubio could do well on our team.

    Or maybe this is just history repeating itself.

    It would give us a nice young core of players though:


    Valanciunas, Derozan, Boss Davis, Ross, Rubio

    Amir Johnson, Fields,

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Ughhh, if they trade Lowry, they better get one heck of a return

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Seriously, J Smith is not a max player. I know there are always bound to be some guys who get it who don't deserve it. It's not like he's going to grow anymore as a player, and he's clearly not a #1 option, or an on-court leader (really that's Horford). What he brings is clearly valuable, but you can't build a team around him.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    There have been a number of great players coming from small schools. Most recent coming to mind: Steph Curry.

    As for Porter, I agree. 2 guys I like in this draft outside of the top5 are Burke and Porter.
    That's not really a lot of guys, considering Curry was drafted what, 4 years ago? I'm not saying it never happens, but it's quite rare. The only other year I can think of recently with some other good players, are Hayward from Butler, and he's at least a solid rotation player, and George from Fresno state, and both those guys were in the same year and a year weak with wings.

    I looked around for fun, and yeah, major schools obviously dominate the lottery, if not the whole 1st round. Going further back from Steph Curry, I saw Jason Thomspon on Sacto was from Rider (div 1 but I don't know it at all)....Stuckey went to Eastern Washington. Basically Curry, George (though I woulnd't consider Fresno as unknown as Davidson or Butler) and Lillard are special. I admit that's not bad, but again, other than Curry who had a lot of competition his year, the other guys were pretty safe picks in their drafts.

    Also I had a hard time finding such players as I went further back. I feel like no more high school draftees makes a difference.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Wolstat's tweets on the subject this afternoon have been interesting:

    Ryan Wolstat ‏@WolstatSun

    There is a split in organization between Lowry and Calderon. I find that insane based on many things
    The split is management and coaching. Casey is not a big fan of Lowry and management has been looking for a replacement for Calderon for years.


    Ryan Wolstat Ryan Wolstat ‏@WolstatSun

    My guess is either both move or just Calderon, but can't see just Lowry going, unless someone antes up for him
    Ryan Wolstat ‏@WolstatSun

    And you can call that an educated guess
    This is the first time I've seen the possibility of both being moved.... so much for the Lowry vs. Calderon debate of 2013. That would be crazy.

    There are more tweets from Wolstat. Interesting bits on Lowry's personality (asshole) and difficulty to deal with and his thoughts on the matter.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Quote Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
    Ughhh, if they trade Lowry, they better get one heck of a return
    How, his numbers are down since he lost his starting gig? If they ship him out, I'm done with this franchise. BC is such a joke.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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    Quote Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
    Ughhh, if they trade Lowry, they better get one heck of a return
    At least as much as they gave up to acquire him.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    I also think people need to chill a bit. Whether Lowry, or Jose, or both get traded, what matters most is what we get back. I don't think a move will be made just to dump either one. I also think if we can't find a good deal for Jose when he's having maybe his best year ever, and also has an expiring contract, then BC is really completely incompetent.
    Same for Lowry, even with his lower production, he's still a very talented guy on an incredibly reasonable contract. While we may have given up a lottery pick, if we can't at least get a 1st rounder, even a low one, that's pretty sad.

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Starter The Coach's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Wolstat's tweets on the subject this afternoon have been interesting:



    The split is management and coaching. Casey is not a big fan of Lowry and management has been looking for a replacement for Calderon for years.






    This is the first time I've seen the possibility of both being moved.... so much for the Lowry vs. Calderon debate of 2013. That would be crazy.

    There are more tweets from Wolstat. Interesting bits on Lowry's personality (asshole) and difficulty to deal with and his thoughts on the matter.
    Lowry reminds of Kobe in terms of attitude. The difference being that Kobe is a proven winner and so his teammates respect, and sometimes just put up with, his "in your face" bulldog mentality. If you are losing, that bit gets old very quick. Unfortunately, for Ford, Lowry and Jack the guy behind them passes out gatorades at half time and rescues orphaned puppies at night, so losing with him is a lot more acceptable (from a teammate's perspective).

  18. #38
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Wolstat's tweets on the subject this afternoon have been interesting:



    The split is management and coaching. Casey is not a big fan of Lowry and management has been looking for a replacement for Calderon for years.






    This is the first time I've seen the possibility of both being moved.... so much for the Lowry vs. Calderon debate of 2013. That would be crazy.

    There are more tweets from Wolstat. Interesting bits on Lowry's personality (asshole) and difficulty to deal with and his thoughts on the matter.
    I hope this doesn't come off as a shot at Lowry because I don't intend it to be. But, as I've stated many times in the past, he doesn't exactly have a glowing history. Between how things went in Houston last year and his assault charge after going overboard and throwing the ball at a female ref (in a meaningless game no less), he's not exactly a squeaky clean as a individual.

    But this also goes back to something Colangelo has referred to numerous times in the past (and I can't recall the exact phrasing) about wanting players with the good mind set. Whether he's right or wrong it that regard, like many things Colangelo says, it got thrown out the window when something more convient comes along.

    The one thing I like to see about management and coaching possibly being split on a player, is atleast Casey isn't folding (not saying he'll get his way in the end, but this doesn't feel like a Jay Triano situation). Makes me wonder if Colangelo's clout is trickling away....

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    That's not really a lot of guys, considering Curry was drafted what, 4 years ago? I'm not saying it never happens, but it's quite rare. The only other year I can think of recently with some other good players, are Hayward from Butler, and he's at least a solid rotation player, and George from Fresno state, and both those guys were in the same year and a year weak with wings.

    I looked around for fun, and yeah, major schools obviously dominate the lottery, if not the whole 1st round. Going further back from Steph Curry, I saw Jason Thomspon on Sacto was from Rider (div 1 but I don't know it at all)....Stuckey went to Eastern Washington. Basically Curry, George (though I woulnd't consider Fresno as unknown as Davidson or Butler) and Lillard are special. I admit that's not bad, but again, other than Curry who had a lot of competition his year, the other guys were pretty safe picks in their drafts.

    Also I had a hard time finding such players as I went further back. I feel like no more high school draftees makes a difference.
    If you look at all the players, there have been many from small schools taken in the first round that have been, or,will be solid players.

    2011 Burkes, Faried, Cole
    2010 Hayward, George, Larry Sanders, Jordan Crawford
    2009 harden,Curry, Eric Maynor
    2008 Jason Thompson, MaGee, Courtney lee, George Hill

    There are also many guys coming from non powerhouse schools in big conferences that have been selected as well.

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Wolstat's tweets on the subject this afternoon have been interesting:



    The split is management and coaching. Casey is not a big fan of Lowry and management has been looking for a replacement for Calderon for years.






    This is the first time I've seen the possibility of both being moved.... so much for the Lowry vs. Calderon debate of 2013. That would be crazy.

    There are more tweets from Wolstat. Interesting bits on Lowry's personality (asshole) and difficulty to deal with and his thoughts on the matter.
    u could tell lowry wasnt happy with somthing, he prob dont like comming off the bench..this is prob the same situation lowry had in houston with Mchale..injuries. sub par play upon return, loss of starters role, beefing with coach,= traded

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