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Thread: Casey, Lowry and Anderson

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    Ive watched this play more than a few times today after watching it live. My reaction is still the same. If a guy is going to hit a 30 ft jumper to win the game .. then so be it .. not a lot you can do. Sure, i buy that given where the clock was and the lack of movement / screens by the other players, you maybe should be a little tighter .. but again, he pulled up from 5 feet beyond the 3 pt line! I dont know the percentages off hand (im sure there is somewhere to track it) .. but I would guess this is a shot that even the best players in the league (Kyrie certainly fits in that bucket) hit 20% of the time. Ill take those odds ..
    Fair enough.

    But I personally think the talent of Kyrie Irving is being underestimated severely here and the respect he should have been given on that last play. A 2 sends the game to overtime and a 3 is game over.

    But to each his own.
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  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    I have no idea why AA didnt contest that shot Its mindboggling dude didnt listen to his coach bad awarness all around. You could hear it on the computer Casey "Close Out CLOSE OUT!" AA just stood on the line.... He let Kyrie hit a shot like he was in the gym alone.

    And Casey also drew up a full court press for that last shot AA just was on the 3 line, should have pressured Kyrie up the floor why wouldn't you? its hard to make a play under desperation. the game is on AA and Amir.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    It's the timing of the play that's at issue. Anderson clearly should have closed when he could see the clock (directly behind Irving) go down to 2 seconds. At that point, you simply close hard without fouling and hope for the best. Irving is not driving at that point. It IS exactly the same as the Jose-Lin play last year, and Jose should have closed out, too. Just a big defensive brain fart by AA that probably cost them the game.
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  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    It's the timing of the play that's at issue. Anderson clearly should have closed when he could see the clock (directly behind Irving) go down to 2 seconds. At that point, you simply close hard without fouling and hope for the best. Irving is not driving at that point. It IS exactly the same as the Jose-Lin play last year, and Jose should have closed out, too. Just a big defensive brain fart by AA that probably cost them the game.
    Kyrie had already picked up his dribble and was in to his shot with 3/3.1secs.
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  5. #25
    Raptors Republic All-Star Red and White's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    It's the timing of the play that's at issue. Anderson clearly should have closed when he could see the clock (directly behind Irving) go down to 2 seconds. At that point, you simply close hard without fouling and hope for the best. Irving is not driving at that point. It IS exactly the same as the Jose-Lin play last year, and Jose should have closed out, too. Just a big defensive brain fart by AA that probably cost them the game.
    Yeah that is something being over looked. It got to a point where Anderson has got to know that Irving is going to shoot it. It was, despite what people seem to think, a poor defensive play.

    But I think focusing on the shot so much is silly, and it is avoiding the true issue. It is not Anderson's fault we lost the game. We should not have been in that position. We start the fourth quarter up 9 against a team on a back to back and on the road. We have got to put that game away. This is a huge problem with Casey that was evident last year as well. This team, even last year, had the ability to stick with good teams until that final quarter. Casey needs to fix this. To start the fourth, we need to put our starters out there. Acy, Amir, Ross, Anderson, and Lowry is not the lineup we should be rolling with to start a fourth quarter. Whether its the two pg back court he ran a bit, or the 4 guard line up vs. the Heat, he has not shown that he knows how to coach his guys to finish a game. I like Casey, I really do, but this is a huge problem.

    You can talk about how a 30 foot three point shot is an acceptable one to allow, but what is not acceptable is blowing a lead, and then putting the ball in the hands of arguably one of the best closers in the game, and letting him decide whether we win or lose.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote Red and White wrote: View Post
    To start the fourth, we need to put our starters out there. Acy, Amir, Ross, Anderson, and Lowry is not the lineup we should be rolling with to start a fourth quarter.
    This, I agree with 100%.
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  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
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    Quote DoNDaDDa wrote: View Post
    i wouldnt go that far.. after DD game winner the other day there was still pessimism running rampant on here. not everyone watches with rosey colored glasses LOL
    I dont watch with rose goggles. but i certainly dont watch the games through a half empty glass.

    what do we expect at this point with the team??? like really

    -competitive team
    -play tough basketball
    - losses are still close (many of the losses could have been wins)
    -our team is dealing with significant injuries to 2 of our big men atm
    - we have no stars.

    the next step for us is we need a legit star on our team. When we get one some of those close games will be wins.

    Yes we should have won this game but the Cavs star player triumphed. How many games do the raptors win this year if Irving was our point guard instead of lowry. my guess, we'd already be in the top 8 in the east, set to make the playoffs playoffs

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Fair enough.

    But I personally think the talent of Kyrie Irving is being underestimated severely here and the respect he should have been given on that last play. A 2 sends the game to overtime and a 3 is game over.

    But to each his own.
    I think you've both have said it perfectly. I felt the same way after the shot fell. At first I thought "wtf was anderson doing". Then I thought about how far Irving shot from and my reaction was "wow.... I cant believe how sick Irving is".

    I'm not mad at our Raptors for it, I'm impressed with Kyrie Irving though. He made me a fan with a couple crisp spin moves, his ability to finish in traffic and a heroic 30 ft 3 pointer to win the game by a single point.

    to conclude, we need a star... where's our Kyrie Irving?

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic All-Star DoNDaDDa's Avatar
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    Quote pesterm1 wrote: View Post
    I dont watch with rose goggles. but i certainly dont watch the games through a half empty glass.

    what do we expect at this point with the team??? like really

    -competitive team
    -play tough basketball
    - losses are still close (many of the losses could have been wins)
    -our team is dealing with significant injuries to 2 of our big men atm
    - we have no stars.

    the next step for us is we need a legit star on our team. When we get one some of those close games will be wins.

    Yes we should have won this game but the Cavs star player triumphed. How many games do the raptors win this year if Irving was our point guard instead of lowry. my guess, we'd already be in the top 8 in the east, set to make the playoffs playoffs
    i wasnt suggesting u watch with rose colored glasses LOL some on here do though. I agree we need a Star.. at some point when u realize all the guys uve drafted are just GOOD role players & not Stars u need to start thinking package deal to get a star..& one still young enough to be a difference maker for years to come..easier said then done i know but at this point id say BArgs, DD wont be guys that become stars...best case sinario is 2-3 option for both..

    i read that was Kyrie's 5th game winner already too LOL for a second year player that is impressive!
    Last edited by DoNDaDDa; Sun Jan 27th, 2013 at 12:46 PM.

  10. #30
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    When the he'll is Casey going to see that jose was sharing the ball and getting players in the right spot? To keep him out for that long only to have him come in when the lead is gone is just not cool. Darn you Casey, wake the fuc up man.

    This is on you more than anyone else.

  11. #31
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    I think i have an idea why the Raps struggle so much in the 4th.

    Toronto's lineup to start the 4th tonight was Amir, Acy, AA, Ross and Lowry. Who the fuck is going to score?
    One thing that may help you here is to look at the usage rate.

    AA - 24.99%
    Lowry - 23.83%
    Ross - 20.68%
    Amir - 16.30%
    Acy - 15.90%

    http://www.hoopdata.com/advancedstat...13&gp=0&mins=0

    Total = 101.70%, a touch higher than 100%

    Assuming normal spacing for this group (and with Ross and AA on the floor, spacing should be good), everyone should be able to shoot at around the same usage rate they normally do.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    Quote Red and White wrote: View Post
    Yeah that is something being over looked. It got to a point where Anderson has got to know that Irving is going to shoot it. It was, despite what people seem to think, a poor defensive play.

    But I think focusing on the shot so much is silly, and it is avoiding the true issue. It is not Anderson's fault we lost the game. We should not have been in that position. We start the fourth quarter up 9 against a team on a back to back and on the road. We have got to put that game away. This is a huge problem with Casey that was evident last year as well. This team, even last year, had the ability to stick with good teams until that final quarter. Casey needs to fix this. To start the fourth, we need to put our starters out there. Acy, Amir, Ross, Anderson, and Lowry is not the lineup we should be rolling with to start a fourth quarter. Whether its the two pg back court he ran a bit, or the 4 guard line up vs. the Heat, he has not shown that he knows how to coach his guys to finish a game. I like Casey, I really do, but this is a huge problem.

    You can talk about how a 30 foot three point shot is an acceptable one to allow, but what is not acceptable is blowing a lead, and then putting the ball in the hands of arguably one of the best closers in the game, and letting him decide whether we win or lose.
    I never understood this argument. We were in that position. Could of should of, would of, gets us nowhere. Maybe we should realize that we will never be beating teams by 20 or double digits with this squad. In Basketball, teams go on swings one quarter you are hot, the next quarter adjustments are made, players subbed, and the other team goes on a run.

    Even with Carter it came down to that one shot. It's always going to come down to that shot. This is a mens league, pushing teams around in the 3rd and keeping a double digit lead every game is stuff that dreams are made of. I don't think its realistic.

    This is going to be the scenario for a long long time, so might as well get used to it. The Lakers deal with this, OKC deals with this. Teams take them to the last basket all the time, we did and we are the Craptors.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic All-Star Red and White's Avatar
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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    I never understood this argument. We were in that position. Could of should of, would of, gets us nowhere. Maybe we should realize that we will never be beating teams by 20 or double digits with this squad. In Basketball, teams go on swings one quarter you are hot, the next quarter adjustments are made, players subbed, and the other team goes on a run.

    Even with Carter it came down to that one shot. It's always going to come down to that shot. This is a mens league, pushing teams around in the 3rd and keeping a double digit lead every game is stuff that dreams are made of. I don't think its realistic.

    This is going to be the scenario for a long long time, so might as well get used to it. The Lakers deal with this, OKC deals with this. Teams take them to the last basket all the time, we did and we are the Craptors.
    What I am trying to say is that there is a problem with Casey's coaching. If the coaching staff had made better decisions with rotations and lineups, they could have avoided that early fourth quarter run the Cavs went on. The fact that we consistently find ourselves blowing fourth quarter leads goes a little beyond "sometimes your hot, sometimes your not", at least thats the way I see it. After a while of consistently blowing leads, you have to think that there is something wrong with the coaching. It goes beyond the talent of the players to me. It took three and a half minutes for Cleveland to erase an 11 point fourth quarter lead. I think, while partially it was them "heating up", it had a lot to do with the lineup on the floor. Casey putting Acy on Speights (four/five inch height difference) helped spark their run.

    "Could of, should of, would of gets us no where". Now, thats something I have never understood. Its about learning from mistakes. Each loss is a lesson. My concern is that Casey hasn't been able to learn from these fourth quarter losses. In the past 8 games (where the team has gone 2-6), the Raptors have been outscored in the final bracket of play 7 times (the 1 being a tie in the fourth against Brooklyn) for a total of -56 in those brackets. It gets to a point where its not the other team just "making adjustments and going on a run". The Raptors are doing something wrong to allow all these teams to get back into the game, and they need to fix it. I am not saying we should be blowing teams out, but a -56 in final brackets of the past 8 games is absurd to me. They need to change something.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    I am all for learning from the past, but this idea that you only blame the coach for the loss in the final minutes is just stupid.


    At some point you also need to give him credit for getting into that position to win, but no one ever seems to. They just ride his coat tails to the final seconds, and second guess with the benefit of hindsight.


    Some of you guys really think that the coach is the biggest improvment this team can make, LOL. I will bet, that you bring another coach in here, and you will get 70% out of these guys and never even smell the final 2 minutes.


    I know its hard to give credit, but its been a long long time, since I have seen this team be so competitive. I like how we play. We are not as talented as the players we play against and its a star driven league. There are some players you CAN'T prepare for.


    What we are seeing is that we are good, but just not good enough, that is okay with me... I see the cast we have, and that makes sense to me. A little bit at time, hopefully the more this happens, the more we will learn from the final minutes to close out games in the future. A mistake is a great thing, you get to learn from it.
    Last edited by BasketballCrush; Sun Jan 27th, 2013 at 02:12 PM.

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    Quote Red and White wrote: View Post

    "Each loss is a lesson. My concern is that Casey hasn't been able to learn from these fourth quarter losses. In the past 8 games (where the team has gone 2-6), the Raptors have been outscored in the final bracket of play 7 times (the 1 being a tie in the fourth against Brooklyn) for a total of -56 in those brackets. It gets to a point where its not the other team just "making adjustments and going on a run". The Raptors are doing something wrong to allow all these teams to get back into the game, and they need to fix it. I am not saying we should be blowing teams out, but a -56 in final brackets of the past 8 games is absurd to me. They need to change something.
    +1

    Rap of the day candidate?

    I think it comes down to coaching. So many games we're up by double digits in the 4th...only to see the opposing team take the momentum from us and eventually the game.

    Where is our coach's sense of urgency??

    He clearly ICED Demar Derozan and kept Acy and Lowry in the game too long. How can you have 1 starter in the game (Amir) to start the 4th in a close game???

    He then put back Jose, Ed and i believe DD with only 4-5 minutes left to go in the game!! Maybe Casey thinks this roster is better than it is (goes back to that depth talk at the beginning of the year).

    16 wins 28 losses - That's where we are Casey! Are the Raptors less talented than the Cavs??? Maybe it isnt a talent issue....Its about how you use the talent you have.

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic All-Star Red and White's Avatar
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    Quote BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
    I am all for learning from the past, but this idea that you only blame the coach for the loss in the final minutes is just stupid.


    At some point you also need to give him credit for getting into that position to win, but no one ever seems to. They just ride his coat tails to the final seconds, and second guess with the benefit of hindsight.


    Some of you guys really think that the coach is the biggest improvment this team can make, LOL. I will bet, that you bring another coach in here, and you will get 70% out of these guys and never even smell the final 2 minutes.


    I know its hard to give credit, but its been a long long time, since I have seen this team be so competitive. I like how we play. We are not as talented as the players we play against and its a star driven league. There are some players you CAN'T prepare for.
    I should clarify, I like Casey and think he has done very well with the talent and injuries he has had to deal with, in no way do I think "if we had another coach we would not have blown any of these leads", and I do not think this team should fire Casey. I do, however, think he has played a large role in this teams fourth quarter drownings (not to say he is the only one to blame). It is a trend that has been very prevalent over the past stretch of games, but this whole season as well. Do you not think he needs to make changes with rotations and substitutions late in games?

  17. #37
    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    So exactly what is he supposed to do? Get up on him 30ft from the bucket, and inevitably get beat? Then its Casey's fault for not putting a quick enough defender on Irving, or Anderson's fault for not respecting Irvings ability to drive.

    Irving hit a ridiculous shot to win the game. I'll take anyone in the league taking that shot over nearly any other shot possible. That was all on a great player hitting a great shot and the buzzer, and had nothing to do with any individuals raptor or their decision on defense.
    Really? i said this before, Irving is a guy that can shoot from everywhere on the floor. A 30ft wide open shot is nothing for this guy. AA should've played him TIGHT. If he gets beat off the dribble and Irving scores a 2, so what? tie game.
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  18. #38
    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
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    Something to keep in mind about rotations. Say what you will about AB and JV but they were our starters. Amir and Ed (more so Ed) have been mostly backups. They have both averaged about 35 minutes a game for the past five games. They have to come out sometime and when they do, it is not just a drop off but a precipitous drop off (gray and acy). We are paper thin up front and you can mask that for a few games but its been a month now. Not an answer but just some perspective.

  19. #39
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    We should've just fouled and let em have 2. They'd be fucked in OT and we'd blown them out. But again another stupid mistake by the raptors

  20. #40
    Raptors Republic Superstar BasketballCrush's Avatar
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    lol, that is like begging at Kyrie's feet... I don't give freebies in those situations, no AA should of been tighter, if a foul results from that, so be it.

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