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Casey, Lowry and Anderson

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  • #31
    TRex wrote: View Post
    I think i have an idea why the Raps struggle so much in the 4th.

    Toronto's lineup to start the 4th tonight was Amir, Acy, AA, Ross and Lowry. Who the fuck is going to score?
    One thing that may help you here is to look at the usage rate.

    AA - 24.99%
    Lowry - 23.83%
    Ross - 20.68%
    Amir - 16.30%
    Acy - 15.90%

    http://www.hoopdata.com/advancedstat...13&gp=0&mins=0

    Total = 101.70%, a touch higher than 100%

    Assuming normal spacing for this group (and with Ross and AA on the floor, spacing should be good), everyone should be able to shoot at around the same usage rate they normally do.

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    • #32
      Red and White wrote: View Post
      Yeah that is something being over looked. It got to a point where Anderson has got to know that Irving is going to shoot it. It was, despite what people seem to think, a poor defensive play.

      But I think focusing on the shot so much is silly, and it is avoiding the true issue. It is not Anderson's fault we lost the game. We should not have been in that position. We start the fourth quarter up 9 against a team on a back to back and on the road. We have got to put that game away. This is a huge problem with Casey that was evident last year as well. This team, even last year, had the ability to stick with good teams until that final quarter. Casey needs to fix this. To start the fourth, we need to put our starters out there. Acy, Amir, Ross, Anderson, and Lowry is not the lineup we should be rolling with to start a fourth quarter. Whether its the two pg back court he ran a bit, or the 4 guard line up vs. the Heat, he has not shown that he knows how to coach his guys to finish a game. I like Casey, I really do, but this is a huge problem.

      You can talk about how a 30 foot three point shot is an acceptable one to allow, but what is not acceptable is blowing a lead, and then putting the ball in the hands of arguably one of the best closers in the game, and letting him decide whether we win or lose.
      I never understood this argument. We were in that position. Could of should of, would of, gets us nowhere. Maybe we should realize that we will never be beating teams by 20 or double digits with this squad. In Basketball, teams go on swings one quarter you are hot, the next quarter adjustments are made, players subbed, and the other team goes on a run.

      Even with Carter it came down to that one shot. It's always going to come down to that shot. This is a mens league, pushing teams around in the 3rd and keeping a double digit lead every game is stuff that dreams are made of. I don't think its realistic.

      This is going to be the scenario for a long long time, so might as well get used to it. The Lakers deal with this, OKC deals with this. Teams take them to the last basket all the time, we did and we are the Craptors.

      Comment


      • #33
        BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
        I never understood this argument. We were in that position. Could of should of, would of, gets us nowhere. Maybe we should realize that we will never be beating teams by 20 or double digits with this squad. In Basketball, teams go on swings one quarter you are hot, the next quarter adjustments are made, players subbed, and the other team goes on a run.

        Even with Carter it came down to that one shot. It's always going to come down to that shot. This is a mens league, pushing teams around in the 3rd and keeping a double digit lead every game is stuff that dreams are made of. I don't think its realistic.

        This is going to be the scenario for a long long time, so might as well get used to it. The Lakers deal with this, OKC deals with this. Teams take them to the last basket all the time, we did and we are the Craptors.
        What I am trying to say is that there is a problem with Casey's coaching. If the coaching staff had made better decisions with rotations and lineups, they could have avoided that early fourth quarter run the Cavs went on. The fact that we consistently find ourselves blowing fourth quarter leads goes a little beyond "sometimes your hot, sometimes your not", at least thats the way I see it. After a while of consistently blowing leads, you have to think that there is something wrong with the coaching. It goes beyond the talent of the players to me. It took three and a half minutes for Cleveland to erase an 11 point fourth quarter lead. I think, while partially it was them "heating up", it had a lot to do with the lineup on the floor. Casey putting Acy on Speights (four/five inch height difference) helped spark their run.

        "Could of, should of, would of gets us no where". Now, thats something I have never understood. Its about learning from mistakes. Each loss is a lesson. My concern is that Casey hasn't been able to learn from these fourth quarter losses. In the past 8 games (where the team has gone 2-6), the Raptors have been outscored in the final bracket of play 7 times (the 1 being a tie in the fourth against Brooklyn) for a total of -56 in those brackets. It gets to a point where its not the other team just "making adjustments and going on a run". The Raptors are doing something wrong to allow all these teams to get back into the game, and they need to fix it. I am not saying we should be blowing teams out, but a -56 in final brackets of the past 8 games is absurd to me. They need to change something.

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        • #34
          I am all for learning from the past, but this idea that you only blame the coach for the loss in the final minutes is just stupid.


          At some point you also need to give him credit for getting into that position to win, but no one ever seems to. They just ride his coat tails to the final seconds, and second guess with the benefit of hindsight.


          Some of you guys really think that the coach is the biggest improvment this team can make, LOL. I will bet, that you bring another coach in here, and you will get 70% out of these guys and never even smell the final 2 minutes.


          I know its hard to give credit, but its been a long long time, since I have seen this team be so competitive. I like how we play. We are not as talented as the players we play against and its a star driven league. There are some players you CAN'T prepare for.


          What we are seeing is that we are good, but just not good enough, that is okay with me... I see the cast we have, and that makes sense to me. A little bit at time, hopefully the more this happens, the more we will learn from the final minutes to close out games in the future. A mistake is a great thing, you get to learn from it.
          Last edited by BasketballCrush; Sun Jan 27, 2013, 03:12 PM.

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          • #35
            Red and White wrote: View Post

            "Each loss is a lesson. My concern is that Casey hasn't been able to learn from these fourth quarter losses. In the past 8 games (where the team has gone 2-6), the Raptors have been outscored in the final bracket of play 7 times (the 1 being a tie in the fourth against Brooklyn) for a total of -56 in those brackets. It gets to a point where its not the other team just "making adjustments and going on a run". The Raptors are doing something wrong to allow all these teams to get back into the game, and they need to fix it. I am not saying we should be blowing teams out, but a -56 in final brackets of the past 8 games is absurd to me. They need to change something.
            +1

            Rap of the day candidate?

            I think it comes down to coaching. So many games we're up by double digits in the 4th...only to see the opposing team take the momentum from us and eventually the game.

            Where is our coach's sense of urgency??

            He clearly ICED Demar Derozan and kept Acy and Lowry in the game too long. How can you have 1 starter in the game (Amir) to start the 4th in a close game???

            He then put back Jose, Ed and i believe DD with only 4-5 minutes left to go in the game!! Maybe Casey thinks this roster is better than it is (goes back to that depth talk at the beginning of the year).

            16 wins 28 losses - That's where we are Casey! Are the Raptors less talented than the Cavs??? Maybe it isnt a talent issue....Its about how you use the talent you have.

            Comment


            • #36
              BasketballCrush wrote: View Post
              I am all for learning from the past, but this idea that you only blame the coach for the loss in the final minutes is just stupid.


              At some point you also need to give him credit for getting into that position to win, but no one ever seems to. They just ride his coat tails to the final seconds, and second guess with the benefit of hindsight.


              Some of you guys really think that the coach is the biggest improvment this team can make, LOL. I will bet, that you bring another coach in here, and you will get 70% out of these guys and never even smell the final 2 minutes.


              I know its hard to give credit, but its been a long long time, since I have seen this team be so competitive. I like how we play. We are not as talented as the players we play against and its a star driven league. There are some players you CAN'T prepare for.
              I should clarify, I like Casey and think he has done very well with the talent and injuries he has had to deal with, in no way do I think "if we had another coach we would not have blown any of these leads", and I do not think this team should fire Casey. I do, however, think he has played a large role in this teams fourth quarter drownings (not to say he is the only one to blame). It is a trend that has been very prevalent over the past stretch of games, but this whole season as well. Do you not think he needs to make changes with rotations and substitutions late in games?

              Comment


              • #37
                Craiger wrote: View Post
                So exactly what is he supposed to do? Get up on him 30ft from the bucket, and inevitably get beat? Then its Casey's fault for not putting a quick enough defender on Irving, or Anderson's fault for not respecting Irvings ability to drive.

                Irving hit a ridiculous shot to win the game. I'll take anyone in the league taking that shot over nearly any other shot possible. That was all on a great player hitting a great shot and the buzzer, and had nothing to do with any individuals raptor or their decision on defense.
                Really? i said this before, Irving is a guy that can shoot from everywhere on the floor. A 30ft wide open shot is nothing for this guy. AA should've played him TIGHT. If he gets beat off the dribble and Irving scores a 2, so what? tie game.
                Mamba Mentality

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                • #38
                  Something to keep in mind about rotations. Say what you will about AB and JV but they were our starters. Amir and Ed (more so Ed) have been mostly backups. They have both averaged about 35 minutes a game for the past five games. They have to come out sometime and when they do, it is not just a drop off but a precipitous drop off (gray and acy). We are paper thin up front and you can mask that for a few games but its been a month now. Not an answer but just some perspective.

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                  • #39
                    We should've just fouled and let em have 2. They'd be fucked in OT and we'd blown them out. But again another stupid mistake by the raptors

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                    • #40
                      lol, that is like begging at Kyrie's feet... I don't give freebies in those situations, no AA should of been tighter, if a foul results from that, so be it.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                        The sky isn't falling man. Just pointing out that it wasn't just Irving hit a big shot...he was given the shot. I would definitely be a bit less upset if we, you know, actually defended the last possession. He hit a big shot, but not a tough shot.
                        Good point. I agree with your basic point here. I don't feel that a shot from 5 feet beyond the arc is an easy shot, but if you are going to something up, especially in a short shot clock situation give up the tie, not the dagger. I thought Anderson was doing the right thing at first but as the clock wound down, he should have stepped up to contest a bit. Live and learn.

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                        • #42
                          The bottom line is that play should have never happened because again we threw away a 10+ point lead. They need to fix that. Giving up this many 4th quarter leads is on Casey. I don't like his player rotations. Sure he has some injuries to deal with but his insistence of always having AA out there with less than 6minutes to go pisses me off. AA is obviously playing for a career out there, not for the team and it is obvious.

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                          • #43
                            special1 wrote: View Post
                            +1

                            Rap of the day candidate?

                            I think it comes down to coaching. So many games we're up by double digits in the 4th...only to see the opposing team take the momentum from us and eventually the game.

                            Where is our coach's sense of urgency??

                            He clearly ICED Demar Derozan and kept Acy and Lowry in the game too long. How can you have 1 starter in the game (Amir) to start the 4th in a close game???

                            He then put back Jose, Ed and i believe DD with only 4-5 minutes left to go in the game!! Maybe Casey thinks this roster is better than it is (goes back to that depth talk at the beginning of the year).

                            16 wins 28 losses - That's where we are Casey! Are the Raptors less talented than the Cavs??? Maybe it isnt a talent issue....Its about how you use the talent you have.
                            This is all well and good, but if Casey coached the way you are suggesting the same 5 players would be on the court all game. It simply doesn't work that way. One of our supposed strengths is that we don't have a big drop off from starters to bench. I don't know if that's true, but in an 82 game season guys need to rest and if they don't need it they are not playing hard enough.

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                            • #44
                              Pill wrote: View Post
                              The bottom line is that play should have never happened because again we threw away a 10+ point lead. They need to fix that. Giving up this many 4th quarter leads is on Casey. I don't like his player rotations. Sure he has some injuries to deal with but his insistence of always having AA out there with less than 6minutes to go pisses me off. AA is obviously playing for a career out there, not for the team and it is obvious.
                              And multiple times!

                              This is the problem.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                1. We all know at this point that Demar Derozan is a streaky player and is therefore very liable to go cold. So why is Casey keeping him off the court for 10 minutes at a time? If you're that worried about his minutes, don't play him for the entire 1st quarter, put on the backups and take which ever one is playing poorly off after 3-4 mins and put demar back in before he goes cold. Same thing happened in the bulls game, Demar starts off hot, doesn't play for a while and shits the bed for the rest of the game.
                                2. Who the hell is Alan Anderson to be getting iso situations? I like him as a 3pt shooter and defender, that's it. I'd rather Ross, a rookie get the opportunity to go iso. BTW last night Alan Anderson was 3/9 at the half and still being allowed to go iso.
                                3. It was obvious that Lowry needed to get out of there way before he was taken out. Jose, at this point, is just more in sync with the rest of the team. This has happened several times this year and it's losing us games. By the time Jose was back in, Kyrie had gotten way too hot to contain and Cleveland had all the momentum.

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